HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Luongo Thread - Waiting on the World to Change (Mod Warning in OP)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-06-2012, 03:09 PM
  #926
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Well if thats all you can give up & all you've continued to offer up & you hear the other side come back with no's consistently & it won't change why come back? (not you coming on our boards but if you were a GM)

If you are the one who is coming back then you are the real one in need. We can keep him until we get a better offer from someone else or until you get desperate & up your offer.
I'm sure GM's talk....maybe Burke knows nobody has topped his offer and is just seeing if Gillis is waivering a little. Burke has interest for obvious reasons,but until he hears that someone has upped the ante, why would he raise his offer. I'm sure he feels that Gillis IS going to move Luongo and until his offer isn't best, he'll stand pat.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:31 PM
  #927
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,830
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't see Colborne as having a higher ceiling than Schroeder or Gaunce. In fact, I think as more and more time passes Colborne is looking like he'll be nothing more than a bottom 6er.

Do you seriously think Kadri would be successful here? With how much of a stickler AV is for strong 2-way play, you think this is the right environment for Kadri to come in, knowing full well the crap he put up with in Toronto? He would likely last one season here before being waived, or dumped in a subsequent trade.

A cap dump should not be a key piece of a trade coming back to us.
Eventually one of Schroeder/Colborne would be moved, hopefully in a package for a player at the deadline. Colborne was battling with wrist injuries last year, but he should be fully recovered and NHL ready this season. He looked good in his brief stint a while back.

I think Kadri would be like Hodgson, able to play as a 3C, or even play wing on the 2nd line. Apart from the tensions having to do with his injuries, Hodgson did well, and I don't see why Kadri couldn't either.

If he's serviceable, why not? Connolly and Bozak are both tweener centres, having them on the 3rd line as insurance for any of the rookies we'll be trying out there is hardly a bad thing. It would only be for one year anyways. I'd prefer Bozak for cap purposes, but if taking Connolly means we get better futures, then I wouldn't mind taking him instead.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:33 PM
  #928
blue31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I normally don't respond to your posts as they are....well....nuts. BUT, you'd better start pushing Luongo at some top 5 teams...why? Because it's pretty hard to expect bottom 5 teams to "address the needs" of the 2 time Prez trophy winners.
You don't think the Oilers have enough to get it done, then?

blue31 is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:55 PM
  #929
The Kassian Train
228 LBS of Pain
 
The Kassian Train's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,123
vCash: 500
Dear Lifeleafer,

You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.

Sincerely,

A Canucks Fan who gets it.

The Kassian Train is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:00 PM
  #930
Vancouver_2010
Go Canucks & Oilers
 
Vancouver_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,143
vCash: 500
We don't need draft picks or prospects from the leafs, we need players that could contribute now.

Vancouver_2010 is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:03 PM
  #931
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue31 View Post
You don't think the Oilers have enough to get it done, then?
Any team "has enough" to get it done. The question is what does Edm feel are expendable players. I think they value the 1st highly, and if they deal Gagner, their center depth is almost as putrid as outs. It is as i've been saying, pieces some Nucks fans are asking for and calling fillers are actually key parts to a bottom 5 team with little depth.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:04 PM
  #932
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Dear Lifeleafer,

You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.

Sincerely,

A Canucks Fan who gets it.
That's not what he was offering

Scurr is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:07 PM
  #933
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
We don't need draft picks or prospects from the leafs, we need players that could contribute now.
We don't have those available unless Connolly/Lombardi/Kulimen/Franson appeal to you.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:07 PM
  #934
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,228
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Eventually one of Schroeder/Colborne would be moved, hopefully in a package for a player at the deadline. Colborne was battling with wrist injuries last year, but he should be fully recovered and NHL ready this season. He looked good in his brief stint a while back.

I think Kadri would be like Hodgson, able to play as a 3C, or even play wing on the 2nd line. Apart from the tensions having to do with his injuries, Hodgson did well, and I don't see why Kadri couldn't either.

If he's serviceable, why not? Connolly and Bozak are both tweener centres, having them on the 3rd line as insurance for any of the rookies we'll be trying out there is hardly a bad thing. It would only be for one year anyways. I'd prefer Bozak for cap purposes, but if taking Connolly means we get better futures, then I wouldn't mind taking him instead.
Neither Colborne or Kadri have looked good at all this year so far, albeit in a very short amount of time.

