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Old
11-06-2012, 03:14 AM
  #26
Xav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I'm almost embarrassed to see fellow Canucks fans claiming that Lu is more valuable than Marleau. I would trade Luongo for Marleau in a heartbeat, and happily add to it to boot.
Bahaha just imagining our line up with Marleau instead of Luongo.

Sedin - Sedin- Burrows
Booth - Marleau - Kesler
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian
Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Schneider
Lack

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:36 AM
  #27
Seatoo
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Change Clowe to Pavelski and I'd do it. 2 upcoming UFAs and a swap of 1sts for Luo Raymond and Booth? Terrible. Just terrible.

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:45 AM
  #28
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Clowe is not going anywhere!

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Old
11-06-2012, 08:04 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I'm almost embarrassed to see fellow Canucks fans claiming that Lu is more valuable than Marleau. I would trade Luongo for Marleau in a heartbeat, and happily add to it to boot.
As a Canucks fan, I would take Marleau out of need and would be glad to do it.

If I was a team who needed both a starting goalie and a #1 C/W I would likely take Luongo ahead of Marleau. I also think that Luongo is more likely to make the HHOF than Marleau and as a result more likely to have historical significance.

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Old
11-06-2012, 08:34 AM
  #30
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Take Marleau and Luongo out of the deal and give Toronto the first rounders, and this proposal doesn't look so strange.

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Old
11-06-2012, 08:41 AM
  #31
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Garbage trade for the Sharks. Luongo is not the most valuable piece but he is valuable to some set of teams out there. Goalie values are the lowest of all the positions, like it or not. Luongo may be the better player with more overall impact than Marleau but Marleau holds more value because of simple supply and demand.

Doesn't matter anyway because the Sharks would never trade Marleau unless he asked for it and he's not asking to go to Toronto.

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Old
11-06-2012, 10:48 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Change Clowe to Pavelski and I'd do it. 2 upcoming UFAs and a swap of 1sts for Luo Raymond and Booth? Terrible. Just terrible.
Why not give a 7th round pick instead of Booth and have San Jose add Couture along with their first if you aren't even going to pretend like they should get something out of the trade.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:36 AM
  #33
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VAN fans that think Luongo is worth more you are wrong.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:39 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksCupHopes View Post
To Vancouver:Ryan Clowe,Tyler Bozak, San Jose 1st 2013

To Toronto:Roberto Luongo, Mason Raymond, Patrick Marleau

To San Jose: David Booth, Vancouver 1st 2013, Toronto 2nd 2013, Nik Kulimen, Nazam Kadri, Clarke Mcarthur,Joffery Lupul


It's not gonna happen but I think it has good value.

Thoughts?


Edit:I added in Lupul does it make a bigger difference?
If only you can convince Doug Wilson that it is a good idea to transform a significant chunk of his playoff team into a significant chunk of the 25th placed Toronto Maple Leafs.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:41 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
Why not give a 7th round pick instead of Booth and have San Jose add Couture along with their first if you aren't even going to pretend like they should get something out of the trade.
It seems as if you completely misread my post!

My point wasn't that the Canucks should give less..it was that for what they are giving up, the return is absolutely horrible.

Luo(Locked up), Booth(Locked up), Raymond(UFA Next Year), 1st

for

Clowe (UFA Next Year), Bozak (UFA Next Year) and a 1st



In that deal the Canucks get hosed, its almost as a bad of a trade as when we traded Cam Neely. What I said was for trading an elite #1 goalie a 2nd line Power Forward, a middle 6 winger with speed and a first round pick in a deep draft is bad enough to get a GM fired and never rehired ever again. For those assets I would go for Pavelski or bust, and by the way I FULLY expect SJS fans to recoil in fear/shock/anger. This is a trade that would never, ever happen which is why it is funny to see people get all bent out of shape about it as if their GM came here and was like "HAY GUIZ WAT DO U THINK LOLZ"

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Isn't that point me? I could take the top-120 forwards and compare the ratios of 35+ players in that group to the ratio in the top-10 goalies if you like, but I think I'll like the results more than you.

It's just a fact. Most goaltenders fall off a cliff around age 33. I'm not saying that Luongo is definitely one of them. I'm just saying that the idea that forwards lose elite play earlier than forwards do is wrong.

EDIT: Anyway, I'm done. I don't mean to pick a fight, I just wanna talk hockey with someone.
Sounds fair to me. I'm afraid sometimes I just like poking holes in others' arguments. We seem to do this in every San Jose-Canucks thread....we really need a neutral proposal to talk hockey in Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I'm almost embarrassed to see fellow Canucks fans claiming that Lu is more valuable than Marleau. I would trade Luongo for Marleau in a heartbeat, and happily add to it to boot.
To my defense, I only argued that Luongo is more valuable to us then to San Jose, and Marleau is more valuable to San Jose then to us. I think Luongo is more valuable then Clowe is all.

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:34 PM
  #37
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
VAN fans that think Luongo is worth more you are wrong.
You think Luongo is worth less than Tyler Bozak(upcoming UFA) straight up? Because Booth vs Clowe(upcoming UFA) is probably a wash valuewise, as are the 1sts. And we also add Raymond.

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:36 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
VAN fans that think Luongo is worth more you are wrong.
Nobody is wrong until proven wrong.

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:59 PM
  #39
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The Sharks get completely hosed in this deal. We trade two top 6 wingers for players/stuff we don't need.

Toronto absolutely cleans house here.

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:26 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
It seems as if you completely misread my post!

