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Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund

View Poll Results: Sven Bärtshi vs Mikael Granlund
Bärtshi 125 40.85%
Granlund 163 53.27%
Same 18 5.88%
Voters: 306. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-05-2012, 07:45 PM
  #101
Haatley
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Maybe you should read his post again. He was talking about vision only

And he didn't even say that he thinks Granlund has better vision than Thornton or Crosby. Granlund does have better vision than Koivu already and I'm sure everyone who's seen him play enough agrees with this. When they've played on the same team Granlund has been the better playmaker. Koivu is still far ahead on other aspects of the game and better player but Granlund's vision is already better. Which it should be because that is pretty much the only reason why he belongs to the top tier of prospects.
hes not some finnish secret. we have all watched him play. His vision isnt as good as any if them.

hes a great prospect but hes not the great one like you guys describe him jesus

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11-05-2012, 08:03 PM
  #102
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All of a sudden Granlund sucks at defense?

I'll listen to scouts and credible hockey experts... Granlund, please.

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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Baertschi is thick, 190 lbs +. He has a good 25 pounds on Ma. Granlund. So yes, he is bigger.

Granlund's listed as 183lbs.


Bartschi's listed as 190lbs.


Last edited by Minnesota: 11-05-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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11-05-2012, 08:20 PM
  #103
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It shouldn't come as surprise that Granlund's vision is top-notch. If he lacked that attribute we wouldn't be talking about him now. He would be non-entity in the hockey world.

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11-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #104
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Because most of players doesen't have balls to do something new or simply has "it" in their vision and some of those plays are just simple little moves. They would work in the NHL aswell. I'll put tomorrow few samples when i'm on computer. Don't let his age or anything fool you. Most of those players are superstars in the NHL i know it but in pure vision he is among the best players in the world. I say it again that it doesen't guarantee his superstar or even star status but he has "it" in his vision. Granlund will bring something fresh and new into NHL and it will only be good for the game.

It's easy to pick up some superstars against an prospect but we measure 1 skill and it is vision. Granlund is one of the most creative players in the world no doubt about it.
Plenty of young players start out in the NHL doing fancy crap. I remember during Crosby's first season, he had some fancy moves. You think the best player in the world didn't have "it"? He just learned quick that you're better off keeping it simple most of the time. Granlund isn't some amazing player who defies the rules here. He doesn't have a talent level that makes him an exception.

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11-05-2012, 11:03 PM
  #105
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Plenty of young players start out in the NHL doing fancy crap. I remember during Crosby's first season, he had some fancy moves. You think the best player in the world didn't have "it"? He just learned quick that you're better off keeping it simple most of the time. Granlund isn't some amazing player who defies the rules here. He doesn't have a talent level that makes him an exception.
This is true, Granlund can make amazing passes obviously, but he will have to adapt and use his passing game to become a succesful NHL'er

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11-05-2012, 11:11 PM
  #106
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This is true, Granlund can make amazing passes obviously, but he will have to adapt and use his passing game to become a succesful NHL'er
Right, which makes him no different than any other talented prospect. Flashy is fun, but simple is what consistently gets the job done in the NHL, and that's what coaches want. It's not like it's a knock on Granlund's abilities either.

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11-06-2012, 02:14 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
All of a sudden Granlund sucks at defense?

I'll listen to scouts and credible hockey experts... Granlund, please.



Granlund's listed as 183lbs.


Bartschi's listed as 190lbs.
Which experts rate Granlund ahead? Honest question as very few scouts I have found compare them.

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11-06-2012, 02:54 AM
  #108
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Right, which makes him no different than any other talented prospect. Flashy is fun, but simple is what consistently gets the job done in the NHL, and that's what coaches want. It's not like it's a knock on Granlund's abilities either.
The problem is that those passes isn't even flashy or fancy. They are made by his brilliant vision. They look like ordinary plays but requires so much vision and smartness to do that kind of plays. Watch his pass in WC final against sweden 1 single and simple move played out all of the swedish players when he was going alone against swedish defense. Not flashy, not fancy but extremely smart. Just pure smartness and vision. Never said that crosby doesen't have "it" so don't mut words on my mouth.

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11-06-2012, 03:01 AM
  #109
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It's hard to say...They have different backgrounds, so it's hard to compare...Though one thing I have to say is why hasn't Bartschi been on the WC rosters?

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11-06-2012, 11:12 AM
  #110
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It's hard to say...They have different backgrounds, so it's hard to compare...Though one thing I have to say is why hasn't Bartschi been on the WC rosters?
Possibly age, possibly related to the WHL playoffs. Granlund wasn't invited to the WCs until he hit 20, and Baertschi just turned 20 a few weeks ago.

