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Matt Duchene for Morgan Rielly

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Old
11-05-2012, 06:57 PM
  #101
Man Bear Pig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
If your putting any prospect, no matter who, on your untouchable list when talking about Duchene, then Duchene is going to be on our untouchable list as well.
This is hf sir:

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11-05-2012, 07:37 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
for now it's possible but evenrually there will come a point where one of them as to move same thing happended with the pens.
Pens didn't have to move Staal, he made the decision to not re-sign for an expanded role after being stuck behind the two best centers in the league. None of our centers have that problem and each of them can easily play around 19-20 minutes per game when you include time spent together during PPs, PKs and averaging TOI over the season.

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Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Currently, Duchene is worth more. But in 2 years, Rielly will be worth more.
So who wins the election tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by AmazedRink View Post
I'd trade Gardiner+Bozak for Duchene. Rielly's untouchable.
And I wouldn't trade any of our 3 centers for that package.

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Duchene had 28 points last year. Hardly numbers and a development curve that make you want to give up the potential of Rielly.

Duchene is not a physical player -- if he isn't scoring -- and he isn't, he's not that effective. As his -11 and 1 goal in the SEL suggest.

Jake Gardiner put up more points than Duchene last year.

Reilly is untouchable from the Leafs point of view, imo, since he's the best prospect they have had in years.
Just so you know he was injured almost all of last year.

Some of the Leafs fan in here only wants to focus on what happened last year.

He put up 55 points his rookie year, and 67 the next. There's no reason to believe he can't match, and some day exceed those numbers when healthy.

Oh and he's a +6 in the SEL, not -11.

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:55 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Avs say no unless Toronto is willing to add.
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.

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11-05-2012, 07:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.


Can you expand on this statement and provide some sort of list or proof to back it up?

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11-05-2012, 07:58 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.
Rielly is not worth Duchen quite just yet.


Last edited by Muffin: 11-05-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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Old
11-05-2012, 07:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Currently, Duchene is worth more. But in 2 years, Rielly will be worth more.
Wow, thats good. Where did you buy your crystal ball? Or are you a self declared HF hockey expert who watches Duchene twice a year and came up with this based off what Rielly has done in Junior.

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Old
11-05-2012, 08:01 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.
Absolutely. Its fair easier to find a 1st line highly skilled center, rather than a top pairing PMD...

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11-05-2012, 08:28 PM
  #109
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9 months ago the Ducks fans were being told we would have to add to Bobby Ryan to get Duchene but a prospect is too much to get him. What a joke.

Avs would be retarded to do this.

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Old
11-05-2012, 08:34 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.
Yeah? Is it really? It's easy to find centermen with PPG potential? Rielly does have great potential, but so does Duchene, and Duchene already has 3 seasons under his belt where he proved himself. Until Rielly proves himself then it's Rielly+ for Duchene.

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Old
11-05-2012, 09:00 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.
You've never seen Rielly's skillset in the NHL so im nto sure if serious and Matt Duchene IMO has one of the rarest skillsets in the league in terms of speed, shot, finesse, puck handling...Id say the likes of Patrick Kane and company are likely comparable...

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Old
11-05-2012, 09:06 PM
  #112
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If TO is going to get a centreman I think they are going to want one with size.

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11-05-2012, 10:22 PM
  #113
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Why do the avs do this?

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Old
11-05-2012, 10:36 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
So it's a no!

Rielly has a high upside. It's easier to find a skillset of Duchene's on offence than it is to find one of Rielly's capabilities as a defenceman.
Bold claim, since one of these players has actually shown how his skillset fits in the NHL.

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Old
11-05-2012, 11:24 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Why do the avs do this?
Because we want to trade our top young skilled center for a prospect. We have no idea how said prospect might turn out, but its ok, since some Toronto fans have already assured us Rielly will be better even though he has yet to play in the NHL. And of course Duchene's 55 point rookie season and his 67 point season are complete flukes. His injury filled 28 point season is the real indicator that our 21 year old center might never break 60 points again. Having two good years in the NHL and one bad one is a clear indicator that a prospect will be better than you. Oh, and it sets us back a few years. So yeah, its pretty obvious why we do this. Did I really need to spell this out for you?

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:17 AM
  #116
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Yeah. **** to the no. Rielly is unproven. We have Barrie and Elliot in the farm team and while Rielly has better potential then both of them. The "potential" is not worth Duchene.

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:58 AM
  #117
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We would have to add quite a bit to get duchene. Rielly is enticing piece for any team but so is yakupov, however both are unproven.

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11-06-2012, 07:53 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
If TO is going to get a centreman I think they are going to want one with size.
size is obviously a preference but there isnt the biggest abundance of those at the moment.

i think if given a choice i would take duchene now rathen then wait and hope something better comes around.

its possible that someone like getzlaf might make it to ufa but even if they did (and i doubt he will), its highly unlikely that he would sign in toronto.

if a trade were to take place right now its logical to think that a prospect who is unproven should be worth less then a young center who has played a few seasons in the nhl. toronto obviously would get better "value" if reilly was an absolute beast in his first couple of nhl seasons. the problem with that is that if he becomes as amazing as all of us leaf fans are hoping we would never move him in the first place....even for duchene.

