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If the season is wiped out - Lupul, Bozak, Conolly etc are UFA's

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11-05-2012, 09:34 PM
  #101
4evaBlue
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
MacArthur is so underrated on these boards. High hockey IQ, good playmaker, not a bad goal scorer, decent toughness and two way play. Solid 2nd line winger, or an excellent 3rd line winger. He's not exactly old either, he's 27. No need to let him walk just to make room for AHLers, we should absolutely re-sign him as long as he's willing to sign a reasonable contract. He'll be a quality contributor for us, and if younger guys truly play well enough to take his spot, then he can be dealt for a decent return.
He's an average 2nd liner, and outside his offense, he doesn't really bring anything else to a "shutdown"/checking 3rd line. He's been a useful player for us for these past few seasons, but acquiring/developing some real top 6 quality players (preferably with some size and/or grit) will easily make him expendable.

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11-05-2012, 09:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
It's not that hard to find a player as good as Bozak.
A good faceoff center with decent speed, defensive ability, and a bit of grit, who has chemistry with pretty much every player on the team, and is able to play on all 4 lines without looking out of place? There are centers like that on some teams, but most of those teams aren't dumb enough to get rid of them.

I'd be content with Bozak and McClement (depends on how he pans out) as our bottom 6 centers going forward.

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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
If Bozak plays in a 3C role, he would be one of our top PKers. His PK stats are deflated because of the amount of time he spent 5 on 5 and on the PP on the first line
Agreed.

On another note, I was a bit surprised to see how bad Crabb was at shot blocking, considering how much PK time he was getting.

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11-05-2012, 10:16 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
lmao.. because we've had so many players step in and bump Bozak to this point? Connolly? Lombardi? Kadri? Grabovski? I dont think you actually understand the value Bozak brings to Toronto.
He's over-rated, and thus far Kessel has proven to be productive with any center we can throw his way...because he kind of makes things happen all on his own.

I still say you could ship Bozak and find an easy replacement. People just like him because he was a free wallet, who like a lot of free wallets had a lot of hype and failed to be the impact player we thought he would be.

I don't think he's worth a multi-million dollar contract. Not when, I think he's easily replaceable. He's just a slight better version of Stajan.

I think Lupul is far more valuable to Kessel and this team than any of the other players are. Start saving money wisely...enough dumb contracts that handcuff the team, make trades more unlikely, kill roster space and take time away from another kid who could probably do an equal job.

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11-05-2012, 10:24 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
He's over-rated, and thus far Kessel has proven to be productive with any center we can throw his way...because he kind of makes things happen all on his own.

I still say you could ship Bozak and find an easy replacement. People just like him because he was a free wallet, who like a lot of free wallets had a lot of hype and failed to be the impact player we thought he would be.

I don't think he's worth a multi-million dollar contract. Not when, I think he's easily replaceable. He's just a slight better version of Stajan.

I think Lupul is far more valuable to Kessel and this team than any of the other players are. Start saving money wisely...enough dumb contracts that handcuff the team, make trades more unlikely, kill roster space and take time away from another kid who could probably do an equal job.
Put the X-Box controller down, and stop dreaming about building a team built full of impact players.

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11-05-2012, 10:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Pretty much my call on this as well. Lupul might be hard contract as he is comming off a what may have been a breakthrough season or may have been a blip. I trust that Burke will not overspend if he asks for the moon though. Bozak would be a good third line center to keep and if he does not ask for too much MacArthur is a good depth scorer to have on the team.
I love how so many people call MacArthur a "depth player". Let's face it, clarke macarthur wouldn't be out of place on any team in the NHL's second line.

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11-05-2012, 10:32 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Put the X-Box controller down, and stop dreaming about building a team built full of impact players.
Well if you look we're starting to get that. God willing these guys reach close to their potential.

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11-05-2012, 10:34 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
He's over-rated, and thus far Kessel has proven to be productive with any center we can throw his way...because he kind of makes things happen all on his own.

I still say you could ship Bozak and find an easy replacement. People just like him because he was a free wallet, who like a lot of free wallets had a lot of hype and failed to be the impact player we thought he would be.

I don't think he's worth a multi-million dollar contract. Not when, I think he's easily replaceable. He's just a slight better version of Stajan.

I think Lupul is far more valuable to Kessel and this team than any of the other players are. Start saving money wisely...enough dumb contracts that handcuff the team, make trades more unlikely, kill roster space and take time away from another kid who could probably do an equal job.
I agree with you on the stajan and bozak comparison. Only difference is Bozak was not our 2nd round pick and we did not waste years developing him....

