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Old
11-06-2012, 02:19 PM
  #51
5RingsAndABeer
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
How many goals has Yakupov scored in the NHL again? I forgot.


You'd think that on a forum called Hockey's Future, posters would be aware that prospects often have more value than established NHLers (let alone 1st overall calibre prospects).

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:22 PM
  #52
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IIRC, Phoenix's top five for the last draft was...

1. Galchenyuk 2. Forsberg 3. Murray 4. Yakupov 5. Reinhart

...so no. Phoenix probably would not trade Yandle for Yakupov.
If that was actually the Coyote's rankings, they should probably trade their entire scouting staff first. That's just horrendous and contradicts everything every other NHL scouting staff has released.

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11-06-2012, 02:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post


You'd think that on a forum called Hockey's Future, posters would be aware that prospects often have more value than established NHLers (let alone 1st overall calibre prospects).
I'll ask you the sane question. Would you trade Eberle for Gormley?

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11-06-2012, 02:39 PM
  #54
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I'll ask you the sane question. Would you trade Eberle for Gormley?
Are you implying that Gormley has more potential than Eberle?

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11-06-2012, 02:47 PM
  #55
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Are you implying that Gormley has more potential than Eberle?
Are you implying that Yakupov has more potential than Yandle? Nobody knows. Including you.

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11-06-2012, 03:49 PM
  #56
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I'll ask you the sane question. Would you trade Eberle for Gormley?
Bingo!!! I was going to post the same thing about gormley.

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11-06-2012, 04:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Are you implying that Yakupov has more potential than Yandle? Nobody knows. Including you.
Nail Yakupov has more potential than Yandle. Yakupov is far more of a sure thing than Gormley, and has far more potential.

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11-06-2012, 04:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
I'll ask you the sane question. Would you trade Eberle for Gormley?
Please don't equate Gormley to Yakupov. They're on completely different levels.

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11-06-2012, 05:59 PM
  #59
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Please don't equate Gormley to Yakupov. They're on completely different levels.
Oh really? Huh. Sorry dude. My bad.

Hey, while i have you, could you look into your crystal ball and tell me who is going to win the U.S. presidential election? I am getting too impatient and don't want to wait.

How do you know? Seriously? He may be more hyped than Gormley but that doesn't mean ****.

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11-06-2012, 09:18 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Oh really? Huh. Sorry dude. My bad.

Hey, while i have you, could you look into your crystal ball and tell me who is going to win the U.S. presidential election? I am getting too impatient and don't want to wait.

How do you know? Seriously? He may be more hyped than Gormley but that doesn't mean ****.
Really?

I get the fact Yotes fans don't want to trade an established d-man for potential at this point, but your comparison is not helping your cause at all.

Yakupov has more potential than Gormley, this is not debateable. For that comparison to be valid you would need to be asking whether the Oilers would have traded an established Eberle for a top 3 defenseman after the draft, i.e. Doughty, Pietrangelo, Hedman, or Seth Jones after next year.

No one in this thread is predicting the future and telling you with 100% certainty Yakupov will be better, but history is on the side of Yakupov that is clear.

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Old
11-06-2012, 09:19 PM
  #61
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If I were the Yotes, I would just be happy with a core group of Yandle, OEL, and Gormely on the back end for a while and try to add additional scoring through the draft this year or via the trade and UFA market.

It might be tough to attract UFAs until there is some certainty as far as relocation goes in the future, but the trade market is always open as well.

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11-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Are you implying that Yakupov has more potential than Yandle? Nobody knows. Including you.
I would say that the 19 year old first overall pick who is tearing up the KHL has more potential than Yandle

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11-06-2012, 10:54 PM
  #63
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I wouldn't pay that price for Hanzal, even though he is a great player. Phoenix would need an overpayment for him though, so it might work. I would imagine he's on the "untouchable" list, probably ahead of everyone else on their team aside from Oliver Ekman-Larson, simply due to what he brings to the table.

I'd be interested to know what Phoenix would want for Keith Yandle though. And I mean realistically, not asking for the moon.

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11-06-2012, 10:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
If that was actually the Coyote's rankings, they should probably trade their entire scouting staff first. That's just horrendous and contradicts everything every other NHL scouting staff has released.
I find it hilarious that 29 teams had Yakupov ranked first (according to Bob Mackenzie), yet Toronto and Phoenix are both claiming to be the one team that didn't. Or HF posters are making things up.

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11-06-2012, 11:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Your sarcasm is neither funny nor clever seeing as he is absolutely right. Let's trade an established number 1 defenseman for someone who is hyped, but hasn't done jack**** in the NHL. Doesn't make sense.

