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Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

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11-06-2012, 10:35 AM
  #876
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If the Leafs are worried about decimating their team...

To Van- Kulemin, Biggs, Finn
To Tor- Luongo

Hard to imagine that makes the Leafs anything but significantly better.

Value is more than reasonable for a star and Toronto gets to hold onto all their top assets.

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11-06-2012, 10:46 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If the Leafs are worried about decimating their team...

To Van- Kulemin, Biggs, Finn
To Tor- Luongo

Hard to imagine that makes the Leafs anything but significantly better.

Value is more than reasonable for a star and Toronto gets to hold onto all their top assets.
I just don't see anything that works. We are rebuilding, so i think maybe i should get in line with my bretheren and say "status-quo". The Leafs just don't have the expendable pieces roster or otherwise that make this seem doable. Every proposal either includes roster pieces we need, or young pieces we have just recently aquired. I get the "give to get", i guess i'd just rather stick with what we have and go from there. I truely believe Luongo would greatly improve our playoff chances, but the price tag may be to much for a team with little to offer.

I know most of you will think i'm nuts, and maybe rightfully so, but the Leafs have had a history (and not a positive one) of trading youth for age, maybe it's time to put some faith in what Burke is trying to do and see how it pans out.

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11-06-2012, 11:08 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Once again, and i don't fault you for it, you are looking at it STRICTLY through Canuck glasses. Look at what these players mean to the Leafs. Bozak IS, i repeat IS our #1C. He is the only player who has worked between Kessel and Lupul, so that is a big deal for us. Frattin IS a solid 3rd line player who filled in nicely FOR US on the 2nd line when needed. Kadri IS our best NHL ready prospect AND by removing our #1C i can tell you that 1st will be a good one.


There's something you are not understanding LL, it makes no difference on the trade market where Bozak plays on the leafs. Or Frattin. Or Kadri. They are judged by their ability, not their position. Do you think that because Bozak plays on the 1C in TO that any GM sees him as a 1C? No. Be realistic.


I don't have to see this from any one side. I'm just evaluating the player based on his ability. Whether that's in TO or in VAN.


Frattin is a bottom6er that can't shutdown the opposition. He's not a Hansen or a Kulemin...Kadri is the best ready prospect in TO (Colborne?) yet he hasn't cracked the roster after 4 yrs of development?... And Lu helps put more wins on the board for TO than Bozak ever could...


Quote:
Lets look at the rumoured interested teams, Tor/Edm/Fla/Cbj and maybe Chi. You have 3 bottom 5 teams, 1 who just made the playoffs and Chi, other than the Hawks, how do you think ANY of those teams can AFFORD to make the Canucks (Prez tropy winners back to back) a better team??


None of them can make the Canucks "better". An elite asset will be moved for quantity, and so the Canucks will become worse. Even though many may not see that. So to answer your query, none do, and that deal doesn't make the Canucks "better" either. It just provides them with an outside chance to break even down the road. That's it.

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11-06-2012, 11:34 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I just don't see anything that works. We are rebuilding, so i think maybe i should get in line with my bretheren and say "status-quo". The Leafs just don't have the expendable pieces roster or otherwise that make this seem doable. Every proposal either includes roster pieces we need, or young pieces we have just recently aquired. I get the "give to get", i guess i'd just rather stick with what we have and go from there. I truely believe Luongo would greatly improve our playoff chances, but the price tag may be to much for a team with little to offer.

I know most of you will think i'm nuts, and maybe rightfully so, but the Leafs have had a history (and not a positive one) of trading youth for age, maybe it's time to put some faith in what Burke is trying to do and see how it pans out.
Luongo helps the Leafs far more currently and long term than Kulemin, Biggs and Finn would. Carlyle will be employing a more defensive style and this plays into Luongo's strengths as a goaltender.

Kulemin is the only roster player going the other way, and he's a 2nd/3rd line tweener (depending on chemistry with linemates). Biggs if he turns out will be a either a very good 3rd line checking forward or solid 2nd line power forward, while Finn will top out as a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. Could Biggs and Finn turn out better? Ya, but I wouldn't count on it.

How is a trade like that bad for the Leafs who are in desperate need of solid goaltending?

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11-06-2012, 11:44 AM
  #880
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Basically, for the majority of Leafs fans, it's "soft deal" or no deal. And that's fine, because I cannot fathom Gillis doing that type of deal with Burke. Wrong 2 GMs involved.


Interestingly enough, I would love to see this interplay between GMs carry on into the season. In fact, I hope Gillis waits right up until the deadline. If TO is a bubble team at that point, it will be the moment of truth for Burke's tenure there. Exciting stuff.

