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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:58 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
I frankly don't see how it makes that much difference.

Does Winnipeg flying to Miami really hurt them more than Washington DC flying to Miami?

I mean, it's a plane ride. Maybe a 4 hour plane ride versus a 2 hour plane ride.

I can understand you don't want teams crossing coasts all the time, but I frankly don't really care whether Columbus or Nashville is closer to the southeast, etc.

I want to whatever alignment keeps the most traditional rivalries intact.

And for what it's worth I hate the four conference idea. None of the other leagues do it. Each have two conferences with three divisions. The NHL should be the same.
The NHL and the sport of hockey are nothing like the other major professional sports.

You may hate the idea of four conferences but it retained the "traditional rivalries", it kept teams within their time zones, so for folks that are fans of the Dallas Stars, for example, don't have to wait an hour+ later to watch a divisional game against one of the California teams. It hurts their ratings. Its a problem. Can't just shift them to the Central Division. It again creates a domino effect.

The other resulting issue is parity. Parity could be lost in the realignment plan.

You risk weaker clubs in weak markets struggling to make the playoffs even more. Or continue to have some teams suffer in attendance and TV ratings because divisional games are one or two time zones away.

Again all stemming back to the real core issue.

Hockey is a niche sport. The NHL is a niche league. A regional sport. The league is either A- to big or B-there are too many teams in poor hockey markets.

There's going to have to be a realignment soon. There are some teams potentially on the move. And there's already been hints at expansion. Seattle, Quebec, Kansas City, and the greater Toronto area are all bidding for teams.

We can't continue to look at other major pro sports leagues and assume the NHL can operate or think like they do. Sadly (or not depending on your view) the NHL has more in common with MLS than the NBA (who they are constantly compared to because of scheduling).

MLS and NHL are the two leagues to compare. How does the MLS operate. Did they jump into markets blindly and rash like the NHL did? Or is the expansion they are going through more calculated.

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11-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #202
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If they expand, they haven't learned a thing about the issues in this league. Fans should educate themselves, they would never oppose the players again after further expansion.

Owners are in the meeting today? Who shows up will tell you how successful these efforts will be.

I forgot Gary told everyone "business as usual" this summer. If he "represents the players and the owners" like jacobs is fond of pointing out, he should have indicated immediate drops in the share were likely. Why encourage spending to the cap limit if you are dropping it? People blamed the players for activating inflators. Two way street. Players should fire Bettman if he represents them.

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11-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #203
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Maybe Dolan shows up but I doubt it. Probably the same ******** that show up every time and are in Bettman's ear.

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11-06-2012, 09:28 AM
  #204
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@JSportsnet: In addition to Bettman and Daly,expect key owners who have been involved so far...Edwards,Jacobs,Leipold,Leonsis to be in NYC.

Same owners as usual, awesome.

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11-06-2012, 09:28 AM
  #205
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In addition to Bettman and Daly,expect key owners who have been involved so far...Edwards,Jacobs,Leipold,Leonsis to be in NYC.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...37079748042752

Hawk. Hawk. Hawk. Hawk.

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11-06-2012, 10:21 AM
  #206
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Goose?




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11-06-2012, 10:30 AM
  #207
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This will be gold.

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11-06-2012, 12:48 PM
  #208
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Hagelin injured shoulder

http://snyrangersblog.com/2012-13-lo...nally-thought/


Not good news at all.

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:50 PM
  #209
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Sounds like format of bargaining session will be multiple meetings. Small group with Fehrs,Bettman,Daly plus side meetings for consultation.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...88337519337472

They don't need all of those people in the room.

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This is the most cautious I have ever seen Don Fehr. No rhetoric,no malice,no history lesson. Just sayin'
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...89540093390848

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11-06-2012, 01:22 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...88337519337472

They don't need all of those people in the room.

Quote:
This is the most cautious I have ever seen Don Fehr. No rhetoric,no malice,no history lesson. Just sayin'
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...89540093390848
not sure what this means...is this a good sign or bad one?

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11-06-2012, 01:22 PM
  #211
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so is today huge?

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11-06-2012, 01:25 PM
  #212
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not sure what this means...is this a good sign or bad one?
Probably a good sign.

Having a format where just your main people are negotiating in one group and can then go back and talk to their respective constituents to see if they're ok with the way negotiations are going is a pretty serious way to bargain.

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11-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #213
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so is today huge?
I think it is...

If they come away with positive traction we could have hockey by Thanksgiving or December (a significant season... anything like '94/'95 would be a lame attempt to not lose 2 seasons in 8 years and would tarnish the play-offs/Stanely Cup being awarded).

If talks break and no progress is made you'd have to think the season is done.

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:13 PM
  #214
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Probably a good sign.