My point wasn't that the Canucks should give less..it was that for what they are giving up, the return is absolutely horrible.

Luo(Locked up), Booth(Locked up), Raymond(UFA Next Year), 1st

for

Clowe (UFA Next Year), Bozak (UFA Next Year) and a 1st



In that deal the Canucks get hosed, its almost as a bad of a trade as when we traded Cam Neely. What I said was for trading an elite #1 goalie a 2nd line Power Forward, a middle 6 winger with speed and a first round pick in a deep draft is bad enough to get a GM fired and never rehired ever again. For those assets I would go for Pavelski or bust, and by the way I FULLY expect SJS fans to recoil in fear/shock/anger. This is a trade that would never, ever happen which is why it is funny to see people get all bent out of shape about it as if their GM came here and was like "HAY GUIZ WAT DO U THINK LOLZ"
I read your post, and got your point. The only team that comes out ahead in the trade is Toronto. The Nucks merely make a bad trade, and the sharks are just thrown in to make things better for the leafs.

My point was that you made no effort to make the trade better on the whole, while taking it from "sharks get hosed" to "sharks get completely screwed" and I figured why not take it to "sharks get invited to go canoeing in the Georgia wilderness with Burt Reynolds"

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:33 PM
  #41
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Uh, Toronto gets gutted on the wing. I'd consider it if Lupul wasn't part of the deal.

Leafs next year would look like this:

??? - Marleau - Kessel
Raymond - Grabovski - Frattin
??? - McClement - ???
Komorov - Steckel - Brown

Yikes.


Last edited by BonMorrison: 11-06-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old
11-06-2012, 01:40 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
VAN fans that think Luongo is worth more you are wrong.
No you're wrong




see how idiotic it sounds to tell people who is wrong & who isn't when no one has the correct answer

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:34 PM
  #43
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So what else is new ...
Wrong.




You dont hose a shark you chum them

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Marleau is certainly more valuable than Luongo.

I love how you claim that forwards can lose their impact/explosiveness earliest out of all positions when the player you're talking about had his three best goal-scoring seasons at ages 29-31. In fact, it's a generally accepted fact that most goaltenders experience a significant drop in performance level at age 32-33.

Cap hit is favoring Luongo? Come on, you mention that, and don't mention that Marleau's off the books in a year and a half (and will be due for a pay cut), but Luongo is on the books until the end of time? Talk about manipulating the facts.

Anyway, personally I don't at all like Lupul, so his inclusion doesn't do anything for me. But it does wreck the Leafs forwards. Do they even have anyone left but Kessel, Grabovski, JVR, and Marleau? Yuck.
If you read the post more clearly I did comment on the Luongo's contract length. If you believe that forwards play longer then goalies then that is your opinion, but please do some more research. Also when comparing who is better ask yourself all time who has produced better numbers. Luongo is currently 17th all time in wins and could easily break top 5 with 5-6 more 20 win seasons which is very conservative. In fact 3rd all time is realistically attainable. Marleau is a good player and has been an all star at stages in his career, but comparing relative stats they aren't even close.

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Old
11-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #45
Seatoo
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Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
I read your post, and got your point. The only team that comes out ahead in the trade is Toronto. The Nucks merely make a bad trade, and the sharks are just thrown in to make things better for the leafs.

My point was that you made no effort to make the trade better on the whole, while taking it from "sharks get hosed" to "sharks get completely screwed" and I figured why not take it to "sharks get invited to go canoeing in the Georgia wilderness with Burt Reynolds"
To Vancouver:
Pavelski
Frattin
Blacker
Reimer/B prospect

To San Jose:
Luongo
Booth
Kulemin
Bozak
Lupul
Toronto 2014 1st


To Toronto:
Raymond
Marleau
Neimi
Schroder
Van 2013 1st


Just put that together while sitting on the porcelain throne, feel free to pick it apart!

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Old
11-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #46
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
To Vancouver:
Pavelski
Frattin
Blacker
Reimer/B prospect

To San Jose:
Luongo
Booth
Kulemin
Bozak
Lupul
Toronto 2014 1st


To Toronto:
Raymond
Marleau
Neimi
Schroder
Van 2013 1st


Just put that together while sitting on the porcelain throne, feel free to pick it apart!
SJ will hate on you for sending them Luongo, and giving up Pavelski and Marleau(although they are compensated with quite a bit). But overall it's too unwieldy, and I'm pretty sure Vancouver gets the shorter end of the stick for that one.

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Old
11-06-2012, 05:44 PM
  #47
Seatoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
SJ will hate on you for sending them Luongo, and giving up Pavelski and Marleau(although they are compensated with quite a bit). But overall it's too unwieldy, and I'm pretty sure Vancouver gets the shorter end of the stick for that one.
Of the 3 teams VAN does the worst, but we get Pavelski! Him with Kesler would be god mode IMHO.

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Old
11-06-2012, 06:16 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
To Vancouver:
Pavelski
Frattin
Blacker
Reimer/B prospect

To San Jose:
Luongo
Booth
Kulemin
Bozak
Lupul
Toronto 2014 1st


To Toronto:
Raymond
Marleau
Neimi
Schroder
Van 2013 1st


Just put that together while sitting on the porcelain throne, feel free to pick it apart!
There is no way in hell I'm giving up Pavelski and Marleau in the same trade. I don't want Luongo, I don't want Bozak, I don't want Lupul, and Toronto's first in 2014 would be middle of the pack. Big ****ing now.

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