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John Tavares

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:07 PM
  #76
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I don't see why trades couldn't happen, but ok, yes he would have more value then a 3rd, but he's a rental and NYI simply isn't looking for that. He doesn't hold much value if any at all for them.
No trades can happen without a CBA.

And as I said, this is assuming Edler is willing to re-sign long-term with them, which is no less unrealistic than Spezza waiving his NTC.

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11-06-2012, 11:11 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No trades can happen without a CBA.

And as I said, this is assuming Edler is willing to re-sign long-term with them, which is no less unrealistic than Spezza waiving his NTC.
Yes, and this would have to be determined beforehand (opposite of Kovalchuk, etc) for NYI to even consider this. Which means it is a sign and trade, or Edler negotiating with NYI before the trade. Which never happens ever. And Edler would not return the value of a top pair defenseman regardless. He just doesn't have the value you think he does. Spezza waiving is more likely than Edler negoatiating a contract with NYI during the season. Come on man.

Especially if the Sens tell Spezza they don't want him.

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11-06-2012, 11:14 PM
  #78
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''extended Edler'' means either

-Edler is signed by Vancouver and traded
-Edler negotiates with NYI and agrees to deal, then signs after trade

There is less than 0% chance of this happening during the season.


Edler has the value of a rental. NYI don't want rentals. Makes no sense.

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11-06-2012, 11:16 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No trades can happen without a CBA.

And as I said, this is assuming Edler is willing to re-sign long-term with them, which is no less unrealistic than Spezza waiving his NTC.
If they can negotiate with him prior the trade, and Edler is really willing to sign with them long term..... then why not just not trading for him and just wait until he become UFA then sign him?

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11-06-2012, 11:19 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

The NHL is pretty serious about changing free agency to 28 or 8 years service, that would make Edler a RFA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Edler would not return the value of a top pair defenseman regardless. He just doesn't have the value you think he does.
What about RFA Edler?

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11-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #81
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Tavares is in the top 10 most untouchable players in the NHL.

As for value...you better be prepared to lose top prospects, promising young players, one of the best players on your team, and early round draft picks.


Rielly + Gardiner + Kadri + Colborne + Grabovski + 1st + 1st

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11-06-2012, 11:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What about RFA Edler?
It's certainly not a done deal, and I think that's something the NHL will give up to get a bigger share of the money. But I'll play along.

Edler signs a one year deal as an RFA and goes UFA the next year... NYI wants and needs players under 25.

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11-06-2012, 11:26 PM
  #83
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Pittsburgh

Kris Letang or James Neal + Isles choice of any 3 of (whatever D prospect they want)/(whatever D prospect they want)/(1st round pick)/(1st round pick)


Don't think Penguins fans will like this, but I also don't think a lot of people are going to be ready for the way Tavares will rocket out of the gate the second games start. Guy's ready to have his name start getting (commonly) mentioned in the same breath as Stamkos, at the bare minimum.

Hell, I'm in the minority, but I think he was the 2nd best player in hockey to play 71 games last season (which is to say I don't think he was better than Malkin, Crosby or Datsyuk, assuming Dats doesn't get old fast at least, but that's the end of my list of guys better than JT).

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:27 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
If they can negotiate with him prior the trade, and Edler is really willing to sign with them long term..... then why not just not trading for him and just wait until he become UFA then sign him?
Because Vancouver is his first choice? Or maybe after testing open market he might get offers from teams as well as the NYI, making him less likely to sign there after hearing other GMs pitches?

I don't see why everyone is determined to lower the value of other teams players.

I can do it too. Spezza has far too high a cap hit and is too old for the Islanders core.
Price...would never be offered by any Habs fan other than Palindrom for Tavares, let alone Price + Galchenyuk +Subban++.

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11-06-2012, 11:29 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
It's certainly not a done deal, and I think that's something the NHL will give up to get a bigger share of the money. But I'll play along.

Edler signs a one year deal as an RFA and goes UFA the next year... NYI wants and needs players under 25.
If Edler was a RFA and Islander property he would continue to be until he signed a contract. He couldn't sign a one year deal unless the Islanders offered it to him. Are you familiar with RFA's?

Passing on a 50 point defensemen because he's 26/27 instead of 25 or under... crazy.

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11-06-2012, 11:35 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Because Vancouver is his first choice? Or maybe after testing open market he might get offers from teams as well as the NYI, making him less likely to sign there after hearing other GMs pitches?

I don't see why everyone is determined to lower the value of other teams players.

