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Why isn't Lorne Chabot In The Hall Of Fame?

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11-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #1
Scott1980
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Why isn't Lorne Chabot In The Hall Of Fame?

This guy was consistently among the top 10 (and in many cases, top 5) in games played, wins, ties, gaa, minutes and shutouts. He even graced the cover of Time magazine!

Why isn't he in?

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11-04-2012, 09:57 PM
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thom
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I agree with Lorne but another one is Roggy Vachon who some say should be in.In 1976 Canada Cup he had 1.33 gaa.He was a star goalie for the kings his forward were not that defensive.Pronovost of the habs is another some say he was better than Gainey.

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11-04-2012, 09:58 PM
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MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1980 View Post
This guy was consistently among the top 10 (and in many cases, top 5) in games played, wins, ties, gaa, minutes and shutouts. He even graced the cover of Time magazine!

Why isn't he in?
Considering how many teams there were back then, and the fact that was not really any kind of rotation system, being in the Top-10 was nothing special. But, yeah, I mean, is he that apart from Alec Connell?

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11-05-2012, 08:31 AM
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tony d
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Very surprised that this guy is not in the Hall. Chabot is a name you always read about as a really good goalie.

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11-05-2012, 09:57 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Was a 1st Team All Star once against pretty poor competition: 1934-35, the year after Charlie Gardiner died, and was never close to an All Star again.


I think a better question would be, "why should Lorne Chabot be inducted into the HHOF?" What makes him a better candidate than Dave Kerr, for example?

Here's a fairly recent thread:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=937755

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11-05-2012, 10:09 AM
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Buck Aki Berg
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He never played after 1980, therefore this generation of fans doesn't know who he is.

And if nobody knows who he is, he couldn't possibly have been any good.

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11-05-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
He never played after 1980, therefore this generation of fans doesn't know who he is.

And if nobody knows who he is, he couldn't possibly have been any good.
So make the case for Chabot to be in the HHOF, then. That's the logical conclusion to your rant about "this generation", isn't it?

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11-05-2012, 11:27 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Chabot was born in 1900.

These are goalies born within 5 years of Chabot who are inducted into the HHOF:

Alec Connell: 1902
George Hainsworth: 1895
Tiny Thompson: 1905
Roy Worters: 1900
Charlie Gardiner: 1904

Seems like Chabot's generation is pretty well recognized already

I'm not even sure Chabot is the best of his generation not to be enshrined. John Ross Roach was born in 1900, too.

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11-05-2012, 12:55 PM
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CpatainCanuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1980 View Post
This guy was consistently among the top 10 (and in many cases, top 5) in games played, wins, ties, gaa, minutes and shutouts. He even graced the cover of Time magazine!

Why isn't he in?
When there are only 8-10 teams in the league, being in the top 10 for a given stat is hardly impressive is it.

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11-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
When there are only 8-10 teams in the league, being in the top 10 for a given stat is hardly impressive is it.
Well, it's still the elite he competed against. It's about the same as if someone today would finish in the top ten for several years, although it might be harder today. Either way, one AST1 is not enough, today or back then.

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11-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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Iain Fyffe
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think a better question would be, "why should Lorne Chabot be inducted into the HHOF?" What makes him a better candidate than Dave Kerr, for example?
Indeed. That should always be the question. If you think he deserves it, make the case. The burden of proof (so to speak) is on the one making the claim.

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11-05-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Well, it's still the elite he competed against. It's about the same as if someone today would finish in the top ten for several years, although it might be harder today. Either way, one AST1 is not enough, today or back then.
To be fair, there were no official All-Star teams for the first four seasons of Chabot's career, although it's very unlikely he would have earned an All-Star nod in those seasons.

You'd also have to consider his four seasons of high-level senior hockey in the 1920s as well. But I've done a lot of work in this era and I can't see Chabot being at a high enough level to deserve the Hall of Fame.

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11-05-2012, 06:12 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Indeed. That should always be the question. If you think he deserves it, make the case. The burden of proof (so to speak) is on the one making the claim.
The case for Chabot would probably start with the lowest GAA in the playoff for a career (1.53). GAA of 2.03 in regular season is 4th all-time. 71 shutouts is 11th all-time and everyone ahead of him played more than his 412 games.

That's probably a good start.

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11-05-2012, 07:01 PM
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Theres actually a Blog that was setup by one of his Grandchildren that
makes a case for his induction along with a Petition you can e-sign.

