Wake-up call... 10-2 is not acceptible. Gilroy -5, Vernace, Pyett and Collins are career AHLers at best, only Sam Klassen manages to be +1 in 10-2 rout LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
As an AHL player, sure. None of them are sure things as NHL players. Bourque is a bust though.
Anyway, no sense crying over spilled milk. JAM didn't want to sign here, so what can you do?
He was an 80th overall pick. How many 80th overall picks make the NHL, they are not considered busts. He will be a serviceable player in the AHL for us.
Oh yea, and he's 21 and playing in his second pro season.
He was an 80th overall pick. How many 80th overall picks make the NHL, they are not considered busts. He will be a serviceable player in the AHL for us.
Oh yea, and he's 21 and playing in his second pro season.
Bust as in he has no NHL future. Certainly it's not a huge deal for a third round pick to never make it. That wasn't what my statement implied.
I don't care if he's 21 and in his second season. He's frail, injury prone and neither big nor strong enough to be more than a role player at the AHL level. That's all well and good and not without a level of value. I just get tired of people including Bourque in the discussion of legitimate prospects (i.e. Thomas, Audy-Marchessault, Hrivik to a degree, etc). He has mush for brains and will be out of the organization in a year or two.
Bust as in he has no NHL future. Certainly it's not a huge deal for a third round pick to never make it. That wasn't what my statement implied.
I don't care if he's 21 and in his second season. He's frail, injury prone and neither big nor strong enough to be more than a role player at the AHL level. That's all well and good and not without a level of value. I just get tired of people including Bourque in the discussion of legitimate prospects (i.e. Thomas, Audy-Marchessault, Hrivik to a degree, etc). He has mush for brains and will be out of the organization in a year or two.
That's not really the definition of a bust unless your a first round draft pick where you are expected to make the NHL level. 3rd rounders aren't really expected to make the NHL.
If Bourque wasn't good enough to play at the pro level, or just the at a low pro level and went overseas, then I could agree with you he might be a bust.
That's not really the definition of a bust unless your a first round draft pick where you are expected to make the NHL level. 3rd rounders aren't really expected to make the NHL.
If Bourque wasn't good enough to play at the pro level, or just the at a low pro level and went overseas, then I could agree with you he might be a bust.
I'm not going to argue semantics over the word bust. I stand by what I said.
I'm not going to argue semantics over the word bust. I stand by what I said.
Thats fine, just curious, that must mean you consider every single player in the AHL a bust aside from about 10% of the players who will make the NHL on a full time basis?
Thats fine, just curious, that must mean you consider every single player in the AHL a bust aside from about 10% of the players who will make the NHL on a full time basis?
From a NHL perspective, what's wrong with that? If you draft a player with the hopes that he makes an impact in the NHL, and he doesn't, then he's still a NHL bust even if he turns out to be a very good AHL player.
A bust doesn't have to mean a high pick with big expectations
Thats fine, just curious, that must mean you consider every single player in the AHL a bust aside from about 10% of the players who will make the NHL on a full time basis?
A player selected in the third round of the average NHL draft has about a 10-15% success rate as far as becoming an NHL regular. It's certainly no massive failing if a player picked 80th overall never amounts to anything other than an AHL role player. However, from my perspective, it still amounts to a failed draft pick. Ryan Bourque wasn't drafted to become a bottom-six AHL player, he was drafted to become a bottom-six NHL player.
Like successes, failures come in different magnitudes. Failing on the 80th pick in the draft is less damaging than failing on Hugh Jessiman. One pick is expected to perform, whereas the other is largely a shot in the dark. Regardless, that the magnitude of the failure is smaller doesn't somehow alter the fact that it is still a failure.
The popular label "boom-or-bust prospect" isn't reserved for players drafted in the first round. You take a flier on a guy like Bourque knowing that if things break right, you have a mini-Ryan Callahan. If things go wrong--if he busts!--you have a concussed pile of mediocrity. Bourque appears to have busted.
To answer your question directly--many career AHL players are busts in the sense that they were failed NHL draft picks. That's it. Many of these busts are still fine players in their own right, succeeding in one of the most competitive hockey leagues in the world. I would never dispute that.
Failed third round pick = draft bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
From a NHL perspective, what's wrong with that? If you draft a player with the hopes that he makes an impact in the NHL, and he doesn't, then he's still a NHL bust even if he turns out to be a very good AHL player.
A bust doesn't have to mean a high pick with big expectations
And Lev makes my point in about 500 fewer words, LOL.
The Rangers aren't spending 3rd round picks on players that they hope will become full-time AHLers. They select kids they hope will be NHLers someday. I highly doubt they'd be thrilled if Bourque ended up as the next Corey Locke.
Bust as in he has no NHL future. Certainly it's not a huge deal for a third round pick to never make it. That wasn't what my statement implied.
I don't care if he's 21 and in his second season. He's frail, injury prone and neither big nor strong enough to be more than a role player at the AHL level. That's all well and good and not without a level of value. I just get tired of people including Bourque in the discussion of legitimate prospects (i.e. Thomas, Audy-Marchessault, Hrivik to a degree, etc). He has mush for brains and will be out of the organization in a year or two.