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11-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Randy8706 View Post
I love how so many people call MacArthur a "depth player". Let's face it, clarke macarthur wouldn't be out of place on any team in the NHL's second line.
Maybe not, but a lot of NHL teams have better 2nd liners than him, players who bring more to the table than just what shows up on the scoresheet. Is he a heavy hitter? Can he scrap? Is he great at puck recovery along the boards? Is he a good PKer? Does he sacrifice his body for the team by blocking tons of shots? Does he screen goalies, and park in front of the net for rebounds? Is he a shootout specialist? Can he play the point on the PP? Is he a defensive wizard? Does he constantly get under opponents' skin? Is he an intimidating presence on the ice? Is he good at faceoffs for when the center gets waived out? Give me something. Anything.

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11-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Randy8706 View Post
I agree with you on the stajan and bozak comparison. Only difference is Bozak was not our 2nd round pick and we did not waste years developing him....
Ya and Bozak isn't getting 4M to play on the 4th line.

These non-elite players are assets. Time people started realising this.

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11-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Maybe not, but a lot of NHL teams have better 2nd liners than him, players who bring more to the table than just what shows up on the scoresheet. Is he a heavy hitter? Can he scrap? Is he great at puck recovery along the boards? Is he a good PKer? Does he sacrifice his body for the team by blocking tons of shots? Does he screen goalies, and park in front of the net for rebounds? Is he a shootout specialist? Can he play the point on the PP? Is he a defensive wizard? Does he constantly get under opponents' skin? Is he an intimidating presence on the ice? Give me something. Anything.
He seems to touch the puck a lot right before it goes in the net.

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11-05-2012, 10:50 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Maybe not, but a lot of NHL teams have better 2nd liners than him, players who bring more to the table than just what shows up on the scoresheet. Is he a heavy hitter? Can he scrap? Is he great at puck recovery along the boards? Is he a good PKer? Does he sacrifice his body for the team by blocking tons of shots? Does he screen goalies, and park in front of the net for rebounds? Is he a shootout specialist? Can he play the point on the PP? Is he a defensive wizard? Does he constantly get under opponents' skin? Is he an intimidating presence on the ice? Is he good at faceoffs for when the center gets waived out? Give me something. Anything.
Hard worker, can make plays, sometimes plays with an edge,sticks up for teammates. can move up and down the line up as required, scores goals, decent defensively. Seems to bring a bit of a veteren presence.

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11-05-2012, 10:59 PM
  #112
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You can usually tell if its a fluke. Guys who fluke it will score a ton of flukey goals, like unintentional deflections and what not. Lupul's play was solid on both ends. Re-Sign him !

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11-05-2012, 11:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Randy8706 View Post
Hard worker, can make plays, sometimes plays with an edge,sticks up for teammates. can move up and down the line up as required, scores goals, decent defensively. Seems to bring a bit of a veteren presence.
As a proposed 2nd liner, he can't really move up the lineup, only down.

The whole sometimes sticks up for teammates (ragdolling LaRose, is there even another example of this from his two seasons with us?), sometimes plays with an edge, hard worker, etc can be said about 90% of the NHL players.

Neither Carlyle and Wilson trusted him enough to put him out for more than one shift on the PK all season long. Can you think of an outstanding defensive play that he's made over the last two seasons? You know, like, remember when Brent blocked 3 E. Staal shots from the point on the same 5 on 3 PK? Broke up a partial breakaway by Iginla that resulted in a rush the opposite way, on which Kessel managed to capitalize (without Bozak even getting an assist)?

He's an all right playmaker (better than Kulemin and Grabo, at any rate), but not really anything special that would make me say: "Ok, he doesn't have any intangibles, but he's such a good playmaker that I would love to keep him around."

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11-05-2012, 11:20 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by DionPhaneuf3 View Post
You can usually tell if its a fluke. Guys who fluke it will score a ton of flukey goals, like unintentional deflections and what not. Lupul's play was solid on both ends. Re-Sign him !
Comments like that always remind me of this goal. Great composure, good handeye.


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11-05-2012, 11:33 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
As a proposed 2nd liner, he can't really move up the lineup, only down.

The whole sometimes sticks up for teammates (ragdolling LaRose, is there even another example of this from his two seasons with us?), sometimes plays with an edge, hard worker, etc can be said about 90% of the NHL players.

Neither Carlyle and Wilson trusted him enough to put him out for more than one shift on the PK all season long. Can you think of an outstanding defensive play that he's made over the last two seasons? You know, like, remember when Brent blocked 3 E. Staal shots from the point on the same 5 on 3 PK? Broke up a partial breakaway by Iginla that resulted in a rush the opposite way, on which Kessel managed to capitalize (without Bozak even getting an assist)?

He's an all right playmaker (better than Kulemin and Grabo, at any rate), but not really anything special that would make me say: "Ok, he doesn't have any intangibles, but he's such a good playmaker that I would love to keep him around."
I disagree. I say *if* he was thrown on the first line with let's say grabo and kessel he could more than pull his own weight. Just like he could fit well in a second or a third line role as well. How quick people are to forget how potent of a line Macarthur Grabo Kulemin was..