Kadri isn't as good as Hodgson, so I don't think he would be given the benefit of the doubt. Defensively he's actually even worse.

I guess I'm just glad you aren't the Canucks GM, and hope that Gillis doesn't see things your way. Dumping Luongo for questionable assets is just a bad mood.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:09 PM
  #935
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,228
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Dear Lifeleafer,

You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.

Sincerely,

A Canucks Fan who gets it.
Dear "Canucks Fan who gets it,"

Dumping Luongo for questionable assets does not make this team better. In fact, it makes this team worse. If Luongo does not bring back an asset that addresses one of our needs then we should just keep him.

Sincerely,

A Canucks Fan who doesn't want to dilute this team.

y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:12 PM
  #936
Liferleafer
Golf....again....
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
That's not what he was offering
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:22 PM
  #937
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,228
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
Of course you would offer that. A B prospect, a cap dump, and what would end up being a mid-1st round pick for an elite goalie is an amazing deal for Toronto. Not so much for Vancouver.

y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:23 PM
  #938
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
nevermind

Scurr is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:31 PM
  #939
PG Canuck
Global Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,499
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Except (if Botch is correct) we wouldn't have our #1C (Bozak), so who knows if Kessel/Lupul have PPG seasons.
Are you saying Bozak is the player that makes Lupul and Kessel PPG players?

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #940
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,830
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
You only get to use Colborne if Bozak is the 3rd piece. Otherwise I'd want it to be Kadri/Finn/1st.

So Colborne, one of Kadri/Finn/1st, and Bozak

or

2 of Kadri/Finn/1st and Connolly.

For me, at least.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #941
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Are you saying Bozak is the player that makes Lupul and Kessel PPG players?
I told you guys Bozak was good

Scurr is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:36 PM
  #942
Reverend Mayhem
Freeway's closed man
 
Reverend Mayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 940
Send a message via Skype™ to Reverend Mayhem
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Are you saying Bozak is the player that makes Lupul and Kessel PPG players?
Did he say that Bozak is better than Grabovski?

Reverend Mayhem is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:37 PM
  #943
I in the Eye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country:
Posts: 4,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
Congratulations! The willingness to trade a 1st just bought you an exclusive dinner date wih Luongo (and Gillis)... although, you are buying... If everything goes well at this dinner date, when it's time to trade Luongo, you will receive a phone call to place a serious bid - against all others who were invited and formally presented to Luongo as a possible destination - through their willingness to trade a 1st, and how well their dinner dates went... This might be anytime between hockey starts and before training camp next year... The phone call to place your bid may come at any time, or, it may not come at all if an asking price is reached with Florida... Sit tight, and good luck!

I in the Eye is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #944
PG Canuck
Global Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,499
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I told you guys Bozak was good
If I knew he was the only reason Kessel and Lupul became PPG players, I'd trade Luongo + Edler for Bozak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Did he say that Bozak is better than Grabovski?
I think he pretty much just did.

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:43 PM
  #945
SunshineRays
Registered User
 
SunshineRays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Basically, for the majority of Leafs fans, it's "soft deal" or no deal. And that's fine, because I cannot fathom Gillis doing that type of deal with Burke. Wrong 2 GMs involved.


Interestingly enough, I would love to see this interplay between GMs carry on into the season. In fact, I hope Gillis waits right up until the deadline. If TO is a bubble team at that point, it will be the moment of truth for Burke's tenure there. Exciting stuff.
I agree. I would suggest any fanbase has this 'soft deal or no deal' theory. It's not just regarding Luongo, it was the same for Nash and other other available players. It's tough for any fanbase to part with assets, people get attached to their teams players. No fan, I don't care how impartial they think they are, can look at this from a realistic standpoint (as a buyer).

Luckily, GM's make the final decisions. Gillis is somewhat arrogant (IMO), he's smart (1 yr removed form GM of the yr) and he's calculated. He doesn't make a deal unless he's happy with it, there's no incentive to do other wise this season. There's def no incentive for deals between Gillis/Burke. Gillis didn't even go to Abbotsford when Burke was there last wknd to scout the Marlies. That tells me everything.

I'd also like Lu to stay in Van till very minimum trade deadline. I need to 'know' Cory can handle the workload and stay injury free. 'If' there's hockey, there's gonna be a lot of games in a short period of time. For a team that travels more than any NHL team, Canucks will need 2 goalies to steal them games.