I'd give him a second pro year before throwing him out entirely. He already looks improved this season. Not saying he has any sort of incredible career in his future, but damn, there really is no point in labeling him as anything right now.
I'd give him a second pro year before throwing him out entirely. He already looks improved this season. Not saying he has any sort of incredible career in his future, but damn, there really is no point in labeling him as anything right now.
Eh, how I label him has no bearing on his development, so what's the harm?
He's an extremely small forward that is a plus skater and energetic, but doesn't do anything else notable. He's already dealing with concussions and struggled with physical play as far back as his QMJHL days. That doesn't bode well for him as a professional. I just don't see anything that indicates he'll be anything more than a career AHL energy guy. That's fine for him personally, but it's not something that excites me as a Rangers fan.
Bourque should have gone the college route and stayed for (4) years. That would have been the better development path for him. For that reason, while I don't like his current development path, I will reserve judgement until the end of this year which would have been his senior season in NCAA's.
Dylan McIlrath has been the Whale's best defenseman this season. 'Nuff said. The rest is just brutal and make Redden look like a superstar in the AHL... BRUTAL. Even during the winning streak, the Whale D scared the !@%" outta me. In over 20 years of watching hockey, I think I never covered my eyes in a certain situation until this year's Whale defense showed up.
I am a senior at SUNY Oneonta and met a few of my friends from SUNY Albany at the game. Talbot was simply unreal tonight, stole that game from Albany! The Devils did hit 3 or 4 posts though, but he made 44? saves and was 5 for 5 on the shootout, unreal.
After the game, me and my friends went down to the team bus and got pics with everyone...except for Chris Kreider. Everyone was very friendly, even Adam Henqique after telling him that I hate him for the game winner in the playoffs.
There were about 10 to 15 people waiting outside including a mom and her autistic son, who got a broken stick from Chris before the game. Kreider was the last one out and he immediately tried to go around the bus so no one could reach him. The mom chased after him asking to sign the stick, which he did AFTER chasing him down. We all were waiting for him at the front of the bus and he kept his head down, he signs one puck and says "there are too many of you" and got on the bus and away it left. After seeing all the class acts (Borque, Coach Buke, Thomas, Miller, Newbury, Hrivik, Talbot, the whole team was very friendly and seemed appreciative of the fans waiting) it was really a sad ending to a great night. I am not sure if it was him being bitter over his 4 penalties, but the way Kreider acted was just unprofessional towards his fans. I was even wearing my Kreider jersey (as were others) and he couldn't give us the time of day. I hope this was just a one night thing and his "fame" isn't getting to his head
I was fortunately that one puck lol. I saw you there. I was the other guy with the Kreider jersey on. Was there with my 2 Devil fan friends. Besides the bad night for him, I'm pretty sure he walked out with his family so I guess thats why he took so long to come out. You're right though, everyone else was really top notch. The Devil players were great, too. I didnt see Thomas come out, which I was pretty disappointed about.
Dylan McIlrath has been the Whale's best defenseman this season. 'Nuff said. The rest is just brutal and make Redden look like a superstar in the AHL... BRUTAL. Even during the winning streak, the Whale D scared the !@%" outta me. In over 20 years of watching hockey, I think I never covered my eyes in a certain situation until this year's Whale defense showed up.
The Rangers aren't spending 3rd round picks on players that they hope will become full-time AHLers. They select kids they hope will be NHLers someday. I highly doubt they'd be thrilled if Bourque ended up as the next Corey Locke.
Of course they hope all of their picks will be NHLers someday, but that doesn't happen, and they know that. By the time you hit the 3rd round you up to the longshots. So yes, I think they would be thrilled if they a PPG player in the AHL. The Whale team may not be as important as the Rangers(obviously), but they still want good players down their so there is a winning environment for other prospects we draft later on.
Anyway, we all have a different definition of a bust, but IMO a bust is a player who had good potential to be a NHL regular player, and did not live up to that. Not every single draftee who did not make the NHL. Again just my opinion, don't kill me!
Of course they hope all of their picks will be NHLers someday, but that doesn't happen, and they know that. By the time you hit the 3rd round you up to the longshots. So yes, I think they would be thrilled if they a PPG player in the AHL. The Whale team may not be as important as the Rangers(obviously), but they still want good players down their so there is a winning environment for other prospects we draft later on.
Anyway, we all have a different definition of a bust, but IMO a bust is a player who had good potential to be a NHL regular player, and did not live up to that. Not every single draftee who did not make the NHL. Again just my opinion, don't kill me!
so i guess the Rangers considered Callahan a longshot to make it when they picked him in the 4th round.. and Girardi was a longshot since he never got drafted. Red Wings had some good long shot picks in Zetterberg and Datsyuk. its all about scouting and player development...
so i guess the Rangers considered Callahan a longshot to make it when they picked him in the 4th round.. and Girardi was a longshot since he never got drafted. Red Wings had some good long shot picks in Zetterberg and Datsyuk. its all about scouting and player development...
well...yeah, they WERE longshots to make the NHL let alone be impact NHL'ers
so i guess the Rangers considered Callahan a longshot to make it when they picked him in the 4th round.. and Girardi was a longshot since he never got drafted. Red Wings had some good long shot picks in Zetterberg and Datsyuk. its all about scouting and player development...