Despite what you may think, busts DO happen from time to time. I'm not saying he will be a bust, i actually think he'll turn out better than Hall. With that said, still doesn't change the fact that he is still unproven and a trade like that is too big of a risk. Would you trade Eberle for Gormley? Probably not.
Your line of thinking is a bit flawed. Yes, busts happen. But seeing how Yakupov dominated last season in junior, and is dominating now as a pro (albeit in a different league), and the fact that almost every team had him ranked to go first overall and everyone in the know thinks he will jump to the NHL and not lose a step, I don't see how his value is anything but through the roof. Rookie contracts and all that jazz. Especially when you consider that Phoenix's biggest strength is their defense, and their biggest weakness is pure scoring threats. Yandle for Yakupov makes much more sense to Phoenix than it does to Edmonton.

And might I add...


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11-06-2012, 11:31 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I wouldn't pay that price for Hanzal, even though he is a great player. Phoenix would need an overpayment for him though, so it might work. I would imagine he's on the "untouchable" list, probably ahead of everyone else on their team aside from Oliver Ekman-Larson, simply due to what he brings to the table.

I'd be interested to know what Phoenix would want for Keith Yandle though. And I mean realistically, not asking for the moon.
Judging from the responses, there is no deal to be made for Yandle.

Most Yotes fans are asking for untouchables and don't think anything else will get it done.

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11-06-2012, 11:33 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Nail Yakupov has more potential than Yandle. Yakupov is far more of a sure thing than Gormley, and has far more potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whooers View Post
I would say that the 19 year old first overall pick who is tearing up the KHL has more potential than Yandle
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Your line of thinking is a bit flawed. Yes, busts happen. But seeing how Yakupov dominated last season in junior, and is dominating now as a pro (albeit in a different league), and the fact that almost every team had him ranked to go first overall and everyone in the know thinks he will jump to the NHL and not lose a step, I don't see how his value is anything but through the roof. Rookie contracts and all that jazz. Especially when you consider that Phoenix's biggest strength is their defense, and their biggest weakness is pure scoring threats. Yandle for Yakupov makes much more sense to Phoenix than it does to Edmonton.

And might I add...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Really?

I get the fact Yotes fans don't want to trade an established d-man for potential at this point, but your comparison is not helping your cause at all.

Yakupov has more potential than Gormley, this is not debateable. For that comparison to be valid you would need to be asking whether the Oilers would have traded an established Eberle for a top 3 defenseman after the draft, i.e. Doughty, Pietrangelo, Hedman, or Seth Jones after next year.

No one in this thread is predicting the future and telling you with 100% certainty Yakupov will be better, but history is on the side of Yakupov that is clear.
Really. I get that he looks to have more potential than Yandle, seeing as Yandle has already reached what looks to be his peak. I even agree with the fact that he may turn out to be more of an effective player than Yandle, but to sit here and say "Oh, well Yakupov will be better than Yandle for sure" is a little naive. Let me tell you why, first off, Yandle has proven to be effective in the NHL, Yakupov hasnt. Secondly, all of your arguments are hypocritical. Why are you guys all getting angry with me when you are doing the same? You are saying that Gormley will never be better than Eberle, when Gormley has bever played an NHL game. Yet, you are telling me that Yakupov will be better than Yandle, when Yakupov has never played an NHL game. You guys are making yourselves look biased and naive.

Am i saying Yak will never be a better hockey player than Yandle? No. I'm not biased.

Am i saying Gormley will be better than Eberle? Nope.

What I'm saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge. So stop trying. Some GM's are more comfortable with proven talent rather than potential. Accept it.

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11-06-2012, 11:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Oh really? Huh. Sorry dude. My bad.

Hey, while i have you, could you look into your crystal ball and tell me who is going to win the U.S. presidential election? I am getting too impatient and don't want to wait.

How do you know? Seriously? He may be more hyped than Gormley but that doesn't mean ****.
Oh how I wish I'd seen this post before it was too late to tell you. You know that the outcome of elections are correctly predicted ALL THE TIME, right? Nice analogy...

Scouts are not dumb.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:50 PM
  #69
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Really. I get that he looks to have more potential than Yandle, seeing as Yandle has already reached what looks to be his peak. I even agree with the fact that he may turn out to be more of an effective player than Yandle, but to sit here and say "Oh, well Yakupov will be better than Yandle for sure" is a little naive. Let me tell you why, first off, Yandle has proven to be effective in the NHL, Yakupov hasnt. Secondly, all of your arguments are hypocritical. Why are you guys all getting angry with me when you are doing the same? You are saying that Gormley will never be better than Eberle, when Gormley has bever played an NHL game. Yet, you are telling me that Yakupov will be better than Yandle, when Yakupov has never played an NHL game. You guys are making yourselves look biased and naive.

Am i saying Yak will never be a better hockey player than Yandle? No. I'm not biased.

Am i saying Gormley will be better than Eberle? Nope.

What I'm saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge. So stop trying. Some GM's are more comfortable with proven talent rather than potential. Accept it.
Well, the comparison was the potential between Yakupov and Gormley, not Yakupov and Yandle. You brought up the Gormely/Eberle comparison, but it's not really all that similar, which is what most of us were pointing out.