Having a format where just your main people are negotiating in one group and can then go back and talk to their respective constituents to see if they're ok with the way negotiations are going is a pretty serious way to bargain.
Yup.

When I originally heard that the owners & players would be involved, my reaction was "oh, ****, what are they doing? They need to keep everyone else away until they're down to fine strokes. If they're actually in there negotiating the main body of the deal, one of them will open their mouths and torpedo the whole thing within an hour."

When I heard the big four would be doing the talking, with the other two groups sequestered off to the side, I was extremely encouraged.

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11-06-2012, 02:51 PM
  #215
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The posturing is over. There will be a season. I think this is going to be settled in the next few days. Each side has made their point. Now its becoming too big of a lo$$.

Not a fan of a shortened season, but I will take what I can get at this point...

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
When I originally heard that the owners & players would be involved, my reaction was "oh, ****, what are they doing? They need to keep everyone else away until they're down to fine strokes. If they're actually in there negotiating the main body of the deal, one of them will open their mouths and torpedo the whole thing within an hour."
Yeah, there would be a lot of bickering. Might as well bring Allan Walsh and Darren Dreger along.

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11-06-2012, 03:02 PM
  #217
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Only took them until November to realize that having hawkish owners and uneducated players in the same room doesnt work out too well.

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11-06-2012, 03:04 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Only took them until November to realize that having hawkish owners and uneducated players in the same room doesnt work out too well.
It's okay they can use that information in about 8 years to make the next lockout go smoother.

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11-06-2012, 03:46 PM
  #219
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I don't expect new proposal to be table today but ideas to resolve issues: make whole, players share, revenue sharing...
Quote:
...player contracting rights and team cap issues.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS

Make whole and players share are connected. Revenue sharing is at $200M for the NHL and $240M for the NHLPA. The contract rights are free agency,arbitration,contract term limits and entry level contracts. Team cap issues. The NHL proposed a 1 year transition period of $70.2M based on a full 82 game season. Then the cap would determined by revenue. If there is a 60 game season,they can't base the cap of 13-14 on 60 games. The NBA has a 2 year transition period. They had a 66 game season last season. Compliance/amnesty buyouts.

The PA doesn't like the $105,000 cap on minor leagues salaries. No surprise. Some NHL teams don't like the NHL's proposal of not having performance bonuses to reach the floor.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 11-06-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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11-06-2012, 03:56 PM
  #220
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All part of the script.

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Old
11-06-2012, 03:57 PM
  #221
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So in other words, negotiating off a proposal. Which FYI is much, MUCH better than coming back with yet a new proposal, Mr. Lavoie (presuming your goal is a deal sooner rather than later, that is).

Loved this from Strickland:

Quote:
Who else gets the sense the entitre #NHL lockout is scripted?
Seriously.

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #222
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“That would set a ceiling on salaries,” said Bartlett, who has several clients playing in the American Hockey League.

Dubnyk totally agrees.

“It artificially caps the American League guys’ earning ability,” said Dubnyk. “If that happens, you’ll lose quality guys to Europe.”
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...561/story.html

Stupid idea. $105K cap on AHL salaries.

Quote:
This alarmed two groups. One is a lot of NHL owners, many of whom were considered moderates, who are not happy that under this proposal they could no longer include on their payroll bonus money that would likely never be paid in order to get to the salary floor, which was $48.3-million in the 2011-12 season. This means they will have to pay real cash to get to the floor, a daunting prospect for clubs operating on razor-thin margins.
Quote:
Sources say this owners group includes many who were previously thought to be eager to get a deal but were angered when they saw Bettman’s offer to exclude bonus payments from the cap. The clubs in this group include the usual small-revenue teams such as the Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators and New York Islanders but others, such as the Dallas Stars, St. Louis Blues, Washington Capitals, Anaheim Ducks and Colorado Avalanche, are unhappy as well. While clubs such as the Stars and Blues have reaped big revenue in the past and have new owners, their gate receipts took big hits in recent years.

Under the old agreement, a club such as the Islanders routinely made sure there were several entry-level players on its roster whose cap hit was much larger than their actual salary thanks to several bonuses. For example, in the 2011-12 season, rookie Nino Niederreiter’s entry-level contract paid him $900,000 in actual salary but nearly $2-million in bonuses brought his cap hit to just under $2.8-million. The 20-year-old was on the NHL roster for 55 games and scored exactly one goal, which meant almost all of that bonus money was never paid, a huge saving for the cash-strapped Islanders.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

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11-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #223
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Something is telling me to not let myself get overly optimistic about this whole thing.

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Old
11-06-2012, 05:02 PM
  #224
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So why didn't Niederreiter get paid his bonus money? And he had a 1 year deal? I'm not following.

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11-06-2012, 05:05 PM
  #225
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Expectation is that NHL/NHLPA talks will go "somewhat late" source just said...
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...52551738953728

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