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11-05-2012, 11:39 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Randy8706 View Post
I disagree. I say *if* he was thrown on the first line with let's say grabo and kessel he could more than pull his own weight. Just like he could fit well in a second or a third line role as well. How quick people are to forget how potent of a line Macarthur Grabo Kulemin was..
If you thought the Lupul-Bozak-Kessel line was bad defensively, you haven't seen anything till you see that proposed line combo. So, how's going to retrieve the puck? Who will provide net traffic, or go for the rebounds? I'm not even going to bother asking who will stake back to try to negate all the breakaways. We all know the answer.

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11-05-2012, 11:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
If you thought the Lupul-Bozak-Kessel line was bad defensively, you haven't seen anything till you see that proposed line combo. So, how's going to retrieve the puck? Who will provide net traffic, or go for the rebounds? I'm not even going to bother asking who will stake back to try to negate all the breakaways. We all know the answer.
Don't get me wrong. I think mac is very close to becoming expendable due to our group of good young wingers. But the guy is a very solid player at the nhl level and I just don't get the hate for him in general.

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11-06-2012, 12:12 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
We need size / grit in the top 6, not in the bottom 6. Colborne could become an ideal replacement for Grabo, and grealy help our top 6's size by removing the smurfiest player. Similarly, Mac has no room in the top 6, either.

Kulemin (6'1", 225 lbs, 1.4 hits/game) - Bozak (6'1", 195 lbs, 1.6 hits/game) - Frattin (6'1", 200 lbs, 1.4 hits/game) shouldn't be a bad 3rd line. Bit of sand paper, decent size, and we have a pretty defensively responsible line (if Frattin can get his defensive game together) who can pitch in with some production.
Frattin is not 6'1.

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11-06-2012, 12:17 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Randy8706 View Post
Don't get me wrong. I think mac is very close to becoming expendable due to our group of good young wingers. But the guy is a very solid player at the nhl level and I just don't get the hate for him in general.
It's not hate. I appreciate what he's done for the team, and I do believe his playmaking was partially the key to their magical season of two years ago. I also think that parting ways with him before the start of next year's season is preferable to signing him to a 2 year term (I seriously doubt he'll take a 1 year deal). If he had some decent intangibles, like a Mike Brown with MacArthur's skillset, I'd love to keep him around.

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Frattin is not 6'1.
Right you are, thx for the correction. I must have looked at the wrong row . He's only 6'0", but the weight is right.


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 11-06-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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11-06-2012, 12:18 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
He's over-rated, and thus far Kessel has proven to be productive with any center we can throw his way...because he kind of makes things happen all on his own.

I still say you could ship Bozak and find an easy replacement. People just like him because he was a free wallet, who like a lot of free wallets had a lot of hype and failed to be the impact player we thought he would be.

I don't think he's worth a multi-million dollar contract. Not when, I think he's easily replaceable. He's just a slight better version of Stajan.

I think Lupul is far more valuable to Kessel and this team than any of the other players are. Start saving money wisely...enough dumb contracts that handcuff the team, make trades more unlikely, kill roster space and take time away from another kid who could probably do an equal job.
Remind me again how he looked with Tim Connolly, the guy with more experience, and better pure skills.

Give me one good name who is more competent than Bozak in a 3rd line role that would be available next year at a similar price

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11-06-2012, 12:37 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
It's not hate. I appreciate what he's done for the team, and I do believe his playmaking was partially the key to their magical season of two years ago. I also think that parting ways with him before the start of next year's season is preferable to signing him to a 2 year term (I seriously doubt he'll take a 1 year deal). If he had some decent intangibles, like a Mike Brown with MacArthur's skillset, I'd love to keep him around.



Right you are, thx for the correction. I must have looked at the wrong row . He's only 6'0", but the weight is right.
Can't believe he's listed at even 6'0, he doesn't look it.

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11-06-2012, 12:40 AM
  #122
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I dream of the day when the leafs no longer pay Tim Connolly. What a mistake.

Nobody except Lupul and Mac (ship Bozak, if you have to sign him first, do it for cheap)

Tell the others to pack their bags and thanks for nothing.


Last edited by MakeTheIronSing: 11-06-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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11-06-2012, 05:38 AM
  #123
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Bozak and Maybe Lupul

Bozak for sure and as our 3C for the next 4 years....and Lupul if he will take a shorter deal. The rest can go now.

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11-06-2012, 07:09 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Comments like that always remind me of this goal. Great composure, good handeye.

Yeah some people are fools. You don't simply go over a point per game by fluke. How can you not want to re-sign Lupul?

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11-06-2012, 07:13 AM
  #125
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If lupul gets signed elsewhere and there's cap space available. Who could we try and get other than Getz and Perry. Mabye Edler? Jimmy Howard? Dupuis?

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