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11-06-2012, 11:53 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
It's hard to say...They have different backgrounds, so it's hard to compare...Though one thing I have to say is why hasn't Bartschi been on the WC rosters?
Sven has been carrying his team to the WHL finals. No time for the WC.

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11-06-2012, 11:58 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
It's not that funny. Granlund's playmaking skills are better. Granlund is a pure talent in that regard. As Thomast said above we can count players with Granlund's kind of vision by single hand.
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Originally Posted by urho View Post
Yes he is. At least I'm quite sure of it, seeing them play in the same team and all.
Its is that funny actually. When Granlund starts to average just shy of 50A per season, then you can make that argument. For now, its hilarious.

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11-06-2012, 01:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Possibly age, possibly related to the WHL playoffs. Granlund wasn't invited to the WCs until he hit 20, and Baertschi just turned 20 a few weeks ago.
Actually he was 19 when he got invited to his first WC (2011) after a long championship.

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Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Sven has been carrying his team to the WHL finals. No time for the WC.
That makes no sense. Doesn't the WHL Finals end way before the WC?

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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Its is that funny actually. When Granlund starts to average just shy of 50A per season, then you can make that argument. For now, its hilarious.
When Sven plays in a men's league and not in the CHL...then you can make the argument.

The problem is Sven was playing with kids. It's hard to translate that over to playing in a men's league. AHL > European Leagues > CHL.

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11-06-2012, 01:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post


That makes no sense. Doesn't the WHL Finals end way before the WC?
What a stupid response. You couldn't have checked this yourself? The WHL Finals ended on May 13. The WC started on the 4th, and was done for Switzerland less than 36 hours after game 7 of the WHL finals.

Do you really think Sven wouldn't have made the Swiss team if he had the opportunity?

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11-06-2012, 01:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
What a stupid response. You couldn't have checked this yourself? The WHL Finals ended on May 13. The WC started on the 4th, and was done for Switzerland less than 36 hours after game 7 of the WHL finals.

Do you really think Sven wouldn't have made the Swiss team if he had the opportunity?
Then he should have played for the Fin's I mean Granlund could make the team why couldn't Sven That is seriously where this debate has gotten to.


Last edited by TheHudlinator: 11-06-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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11-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Actually he was 19 when he got invited to his first WC (2011) after a long championship.



That makes no sense. Doesn't the WHL Finals end way before the WC?



When Sven plays in a men's league and not in the CHL...then you can make the argument.

The problem is Sven was playing with kids. It's hard to translate that over to playing in a men's league. AHL > European Leagues > CHL.
How about you read what I am actually talking about before hitting reply? I was talking to the poster comparing Granlund to Koivu. My goodness its right in the post..

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11-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
How about you read what I am actually talking about before hitting reply? I was talking to the poster comparing Granlund to Koivu. My goodness its right in the post..
Still he and everyone else who have been comparing Granlund to other players have been talking about vision only. I seriously doubt you can find a single person who has seen 30-50+ games of Granlund and doesn't agree that Granlund's offensive instinct/vision is better than Koivu's. Koivu is still the better player by a wide margin because he's ahead on basically every other aspect of the game but that wasn't what we were talking about here.

I haven't even voted here because I haven't seen enough of Bärtschi. But looking at his stats it would be really hard to find a argument that favors him. Especially when we are talking about a center vs winger situation. After all he has 14 professional games under his belt compared to Granlund's 162 games and 19+9 national team games in WC and EHT. On top of that he's only 1cm taller than Granlund.

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11-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Still he and everyone else who have been comparing Granlund to other players have been talking about vision only. I seriously doubt you can find a single person who has seen 30-50+ games of Granlund and doesn't agree that Granlund's offensive instinct/vision is better than Koivu's. Koivu is still the better player by a wide margin because he's ahead on basically every other aspect of the game but that wasn't what we were talking about here.

I haven't even voted here because I haven't seen enough of Bärtschi. But looking at his stats it would be really hard to find a argument that favors him. Especially when we are talking about a center vs winger situation. After all he has 14 professional games under his belt compared to Granlund's 162 games and 19+9 national team games in WC and EHT. On top of that he's only 1cm taller than Granlund.
It's pretty hard to compare the leagues that they have played in but in the short time they have been in the same league both are stand outs on their teams and have a very comparable skill set offensively. Granlund has an edge in vision as has been noted but Sven has an edge defensively so they are basically even.