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11-06-2012, 11:46 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
There's something you are not understanding LL, it makes no difference on the trade market where Bozak plays on the leafs. Or Frattin. Or Kadri. They are judged by their ability, not their position. Do you think that because Bozak plays on the 1C in TO that any GM sees him as a 1C? No. Be realistic.


I don't have to see this from any one side. I'm just evaluating the player based on his ability. Whether that's in TO or in VAN.


Frattin is a bottom6er that can't shutdown the opposition. He's not a Hansen or a Kulemin...Kadri is the best ready prospect in TO (Colborne?) yet he hasn't cracked the roster after 4 yrs of development?... And Lu helps put more wins on the board for TO than Bozak ever could...






None of them can make the Canucks "better". An elite asset will be moved for quantity, and so the Canucks will become worse. Even though many may not see that. So to answer your query, none do, and that deal doesn't make the Canucks "better" either. It just provides them with an outside chance to break even down the road. That's it.
I get every point. But you are stating what you think Luongo's value is...period. Well, you may be right, but NONE of the interested teams can afford to pay that price. Do you think Rick Nash went for full value? I don't, but his NTC pretty much set the tone just as i feel Luongo's will. When the time comes, Luongo will present his list to Gillis and he will look at the best deals accordingly. Now, Gillis could play hardball with Luongo, but in the end, it will either be honour the list or waive him. He could also keep Luongo but IMO, that ship has sailed. This doesn't mean taking Komi and a 4th, but i believe getting "full value" is a pipedream for many reasons...such as age/contract/NTC/market.

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11-06-2012, 11:47 AM
  #882
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Why are we back to wanting the Leafs garbage?? If a trade with the Leafs happen it better be significantly better than what their fans on here want to offer. In the meantime talking about trading Luongo for their junk or pieces that don't address our needs makes no sense at all.

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11-06-2012, 11:50 AM
  #883
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I dont think the Leafs, or anyone in the Eastern conference is worried about making the Canucks "better".

I would put the odds on a Canucks Leaf final about 500 : 1 this year. However, LL, I see your point. Hard to find a fair deal for TO that doesn't really hurt them ...

With regards to earlier comments about MPS trade with Edm .... we have talked about needing some elite talent in 4 - 5 years when the Sedins are pretty much done ... and MPS is the same age as Naslund was when we got him .... yes its a long shot, but a good one to try.

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11-06-2012, 11:51 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Basically, for the majority of Leafs fans, it's "soft deal" or no deal. And that's fine, because I cannot fathom Gillis doing that type of deal with Burke. Wrong 2 GMs involved.


Interestingly enough, I would love to see this interplay between GMs carry on into the season. In fact, I hope Gillis waits right up until the deadline. If TO is a bubble team at that point, it will be the moment of truth for Burke's tenure there. Exciting stuff.
Actually, some of us don't consider the deal "soft" if it includes our 1st or 1 of our top 6 or any of our top prospects. If TO is a bubble team at the deadline, Burke will move out pieces for picks before he will make a desperate move. As he has stated before "i'm not looking to make the playoffs just to get our ***** kicked".

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11-06-2012, 11:54 AM
  #885
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Why are we back to wanting the Leafs garbage?? If a trade with the Leafs happen it better be significantly better than what their fans on here want to offer. In the meantime talking about trading Luongo for their junk or pieces that don't address our needs makes no sense at all.
I normally don't respond to your posts as they are....well....nuts. BUT, you'd better start pushing Luongo at some top 5 teams...why? Because it's pretty hard to expect bottom 5 teams to "address the needs" of the 2 time Prez trophy winners.

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11-06-2012, 12:07 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post

None of them can make the Canucks "better". An elite asset will be moved for quantity, and so the Canucks will become worse. Even though many may not see that. So to answer your query, none do, and that deal doesn't make the Canucks "better" either. It just provides them with an outside chance to break even down the road. That's it.
Trading a back-up goaltender regardless of his stature will most definitely make this team "better". Unless it only ends up being a salary dump, Vancouver will improve.

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11-06-2012, 12:15 PM
  #887
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I don't want any of Bozak, Frattin, Kulemin(maybe), Colburne or Franson. They don't do anything for us. I agree with the above posters it should be quality for quality. IMO Toronto's first has to be involved. I'd rather that than anything else on their team. Gillis can choose his own player with that. I actually like what the Canucks have done in the first round, and in a draft like this, you can bet he'll hit a home run.

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11-06-2012, 12:30 PM
  #888
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I don't want any of Bozak, Frattin, Kulemin(maybe), Colburne or Franson. They don't do anything for us. I agree with the above posters it should be quality for quality. IMO Toronto's first has to be involved. I'd rather that than anything else on their team. Gillis can choose his own player with that. I actually like what the Canucks have done in the first round, and in a draft like this, you can bet he'll hit a home run.
Exactly the reason teams including the Leafs are not lining up to deal thier 1st.