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11-05-2012, 07:33 PM
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Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
The case for Chabot would probably start with the lowest GAA in the playoff for a career (1.53). GAA of 2.03 in regular season is 4th all-time. 71 shutouts is 11th all-time and everyone ahead of him played more than his 412 games.
I'll take a wild stab and guess that the top of the career playoff GAA leaderboard is largely populated by Chabot and his contemporaries.

Yep, just checked and six of the top eight all-time (minimum 25 games) are Chabot and his contemporaries Kerr, Benedict, Thompson, Roach and Hainsworth. This is not a coincidence. These same six are also all in the top 22 in career shutouts.

So making a case for Chabot based on raw numbers will be difficult, since all good goalies from his era posted superficially impressive numbers (to modern eyes).

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11-05-2012, 10:15 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
I'll take a wild stab and guess that the top of the career playoff GAA leaderboard is largely populated by Chabot and his contemporaries.

Yep, just checked and six of the top eight all-time (minimum 25 games) are Chabot and his contemporaries Kerr, Benedict, Thompson, Roach and Hainsworth. This is not a coincidence. These same six are also all in the top 22 in career shutouts.

So making a case for Chabot based on raw numbers will be difficult, since all good goalies from his era posted superficially impressive numbers (to modern eyes).
I must say, I'm going to be hard pressed to make a case for the guy without using his numbers. Especially when having the very best GAA in the playoffs (and quite significantly the best) is going to get him zero props.

Considering many of his contemporaries are HOFers, I'm wondering how they got in with their superficially impressive numbers?

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11-05-2012, 10:30 PM
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Start and Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
The case for Chabot would probably start with the lowest GAA in the playoff for a career (1.53). GAA of 2.03 in regular season is 4th all-time. 71 shutouts is 11th all-time and everyone ahead of him played more than his 412 games.

That's probably a good start.
Start and finish:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...chabolo01.html

Link to Lorne Chabot's stats:

Note the regular season numbers show a strong winning percentage BUT the playoffs with the leading GAA average show a sub 500 winning percentage.

Regardless of how good the numbers were there were goalies who were better than Chabot's best.

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11-06-2012, 12:40 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Considering many of his contemporaries are HOFers, I'm wondering how they got in with their superficially impressive numbers?
I guess that focuses the question a bit -- what did his HOF contemporaries do that Chabot couldn't match? Which isn't to assume that he couldn't indeed match them, but it's probably a nice short route to the heart of the matter.

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11-06-2012, 04:46 PM
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Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I must say, I'm going to be hard pressed to make a case for the guy without using his numbers. Especially when having the very best GAA in the playoffs (and quite significantly the best) is going to get him zero props.
Please note I said raw numbers. You need the context. The fact that his contemporaries dominate that particular leaderboard means that their low GAAs are heavily influenced by the era in which they played. So the raw numbers are not enough.

Please also note that I did not say it was worth nothing, just that presenting it as "best ever" is subject to some large chunks of salt.

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11-06-2012, 04:54 PM
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Big Phil
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I've never pushed for him to be in. Personally I'd like to see Vachon in before and in that case Barrasso. I get the feeling Vernon will be a lot like Chabot where as he'll never get in but later generations will wonder why. I've gone to bat for Vernon at different times but can certainly understand why he gets shafted as well.

Another thing with Chabot is that he never got a single Hart vote in his life. I know Gerry Cheevers likely didn't either, but we can all agree Cheevers is weak. Let's also not forget that this was an age when a goalie could win the Hart as well. It isn't as if they got shunned. Roy Worters won it in 1929.

There are other factors you have to consider as well. None of us saw hockey in the late 1920s and 1930s. So we base a lot of it on clippings and media reports and comparisons to their peers. Well, it's been almost 80 years since Chabot retired - 75 to be precise. When players started to get inducted there were many people around who saw Chabot play that were alive, and still covering the game. Year after year after year they passed him up. He was not among the backlog of players inducted. Even the weak veterans committee passed him up and they let in Edgar Laprade.

We see a player get passed up that deserves it (Oates, Gilmour) and we fight about it until they get in. Even if it takes a decade after they retired, they get in eventually because no one forgets them - for good reason. There has never been that fight to get Chabot in there and like another poster said he isn't the only one of his era that has those credentials. Dave Kerr would be at least as qualified as him and he isn't in there yet.

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