As far as Yandle goes, he has reached the level of play every team wants, and I'm sure the Oilers would love to have him, just not at the expense of the kids. I'm more than alright if Yotes want to keep him instead, he's an important piece going forward.

They will likely try to trade non-core assets, ie gagner, Paajarvi, hemsky, etc to add some help on the blue line.

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11-07-2012, 12:27 AM
  #70
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MY comparison started as a question. Which is what I'm talking about, and was what started this whole debate. People are stumped as to why Phoenix would be hesitant to trade Yandle for Yakupov, which i then countered with the similar situation in which if EDM fans would be comfortable trading Eberle for Gormley. Unproven prospect for young effective player, both ways. The argument then turned into a dick measuring competition which implied that it wasn't a fair comparison seeing as unproven prospect A (Yakupov) is WAY better than unproven prospect B (Gormley), and that Eberle is worth more than Yandle. The latter part may be true, and i just might agree with it, but most people forget that Gormley was ranked and expected to go 3rd or 4th overall. Two different positions, point production should not be a factor on who is better. Especially seeing as neither have plaed a friggin NHL game yet. Was Ray Whitney a better player than Nik Lidstrom? Hard to tell eh?

Now before i get jumped again, I AM NOT SAYING GORMLEY IS BETTER THAN YAKUPOV. Case closed.

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11-07-2012, 12:54 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post

Yakupov has more potential than Gormley, this is not debateable.
If you are saying he has more potential to be a bust at the NHL level, then I understand why you think it is not debateable.

If you are saying he has more scoring potential at the NHL level, then I understand why you think it is not debateable.

If you are saying he has more potential to be an upper echelon NHL player, then I don't understand how you can say it is not debateable.

When discussing Yakupov and Gormley in regards to the potential that NHL GM's care about, very little is not debateable....

In Video game hockey Yakupov has more potential than Gormley, this is not debateable.

After the next draft, around 80% of members of this website will think GM's screwed up by picking Seth Jones instead of some of the forwards who are picked right after him. That is not debateable.

back to the topic on hand...how many players have signed 5 year contracts to play for the Coyotes, effectively saying they want to be Coyotes and play hockey in Arizona...compared to how many have taken whatever route they had to in order to force their way out of Arizona? That seems to be the forgotten reason why you don't trade Hanzal or Yandle if you are Coyotes management....barring severe overpayment.

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11-07-2012, 01:18 AM
  #72
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Really. I get that he looks to have more potential than Yandle, seeing as Yandle has already reached what looks to be his peak. I even agree with the fact that he may turn out to be more of an effective player than Yandle, but to sit here and say "Oh, well Yakupov will be better than Yandle for sure" is a little naive. Let me tell you why, first off, Yandle has proven to be effective in the NHL, Yakupov hasnt. Secondly, all of your arguments are hypocritical. Why are you guys all getting angry with me when you are doing the same? You are saying that Gormley will never be better than Eberle, when Gormley has bever played an NHL game. Yet, you are telling me that Yakupov will be better than Yandle, when Yakupov has never played an NHL game. You guys are making yourselves look biased and naive.

Am i saying Yak will never be a better hockey player than Yandle? No. I'm not biased.

Am i saying Gormley will be better than Eberle? Nope.

What I'm saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge. So stop trying. Some GM's are more comfortable with proven talent rather than potential. Accept it.
Projections bro. By folk smarter than you or I.

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11-07-2012, 01:23 AM
  #73
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Was Ray Whitney a better player than Nik Lidstrom? Hard to tell eh?
No, its not. Lidstrom was much better.

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11-07-2012, 02:04 AM
  #74
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Also, arguing that a 1st overall pick that's a pure goal scorer has no NHL goals, really? Well, I suppose you could argue to the unproven angle, but history wouldn't be on your side. Not to mention if you take 5 minutes to watch the kid play its pretty clear the guy is going to be a player.
He is unproven. It doesn't matter how much hype there is. A team that just went deep in the playoffs has no business trading a key piece for something unproven, however appetizing. I personally believe Yakupov will be a great player, possibly greater than Yandle. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for a team to make that trade. You see trades like that when a player wants out, when there are salary issues and when a team is really looking for change or to rebuild.

Phoenix and Yandle don't meet any of those qualifications. He's probably the next captain and has a pretty good contract. We're only having this conversation in the first place because OEL has emerged as a franchise player. I have no doubt that Yakupov will be great, but Maloney would not and should not make that trade. This is not a videogame.

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11-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #75
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Projections bro. By folk smarter than you or I.
Exactly. So but projections don't put up numbers, they provide hope. So let's not jump the gun here. We still do not know who will turn out to be the better hockey player in the NHL. We can make an educated guess, but we won't know.

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