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11-06-2012, 12:33 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Exactly the reason teams including the Leafs are not lining up to deal thier 1st.
I know it's tough but you'd be able to keep your core intact and your prospect cupboard is decently strong...especially defensively. The only thing that's missing is a potential number 1 center.

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11-06-2012, 01:54 PM
  #890
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If the Leafs can't afford to do anything other then a soft deal then a deal won't happen. You can't expect to get a player of Luongo's ability for next to nothing.

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11-06-2012, 02:00 PM
  #891
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I know it's tough but you'd be able to keep your core intact and your prospect cupboard is decently strong...especially defensively. The only thing that's missing is a potential number 1 center.
Not that i hate the Kessel deal, but if we didn't trade our 1st for him, we'd have our center. That is the reason i'm leary on dealing it again, this is a deep draft and our future #1C may be there.

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11-06-2012, 02:02 PM
  #892
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If the Leafs can't afford to do anything other then a soft deal then a deal won't happen. You can't expect to get a player of Luongo's ability for next to nothing.
I don't think it's just the Leafs, most of the rumoured interested teams are bottom 5 teams. All of them can't afford more than a "soft" deal.

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11-06-2012, 02:21 PM
  #893
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I don't think it's just the Leafs, most of the rumoured interested teams are bottom 5 teams. All of them can't afford more than a "soft" deal.
The only place he'll go in a "soft" deal is Florida. The organization thinks very highly of Lu and would like to do him a favour if they can. The only way that happens imo is if Gillis finds another deal that leaves us needing cap space, but regardless he isn't going to Toronto in a "soft" deal.

The question becomes, is he still only worth a "soft" deal to the Leafs if he's on his way to Florida?

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11-06-2012, 02:23 PM
  #894
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The only place he'll go in a "soft" deal is Florida. The organization thinks very highly of Lu and would like to do him a favour if they can. The only way that happens imo is if Gillis finds another deal that leaves us needing cap space, but regardless he isn't going to Toronto in a "soft" deal.

The question becomes, is he still only worth a "soft" deal to the Leafs if he's on his way to Florida?
Give me an example, it seems FLA is only willing to trade dumps, so if TO betters that....does he still go to FLA?

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11-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #895
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Give me an example, it seems FLA is only willing to trade dumps, so if TO betters that....does he still go to FLA?
It doesn't matter what the trade is, if anyones getting a favour it's Florida. Last chance to make an offer before your competition gets him for a song, what do you offer?

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11-06-2012, 02:43 PM
  #896
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It doesn't matter what the trade is, if anyones getting a favour it's Florida. Last chance to make an offer before your competition gets him for a song, what do you offer?
LOL...so basically TO has to offer the moon, or you'll give him to FLA? Well, i guess FLA has themselves a new goalie then.

OR...i could say, Bozak,Frattin and a 2nd. If you would prefer to take a salary dump from FLA then by all means...deal him to FLA.

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11-06-2012, 02:46 PM
  #897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
LOL...so basically TO has to offer the moon, or you'll give him to FLA? Well, i guess FLA has themselves a new goalie then.

OR...i could say, Bozak,Frattin and a 2nd. If you would prefer to take a salary dump from FLA then by all means...deal him to FLA.
Toronto doesn't have to offer the moon, just something of value that addresses our needs. Bozak, Frattin and a 2nd is an insult of an offer. That's like the Canucks offering Lapierre, Schroeder and a 2nd for Phil Kessel.

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11-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
LOL...so basically TO has to offer the moon, or you'll give him to FLA? Well, i guess FLA has themselves a new goalie then.

OR...i could say, Bozak,Frattin and a 2nd. If you would prefer to take a salary dump from FLA then by all means...deal him to FLA.
As long as there are two pieces involved that have the potential to be top-6/top-4 players, I'd be satisfied. Any 2 of Kadri/Finn/1st/Maybe Colborne + a 3C(Connolly/Bozak)

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11-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #899
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Toronto doesn't have to offer the moon, just something of value that addresses our needs. Bozak, Frattin and a 2nd is an insult of an offer. That's like the Canucks offering Lapierre, Schroeder and a 2nd for Phil Kessel.
LOL, the point to my post was, if Bozak,Frattin and a 2nd is the best offer on the table....?

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11-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #900
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As long as there are two pieces involved that have the potential to be top-6/top-4 players, I'd be satisfied. Any 2 of Kadri/Finn/1st/Maybe Colborne + a 3C(Connolly/Bozak)
Really?? DONE!!!

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