Well if thats all you can give up & all you've continued to offer up & you hear the other side come back with no's consistently & it won't change why come back? (not you coming on our boards but if you were a GM)
If you are the one who is coming back then you are the real one in need. We can keep him until we get a better offer from someone else or until you get desperate & up your offer.
I'm sure GM's talk....maybe Burke knows nobody has topped his offer and is just seeing if Gillis is waivering a little. Burke has interest for obvious reasons,but until he hears that someone has upped the ante, why would he raise his offer. I'm sure he feels that Gillis IS going to move Luongo and until his offer isn't best, he'll stand pat.
I don't see Colborne as having a higher ceiling than Schroeder or Gaunce. In fact, I think as more and more time passes Colborne is looking like he'll be nothing more than a bottom 6er.
Do you seriously think Kadri would be successful here? With how much of a stickler AV is for strong 2-way play, you think this is the right environment for Kadri to come in, knowing full well the crap he put up with in Toronto? He would likely last one season here before being waived, or dumped in a subsequent trade.
A cap dump should not be a key piece of a trade coming back to us.
Eventually one of Schroeder/Colborne would be moved, hopefully in a package for a player at the deadline. Colborne was battling with wrist injuries last year, but he should be fully recovered and NHL ready this season. He looked good in his brief stint a while back.
I think Kadri would be like Hodgson, able to play as a 3C, or even play wing on the 2nd line. Apart from the tensions having to do with his injuries, Hodgson did well, and I don't see why Kadri couldn't either.
If he's serviceable, why not? Connolly and Bozak are both tweener centres, having them on the 3rd line as insurance for any of the rookies we'll be trying out there is hardly a bad thing. It would only be for one year anyways. I'd prefer Bozak for cap purposes, but if taking Connolly means we get better futures, then I wouldn't mind taking him instead.
I normally don't respond to your posts as they are....well....nuts. BUT, you'd better start pushing Luongo at some top 5 teams...why? Because it's pretty hard to expect bottom 5 teams to "address the needs" of the 2 time Prez trophy winners.
You don't think the Oilers have enough to get it done, then?
You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.
You don't think the Oilers have enough to get it done, then?
Any team "has enough" to get it done. The question is what does Edm feel are expendable players. I think they value the 1st highly, and if they deal Gagner, their center depth is almost as putrid as outs. It is as i've been saying, pieces some Nucks fans are asking for and calling fillers are actually key parts to a bottom 5 team with little depth.
You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.
Eventually one of Schroeder/Colborne would be moved, hopefully in a package for a player at the deadline. Colborne was battling with wrist injuries last year, but he should be fully recovered and NHL ready this season. He looked good in his brief stint a while back.
I think Kadri would be like Hodgson, able to play as a 3C, or even play wing on the 2nd line. Apart from the tensions having to do with his injuries, Hodgson did well, and I don't see why Kadri couldn't either.
If he's serviceable, why not? Connolly and Bozak are both tweener centres, having them on the 3rd line as insurance for any of the rookies we'll be trying out there is hardly a bad thing. It would only be for one year anyways. I'd prefer Bozak for cap purposes, but if taking Connolly means we get better futures, then I wouldn't mind taking him instead.
Neither Colborne or Kadri have looked good at all this year so far, albeit in a very short amount of time.
Kadri isn't as good as Hodgson, so I don't think he would be given the benefit of the doubt. Defensively he's actually even worse.
I guess I'm just glad you aren't the Canucks GM, and hope that Gillis doesn't see things your way. Dumping Luongo for questionable assets is just a bad mood.
__________________
I told ya so. I was right all along!
You are gong to have to take some things said by Canucks fans with a grain of salt. Finn / Colborne / Kadri +1st + a 3rd piece would be more than reasonable.
Sincerely,
A Canucks Fan who gets it.
Dear "Canucks Fan who gets it,"
Dumping Luongo for questionable assets does not make this team better. In fact, it makes this team worse. If Luongo does not bring back an asset that addresses one of our needs then we should just keep him.
Sincerely,
A Canucks Fan who doesn't want to dilute this team.
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
Of course you would offer that. A B prospect, a cap dump, and what would end up being a mid-1st round pick for an elite goalie is an amazing deal for Toronto. Not so much for Vancouver.
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
You only get to use Colborne if Bozak is the 3rd piece. Otherwise I'd want it to be Kadri/Finn/1st.
I would actually do Colborne,Connolly/Lombardi and a 1st. ( i'll get roasted by other Leaf fans for offering the 1st). This were Y2K inserts his"offer is trash" post.
Congratulations! The willingness to trade a 1st just bought you an exclusive dinner date wih Luongo (and Gillis)... although, you are buying... If everything goes well at this dinner date, when it's time to trade Luongo, you will receive a phone call to place a serious bid - against all others who were invited and formally presented to Luongo as a possible destination - through their willingness to trade a 1st, and how well their dinner dates went... This might be anytime between hockey starts and before training camp next year... The phone call to place your bid may come at any time, or, it may not come at all if an asking price is reached with Florida... Sit tight, and good luck!