I can do it too. Spezza has far too high a cap hit and is too old for the Islanders core.
Price...would never be offered by any Habs fan other than Palindrom for Tavares, let alone Price + Galchenyuk +Subban++.
if vancouver is his first choice, then he should ask a NTC and sign with Vancouver.

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11-06-2012, 11:39 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If Edler was a RFA and Islander property he would continue to be until he signed a contract. He couldn't sign a one year deal unless the Islanders offered it to him. Are you familiar with RFA's?

Passing on a 50 point defensemen because he's 26/27 instead of 25 or under... crazy.
What? Are you familiar with RFAs?

He would be RFA in the summer of 2013 in your situation... which means he would not sign long term, just a one year deal, then leave in 2014.

NYI wants players under 25 because they hold their rights longer, more chance to get attached to the team and re-sign, etc.

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11-06-2012, 11:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
if vancouver is his first choice, then he should ask a NTC and sign with Vancouver.
But if Vancouver says "Look, your a great player and we love having you, but if we have the opportunity to get Tavares, we have to do what's best for the team..." etc, then he knows he won't be with Vancouver if a trade goes through. But it's not like Snow will say "You're willing to sign with us, great, just do it in July."

Again, I don't see the need why people have to keep coming up with reasons why Edler has little value, when this entire thread is fantasy. Let's try to keep this on topic instead of blasting other team's players. Just state your offer and move on.

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11-06-2012, 11:52 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
But if Vancouver says "Look, your a great player and we love having you, but if we have the opportunity to get Tavares, we have to do what's best for the team..." etc, then he knows he won't be with Vancouver if a trade goes through. But it's not like Snow will say "You're willing to sign with us, great, just do it in July."

Again, I don't see the need why people have to keep coming up with reasons why Edler has little value, when this entire thread is fantasy. Let's try to keep this on topic instead of blasting other team's players. Just state your offer and move on.
Dude you still haven't responded to this:

''extended Edler'' means either

-Edler is signed by Vancouver and traded
-Edler negotiates with NYI and agrees to deal, then signs after trade

There is less than 0% chance of this happening during the season.


Edler has the value of a rental. NYI don't want rentals. Makes no sense.






You're completely disregarding his contract situation. Being a UFA means he has little value. Just like if he had a max contract for the next 10 years.


Like it's not Rocket Science dude. There is no way to agree to an extension before the trade. NYI won't pay highly for a maybe (and an unlikely one at that). They just won't. Not happening. A guy waiving his no trade is much more plausible.

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11-07-2012, 12:01 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post

He would be RFA in the summer of 2013 in your situation... which means he would not sign long term, just a one year deal, then leave in 2014.
He couldn't sign a one year deal unless the Islanders offered it to him. I give up, worst thread ever.

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11-07-2012, 12:01 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Pittsburgh

Kris Letang or James Neal + Isles choice of any 3 of (whatever D prospect they want)/(whatever D prospect they want)/(1st round pick)/(1st round pick)


Don't think Penguins fans will like this, but I also don't think a lot of people are going to be ready for the way Tavares will rocket out of the gate the second games start. Guy's ready to have his name start getting (commonly) mentioned in the same breath as Stamkos, at the bare minimum.

Hell, I'm in the minority, but I think he was the 2nd best player in hockey to play 71 games last season (which is to say I don't think he was better than Malkin, Crosby or Datsyuk, assuming Dats doesn't get old fast at least, but that's the end of my list of guys better than JT).
Letang+Morrow+Pouliot/Harrington/Maatta+1st? Steep price.

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Old
11-07-2012, 12:05 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
He couldn't sign a one year deal unless the Islanders offered it to him. I give up, worst thread ever.
lol wut

He would have to sign a multi-year deal? seriously?


lol at worst thread ever... reality check hurts I guess



Nucks fans are trying to make this into something it's not. UFAs to be don't have much value. Get over it. That's reality.

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11-07-2012, 12:09 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Dude you still haven't responded to this:

''extended Edler'' means either

-Edler is signed by Vancouver and traded
-Edler negotiates with NYI and agrees to deal, then signs after trade

There is less than 0% chance of this happening during the season.


Edler has the value of a rental. NYI don't want rentals. Makes no sense.






You're completely disregarding his contract situation. Being a UFA means he has little value. Just like if he had a max contract for the next 10 years.


Like it's not Rocket Science dude. There is no way to agree to an extension before the trade. NYI won't pay highly for a maybe (and an unlikely one at that). They just won't. Not happening. A guy waiving his no trade is much more plausible.
Again, why not? Plenty of UFAs have commanded high prices in the past, and it's just as likely Edler would re-sign once traded as it is Spezza would waive his NTC. If you want to call it less than 0%, then go ahead.