Also, people talking about '5 teams' is incorrect. It's 6, and that was well before any GM knew what the landscape looked like. I think the 'mystery team' might be the x-factor here.

SunshineRays is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:44 PM
  #946
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I get every point. But you are stating what you think Luongo's value is...period. Well, you may be right, but NONE of the interested teams can afford to pay that price. Do you think Rick Nash went for full value? I don't, but his NTC pretty much set the tone just as i feel Luongo's will. When the time comes, Luongo will present his list to Gillis and he will look at the best deals accordingly. Now, Gillis could play hardball with Luongo, but in the end, it will either be honour the list or waive him. He could also keep Luongo but IMO, that ship has sailed. This doesn't mean taking Komi and a 4th, but i believe getting "full value" is a pipedream for many reasons...such as age/contract/NTC/market.


Do you think a 1st + Kadri + Frattin + Bozak is "full value" for Lu? Interesting. It isn't. A 1st and a better prospect like Gardiner would be worth more than that package. It's of a higher quality. What's more, neither package fits a need. It's value for the sake of value. Reducing it's actual worth to VAN.



Nash got much more. Nash got two much better NHLers, both C/Ws, a much safer high end prospect, and a later 1st. And people still said Nash was had for a song.


Age - The difference between Nash and Lu is 6 yrs.


NTC - Both had them.


Contract - There are many that view Luongo's deal as much better than Nash's own. His cap hit is atrocious.


Market - 5 teams is enough. Perhaps more if things go awry for some during the season.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 06:17 PM
  #947
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
From the Canucks standpoint you are absolutely correct. From the Leafs standpoint it IS down to what we can give up. It doesn't matter what Gillis feels Luongo's value is, Burke will only pay so much. There is nothing written that says Burke must trade for Luongo no matter what. So, i'll ask again, what happens IF Burke's offer is best...do you sell lower?? Do you keep Luongo?


Keep Luongo. In fact, that's exactly what has happened to this point. Burke has refused to pay, and Lu is still in-house.


You're right Burke doesn't _have_ to deal for Lu. He only has to if he wants complete the deal. If he's ok with what he has, he can stand pat. Completely agree.


There is a timeline on Burke though. Every game his team plays without Lu, is a game they're more apt to lose due to poor goaltending. So while Gillis sits and waits, Burke is losing games. Follow that along and you end up with a pressure point for Burke: Do a deal or risk getting fired at the end of the year. Where as for Gillis it's do a deal or risk a disgruntled Luongo? Which is worse?


Time is not on Burke's side here. In a very real sense.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 06:37 PM
  #948
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Keep Luongo. In fact, that's exactly what has happened to this point. Burke has refused to pay, and Lu is still in-house.


You're right Burke doesn't _have_ to deal for Lu. He only has to if he wants complete the deal. If he's ok with what he has, he can stand pat. Completely agree.


There is a timeline on Burke though. Every game his team plays without Lu, is a game they're more apt to lose due to poor goaltending. So while Gillis sits and waits, Burke is losing games. Follow that along and you end up with a pressure point for Burke: Do a deal or risk getting fired at the end of the year. Where as for Gillis it's do a deal or risk a disgruntled Luongo? Which is worse?


Time is not on Burke's side here. In a very real sense.
At this point all we have to go on really, are gut feelings.

What does yours sqy?

I think we start the season...if there is one...with both Lou and Corey.

ddawg1950 is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 06:38 PM
  #949
Vancouver_2010
Go Canucks & Oilers
 
Vancouver_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
We don't have those available unless Connolly/Lombardi/Kulimen/Franson appeal to you.
Then there is no deal and Burke can be fired soon, maybe that is a good thing after all for the Leafs.

Vancouver_2010 is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 06:48 PM
  #950
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
At this point all we have to go on really, are gut feelings.

What does yours sqy?

I think we start the season...if there is one...with both Lou and Corey.


That's mine as well. Luongo and Schneider will be Canucks when the season starts.


I also think this is the smart move. Get a feeling for what the landscape is like. At the same time, Lu and Schneids put some work in to help this team in the short-term. It also puts pressure on Burke. Every game his team loses, he will be questioned.


Finally, we'll know what Theodore and FLA are doing. Maybe they come back into the mix in a big way... It's prudent to wait.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.