Basically, for the majority of Leafs fans, it's "soft deal" or no deal. And that's fine, because I cannot fathom Gillis doing that type of deal with Burke. Wrong 2 GMs involved.
Interestingly enough, I would love to see this interplay between GMs carry on into the season. In fact, I hope Gillis waits right up until the deadline. If TO is a bubble team at that point, it will be the moment of truth for Burke's tenure there. Exciting stuff.
I agree. I would suggest any fanbase has this 'soft deal or no deal' theory. It's not just regarding Luongo, it was the same for Nash and other other available players. It's tough for any fanbase to part with assets, people get attached to their teams players. No fan, I don't care how impartial they think they are, can look at this from a realistic standpoint (as a buyer).
Luckily, GM's make the final decisions. Gillis is somewhat arrogant (IMO), he's smart (1 yr removed form GM of the yr) and he's calculated. He doesn't make a deal unless he's happy with it, there's no incentive to do other wise this season. There's def no incentive for deals between Gillis/Burke. Gillis didn't even go to Abbotsford when Burke was there last wknd to scout the Marlies. That tells me everything.
I'd also like Lu to stay in Van till very minimum trade deadline. I need to 'know' Cory can handle the workload and stay injury free. 'If' there's hockey, there's gonna be a lot of games in a short period of time. For a team that travels more than any NHL team, Canucks will need 2 goalies to steal them games.
Also, people talking about '5 teams' is incorrect. It's 6, and that was well before any GM knew what the landscape looked like. I think the 'mystery team' might be the x-factor here.
I get every point. But you are stating what you think Luongo's value is...period. Well, you may be right, but NONE of the interested teams can afford to pay that price. Do you think Rick Nash went for full value? I don't, but his NTC pretty much set the tone just as i feel Luongo's will. When the time comes, Luongo will present his list to Gillis and he will look at the best deals accordingly. Now, Gillis could play hardball with Luongo, but in the end, it will either be honour the list or waive him. He could also keep Luongo but IMO, that ship has sailed. This doesn't mean taking Komi and a 4th, but i believe getting "full value" is a pipedream for many reasons...such as age/contract/NTC/market.
Do you think a 1st + Kadri + Frattin + Bozak is "full value" for Lu? Interesting. It isn't. A 1st and a better prospect like Gardiner would be worth more than that package. It's of a higher quality. What's more, neither package fits a need. It's value for the sake of value. Reducing it's actual worth to VAN.
Nash got much more. Nash got two much better NHLers, both C/Ws, a much safer high end prospect, and a later 1st. And people still said Nash was had for a song.
Age - The difference between Nash and Lu is 6 yrs.
NTC - Both had them.
Contract - There are many that view Luongo's deal as much better than Nash's own. His cap hit is atrocious.
Market - 5 teams is enough. Perhaps more if things go awry for some during the season.
From the Canucks standpoint you are absolutely correct. From the Leafs standpoint it IS down to what we can give up. It doesn't matter what Gillis feels Luongo's value is, Burke will only pay so much. There is nothing written that says Burke must trade for Luongo no matter what. So, i'll ask again, what happens IF Burke's offer is best...do you sell lower?? Do you keep Luongo?
Keep Luongo. In fact, that's exactly what has happened to this point. Burke has refused to pay, and Lu is still in-house.
You're right Burke doesn't _have_ to deal for Lu. He only has to if he wants complete the deal. If he's ok with what he has, he can stand pat. Completely agree.
There is a timeline on Burke though. Every game his team plays without Lu, is a game they're more apt to lose due to poor goaltending. So while Gillis sits and waits, Burke is losing games. Follow that along and you end up with a pressure point for Burke: Do a deal or risk getting fired at the end of the year. Where as for Gillis it's do a deal or risk a disgruntled Luongo? Which is worse?
Time is not on Burke's side here. In a very real sense.
Keep Luongo. In fact, that's exactly what has happened to this point. Burke has refused to pay, and Lu is still in-house.
You're right Burke doesn't _have_ to deal for Lu. He only has to if he wants complete the deal. If he's ok with what he has, he can stand pat. Completely agree.
There is a timeline on Burke though. Every game his team plays without Lu, is a game they're more apt to lose due to poor goaltending. So while Gillis sits and waits, Burke is losing games. Follow that along and you end up with a pressure point for Burke: Do a deal or risk getting fired at the end of the year. Where as for Gillis it's do a deal or risk a disgruntled Luongo? Which is worse?
Time is not on Burke's side here. In a very real sense.
At this point all we have to go on really, are gut feelings.
What does yours sqy?
I think we start the season...if there is one...with both Lou and Corey.
At this point all we have to go on really, are gut feelings.
What does yours sqy?
I think we start the season...if there is one...with both Lou and Corey.
That's mine as well. Luongo and Schneider will be Canucks when the season starts.
I also think this is the smart move. Get a feeling for what the landscape is like. At the same time, Lu and Schneids put some work in to help this team in the short-term. It also puts pressure on Burke. Every game his team loses, he will be questioned.
Finally, we'll know what Theodore and FLA are doing. Maybe they come back into the mix in a big way... It's prudent to wait.