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11-06-2012, 08:01 AM
  #119
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No from TO.
bahaha

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11-06-2012, 08:04 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by AmazedRink View Post
I'd trade Gardiner+Bozak for Duchene. Rielly's untouchable.
And thank goodness you are not a gm. You would be absolutely insane not to trade our young unproven 18 year old d-man for Duchene. A fair price for Duchene would be Rielly+JVR. If Avs wanted to trade Duchene and wanted Rielly, JVR would be an enticing piece. A young power forward with untapped potential to play with O'Reilly or Stastny. This would be much more fair for the Avs.

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11-06-2012, 09:20 AM
  #121
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Colorado already has a few promising, young defensemen and adding Rielly to the mix could be considered a luxury. For that reason alone I don't think they consider it. Regardless, I don't think the value is far off, after all, Duchene's value hasn't necessarily risen since being drafted.

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11-06-2012, 10:09 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Colorado already has a few promising, young defensemen and adding Rielly to the mix could be considered a luxury. For that reason alone I don't think they consider it. Regardless, I don't think the value is far off, after all, Duchene's value hasn't necessarily risen since being drafted.
thats like saying toronto has a few promising centers (kadri, colborne, mckegg) and duchene would be a luxury. obviously duchene is vastly better then anything toronto has just like reilly is better then anything colorado has in their system (im talking prospect wise although i believe he will be better then anything on their current roster as well).

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11-06-2012, 10:17 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Colorado already has a few promising, young defensemen and adding Rielly to the mix could be considered a luxury. For that reason alone I don't think they consider it. Regardless, I don't think the value is far off, after all, Duchene's value hasn't necessarily risen since being drafted.
Right. He's proven about as much as Kadri who was drafted only 4 spots later. They are about the same value wise. So by THAT logic, Kadri + 4th round pick = Duchene

It's funny, I keep putting it out there and people keep ignoring it :

1 Crosby 102+120=222 Points
2 Kane 72+70=142 Points
3 Stamkos 46+95=141 Points
4 Duchene 55+67=122 Points
5 Tavares 54+67=121 Points
6 Kovalchuk 51+67=118 Points

(Amongst active players)

It's probably because it doesn't mean anything. There are tons of guys who come in to the league at 18, put up those kind of points and then just fade away into the AHL. (oh wait, no, there aren't ANY at all)

So Duchene is 4th for points put up in his first 2 seasons, starting as an 18 year old. Yeah, that's some pretty bad company right there...he hasn't really done ANYTHING since being drafted to bring up his value. If only there was some clue, some kind of indicator to give us some kind of preview as to what he could POSSIBLY become in the future.

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11-06-2012, 11:35 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
thats like saying toronto has a few promising centers (kadri, colborne, mckegg) and duchene would be a luxury. obviously duchene is vastly better then anything toronto has just like reilly is better then anything colorado has in their system (im talking prospect wise although i believe he will be better then anything on their current roster as well).
I think Barrie and Elliott are better than Kadri, Colborne, or McKegg so it's not quite the same (to me, at least). Notice I said "promising"

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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Right. He's proven about as much as Kadri who was drafted only 4 spots later. They are about the same value wise. So by THAT logic, Kadri + 4th round pick = Duchene

It's funny, I keep putting it out there and people keep ignoring it :

1 Crosby 102+120=222 Points
2 Kane 72+70=142 Points
3 Stamkos 46+95=141 Points
4 Duchene 55+67=122 Points
5 Tavares 54+67=121 Points
6 Kovalchuk 51+67=118 Points

(Amongst active players)

It's probably because it doesn't mean anything. There are tons of guys who come in to the league at 18, put up those kind of points and then just fade away into the AHL. (oh wait, no, there aren't ANY at all)

So Duchene is 4th for points put up in his first 2 seasons, starting as an 18 year old. Yeah, that's some pretty bad company right there...he hasn't really done ANYTHING since being drafted to bring up his value. If only there was some clue, some kind of indicator to give us some kind of preview as to what he could POSSIBLY become in the future.
Relax. All I'm saying is that relative to where he was drafted (3rd overall) his stock hasn't necessarily risen (whether it's stagnated or fallen is up for debate). Last season's performance is a cause for concern. Will he become an 80+ point center (like most people thought he could be at the draft) or will he stay a 60-70 point player. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm saying that relative to where he was drafted his stock hasn't risen.

People getting caught up in semantics

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:42 AM
  #125
Bender
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I think Barrie and Elliott are better than Kadri, Colborne, or McKegg so it's not quite the same (to me, at least). Notice I said "promising"



Relax. All I'm saying is that relative to where he was drafted (3rd overall) his stock hasn't necessarily risen (whether it's stagnated or fallen is up for debate). Last season's performance is a cause for concern. Will he become an 80+ point center (like most people thought he could be at the draft) or will he stay a 60-70 point player. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm saying that relative to where he was drafted his stock hasn't risen.

People getting caught up in semantics
I guess. However, I still think you could have worded it differently.

There are a lot of players from that draft who haven't even MADE the NHL yet. Their stocks haven't necessarily dropped, they are still on course. Compared to a kid who's played and excelled, I'd say his stock has risen significantly. Just my opinion I guess.

But I get what you're saying, since he was picked 3rd, he was 'supposed' to be good.

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