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11-07-2012, 12:15 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Again, why not? Plenty of UFAs have commanded high prices in the past, and it's just as likely Edler would re-sign once traded as it is Spezza would waive his NTC. If you want to call it less than 0%, then go ahead.
Why would they negotiate before the trade?


Mid-season, Canucks tell Edler they don't want him and will trade him. Then they ask him to do them a favor and sign with the other team so they can get extra value. This helps the Nucks get more value, hurts the Isles by giving up more, and hurts Edler because he is betrayed by his team and doesn't the chance to explore UFA.

And if Edler refuses to sign with NYI, Nucks are stuck with a disgruntled player that knows they wanted him gone.

Really you think that is plausible. It's NEVER happened.

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11-07-2012, 12:21 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Why would they negotiate before the trade?


Mid-season, Canucks tell Edler they don't want him and will trade him. Then they ask him to do them a favor and sign with the other team so they can get extra value. This helps the Nucks get more value, hurts the Isles by giving up more, and hurts Edler because he is betrayed by his team and doesn't the chance to explore UFA.

And if Edler refuses to sign with NYI, Nucks are stuck with a disgruntled player that knows they wanted him gone.

Really you think that is plausible. It's NEVER happened.
Why would Edler be disgruntled? As I said, we don't "want" to get rid of our players, we want Tavares. And when New Jersey traded for Kovalchuk, for example, you don't think they knew Kovalchuk would be willing to re-sign with them?

At the deadline, I'd be willing to throw a huge package at Corey Perry, as it's assumed we'll have some idea that he'd be willing to re-sign long-term with us.

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11-07-2012, 12:26 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He would have to sign a multi-year deal? seriously?
A player can't sign a deal that a team didn't offer. Seriously.

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11-07-2012, 12:27 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why would Edler be disgruntled? As I said, we don't "want" to get rid of our players, we want Tavares. And when New Jersey traded for Kovalchuk, for example, you don't think they knew Kovalchuk would be willing to re-sign with them?

At the deadline, I'd be willing to throw a huge package at Corey Perry, as it's assumed we'll have some idea that he'd be willing to re-sign long-term with us.
There's no way NJ knew that Kovy wanted to re-sign... didn't he re-sign in like August that summer... you're making stuff up.


Can you imagine calling up Edler and saying ''Yo dude, we want to trade you to NYI, but they'll only accept if you extend with them so... can you do that for us?''




Edler would cut all contact with Nucks management and and just wait it out til UFA

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11-07-2012, 12:29 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
A player can't sign a deal that a team didn't offer. Seriously.
Qualifying offer. To retain his rights. Pretty sure that's a ''deal that was offered''.



Also, NYI would rather sign him to a 1 year deal over him not playing and being RFA.

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11-07-2012, 12:34 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
There's no way NJ knew that Kovy wanted to re-sign...


Can you imagine calling up Edler and saying ''Yo dude, we want to trade you to NYI, but they'll only accept if you extend with them so... can you do that for us?''




Edler would cut all contact with Nucks management and and just wait it out til UFA
Look, I don't see what's so hard to understand. Teams in the past have payed a lot for pending UFAs, as they believe they can re-sign them. Correct?

If the NYI feel they can re-sign him, they will value him similarly. And it's about as likely that the NYI can re-sign him as it is that players will waive their NTC. As in both cases it simply means the player is willing to be with the team.

According to your logic, no team would ever give up top prospects/1sts/whatevers at the deadline, when obviously it does happen.

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11-07-2012, 12:40 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Look, I don't see what's so hard to understand. Teams in the past have payed a lot for pending UFAs, as they believe they can re-sign them. Correct?

If the NYI feel they can re-sign him, they will value him similarly. And it's about as likely that the NYI can re-sign him as it is that players will waive their NTC. As in both cases it simply means the player is willing to be with the team.

According to your logic, no team would ever give up top prospects/1sts/whatevers at the deadline, when obviously it does happen.
False. Kovy, Hossa, expensive rentals... they didn't get THAT much, and only did because their teams thought they could push them over the top... they didn't get that much because they thought they could re-sign them... it was for a chance at the cup.

Teams in the same position as NYI do NOT give up top prospects/1sts/whatevers at the deadline.

NYI has no chance at the cup. Which is why they don't value rentals. A chance to negotiate with a guy to potentially sign with your team is worth approximately a 3rd rounder if he's good.

My point is, there is no chance an extension happens before the trade. NONE. Which means he's worth as much as a rental, which means NYI won't pay much.

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