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11-06-2012, 03:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It's pretty hard to compare the leagues that they have played in but in the short time they have been in the same league both are stand outs on their teams and have a very comparable skill set offensively. Granlund has an edge in vision as has been noted but Sven has an edge defensively so they are basically even.
Ok as I said I haven't seen enough of Bärtschi to compare these two. Bärtschi has to be hell of a defensive player to have great edge there since Granlund is very good defensively. I think the illusion of Granlund being a threat defensively is from couple of years ago when he made the transition from wing to center in SM-Liiga. At the time he struggled with defensive play for the first half of the season but never since.

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11-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It's pretty hard to compare the leagues that they have played in but in the short time they have been in the same league both are stand outs on their teams and have a very comparable skill set offensively. Granlund has an edge in vision as has been noted but Sven has an edge defensively so they are basically even.
Better defensively based on what? How he is better? Granlund is excellent all-around player. I like Bärtschi alot and i think that he could be next high calibre player for the flames but i also think that Granlund has room to be much better than he is right now because he isn't used to small rinks yet. I could see him dominating after adjustment period. I think that after that we get clear view who's the better prospect.

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11-06-2012, 03:42 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Still he and everyone else who have been comparing Granlund to other players have been talking about vision only. I seriously doubt you can find a single person who has seen 30-50+ games of Granlund and doesn't agree that Granlund's offensive instinct/vision is better than Koivu's. Koivu is still the better player by a wide margin because he's ahead on basically every other aspect of the game but that wasn't what we were talking about here.

I haven't even voted here because I haven't seen enough of Bärtschi. But looking at his stats it would be really hard to find a argument that favors him. Especially when we are talking about a center vs winger situation. After all he has 14 professional games under his belt compared to Granlund's 162 games and 19+9 national team games in WC and EHT. On top of that he's only 1cm taller than Granlund.
Ughhhhh, here is the exact quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Granlund's playmaking skills are already better than Mikko Koivu's. It seems Flame fans are arguing here Baerchis playmaking>Koivu's. Nice
He literally says PLAYMAKING. So no, the post I quoted was not talking about vision.

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11-06-2012, 03:51 PM
  #122
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Ughhhhh, here is the exact quote:



He literally says PLAYMAKING. So no, the post I quoted was not talking about vision.
Well Granlund is definetly better offensive player than Mikko Koivu no doubt about that but is unproven in the NHL so it would be stupid to say that who is better playmaker in the NHL because there is no document from Granlund in the NHL. Granlund is better playmaker and goal scorer than Mikko Koivu in the games i've seen. I've seen them playing in the same team and i've seen Mikko Koivu playing FEL this year.

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11-06-2012, 03:51 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Better defensively based on what? How he is better? Granlund is excellent all-around player. I like Bärtschi alot and i think that he could be next high calibre player for the flames but i also think that Granlund has room to be much better than he is right now because he isn't used to small rinks yet. I could see him dominating after adjustment period. I think that after that we get clear view who's the better prospect.
Sven seems to have better defensive instincts its not that Granlund is bad just I like what I have seen from Sven better.

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11-06-2012, 03:56 PM
  #124
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Well Granlund is definetly better offensive player than Mikko Koivu no doubt about that but is unproven in the NHL so it would be stupid to say that who is better playmaker in the NHL because there is no document from Granlund in the NHL. Granlund is better playmaker and goal scorer than Mikko Koivu in the games i've seen. I've seen them playing in the same team and i've seen Mikko Koivu playing FEL this year.


Thats the entire point.

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11-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #125
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The problem is that those passes isn't even flashy or fancy. They are made by his brilliant vision. They look like ordinary plays but requires so much vision and smartness to do that kind of plays. Watch his pass in WC final against sweden 1 single and simple move played out all of the swedish players when he was going alone against swedish defense. Not flashy, not fancy but extremely smart. Just pure smartness and vision. Never said that crosby doesen't have "it" so don't mut words on my mouth.
You're implying that there is an exceptional factor to his passing, which may be true, but that doesn't refute my point. There are players in the NHL, right now, who have comparable, or better vision than Granlund... and these players keep it simple, because that's how it works in the NHL.

You said it doesn't happen because players don't have the balls, or because they just don't have it. So, that seems to suggest to me that Crosby either doesn't have balls, or he doesn't have it. Which is it?

Are you talking about the dump pass by Granlund? Because, while a smart play, there was nothing "special" about it. Any team who has played the Detroit Red Wings has seen that set up a hundred times(as they do it more than any other team). I've seen a number of players in Anaheim do it, and throughout the NHL. It's just a play to take advantage of active boards. If that's the type of play that you've never seen in the NHL, then you're just not looking very hard.

I'm not denying that Granlund is a terrific prospect. He is. He should have a long career in the NHL. You seem to be exaggerating his capabilities though, by implying he can do things no one else can.

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