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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:07 PM
  #126
blues10
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
That's good to know. It's very different from up here. We have advanced polls but they count as a reporting precinct. We don't have mail-in or provisional voting.
Not to de-rail the thread but i have voted by mail in ballot in provincial elections when I was out of Province.

So are the Coyotes staying? does GJ and the JSG have the money? Has goldwater gone away? would anyone start a referendum if a lease is signed? will a lease be signed? will skeete get a full time gig as city manager? will joyce clark return to a career of clay molding. Where's Phil?

So many questions.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:07 PM
  #127
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Update!

GLENDALE COUNCILMEMBER - SAHUARO DISTRICT

100% (11 of 11) precincts reporting

- DOUGLAS, DIANE 3656 49.09%

- SHERWOOD, GARY* 3791 50.91%

Gary Sherwood has won Sahuaro.

And under "Why the hell is he posting something we already know?"

CITY OF GLENDALE PROPOSITION 457

93% (43 of 46) precincts reporting

- YES 12913 34.44%

- NO* 24577 65.56%

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11-06-2012, 11:08 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Skeete will do what city council directs him to do. The question is whether lame duck council members like Joyce Clark and Frate will vote to approve a deal that commits the COG to $320 million in payments over 20 years. If they do, I expect that we might well see another concerted effort to overturn the Jamison lease via referendum.

If by some chance this does end up in a referendum and the citizens of Glendale vote to support the Coyotes lease, I think it would be epic. It would be like the "Little Engine That Could".

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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
The Little engine that could? More like Blaine the crazy psycho train that survives against all odds in an hopeless, cruel world that fell into madness long ago.



Seriously now, I think after this election there is still hope for the Coyotes, but who knows what the future will bring? There are most likely many more trials ahead for the team, but we'll see.....
Haha. Awesome post. Well done. Literally LOL.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:13 PM
  #129
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So Clark loses (hoooray) but the tax (subsidy) stays....

Can someone summarize what this means for the Yotes?

(i'm getting flashbacks to when the Glendale council meeting webstream had some 20000 Winnipegers watching and like 3 PHX residents watching.....but this time its Quebec following closely)
It mean they got the money to waste on the Coyotes if they choose to and if Jamison actually has the money to buy them. And if GWI does not come knocking with a gift clause lawsuit. And they have to do all that soon because the new CoG is not all that thrilled by this stupid idea but they come into power only next January. Assuming the NHL does not promise the PA to move the Coyotes ASAP to boost HRR in the next few days.

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11-06-2012, 11:18 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Update!

GLENDALE COUNCILMEMBER - SAHUARO DISTRICT

100% (11 of 11) precincts reporting

- DOUGLAS, DIANE 3656 49.09%

- SHERWOOD, GARY* 3791 50.91%

Gary Sherwood has won Sahuaro.

And under "Why the hell is he posting something we already know?"

CITY OF GLENDALE PROPOSITION 457

93% (43 of 46) precincts reporting

- YES 12913 34.44%

- NO* 24577 65.56%
There will be 10 days to count mail in ballots and this will most certainly be a re-count. I could be wrong.

Alvarez won a seat in a re-count if my mind serves me correctly.

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:26 PM
  #131
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Clark has officially been defeated.





GLENDALE COUNCILMEMBER - YUCCA DISTRICT



100% (9 of 9) precincts reporting



Vote for 1

EV VOTES

TOTAL VOTES

% VOTES



- CHAVIRA, SAM*

1477

2632

57.73



- CLARK, JOYCE

1158

1927

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:27 PM
  #132
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There will be 10 days to count mail in ballots and this will most certainly be a re-count. I could be wrong.

Alvarez won a seat in a re-count if my mind serves me correctly.
All true, but for right now, with all precincts reporting, he's won. Though I think he has a large enough margin of victory that I doubt there will much chance of his losing.

Now I've forgotten, was Frate pro or anti AMF?

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11-06-2012, 11:28 PM
  #133
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All true, but for right now, with all precincts reporting, he's won. Though I think he has a large enough margin of victory that I doubt there will much chance of his losing.

Now I've forgotten, was Frate pro or anti AMF?

Frate loves the coyotes, the AMF and gramps GJ

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11-06-2012, 11:29 PM
  #134
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Apparently Joyce Clark deleted her Twitter account upon her defeat.

https://twitter.com/mariowroy/status...976706/photo/1

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11-06-2012, 11:32 PM
  #135
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Apparently Joyce Clark deleted her Twitter account upon her defeat.

https://twitter.com/mariowroy/status...976706/photo/1
I am sure GJ will still ask her to the prom.

Edit: things should be up to normal soon.

https://twitter.com/clarkjv

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11-06-2012, 11:35 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Clark has officially been defeated.
Allow me a moment to feel smug in predicting her demise...

Chavira's margin of victory was pretty close to what it was in the primary. I tend to think the incumbent factor tends to be too overblown. Voters everywhere have no problem tossing idiots from office...

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11-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #137
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lol thats so funny. anywho, on the make whole convo, I think it's good they talked about the other issues today, if they can just hammer out the 50/50, we should be dropping pucks soon!


btw the other day i tweeted dustin penner in my fit of rage, and alot of my friends thought it was completely hilarious, now i barely tweet at all, but i do think i chirped penner pretty good.


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11-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Allow me a moment to feel smug in predicting her demise...

Chavira's margin of victory was pretty close to what it was in the primary. I tend to think the incumbent factor tends to be too overblown. Voters everywhere have no problem tossing idiots from office...
Clarkonomics will appear in college textbooks nationwide in the near future. A woman truly ahead of her time, with a pulse on the economics of a nation.

This is a real surprise to see her defeated. Pro-coyote to the end. I predict that she goes full steam ahead to sign a lease with GJ and the JSG to create a lasting legacy for the COG and NHL hockey in Arizona.

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11-06-2012, 11:42 PM
  #139
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Frate loves the coyotes, the AMF and gramps GJ
Then I guess the council has now swung to the anti-AMF side of the ledger.

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11-06-2012, 11:45 PM
  #140
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Then I guess the council has now swung to the anti-AMF side of the ledger.
It is my understanding that Sherwood dressed as Howler for Halloween so the seat remains staus quo.

the Clark seat changed

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11-06-2012, 11:50 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Allow me a moment to feel smug in predicting her demise...

Chavira's margin of victory was pretty close to what it was in the primary. I tend to think the incumbent factor tends to be too overblown. Voters everywhere have no problem tossing idiots from office...
we should hang out and toast this one.

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11-06-2012, 11:53 PM
  #142
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Then I guess the council has now swung to the anti-AMF side of the ledger.
They have to be sworn in first..... but it appears to be headed that way. However, until the new members are sworn in... the current council makes the decisions.

A lot is going to depend on when the revised AMF gets published to the public (if it does at all) to know which council will get to decide on it. It has to be up a week before it can be voted on.

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11-06-2012, 11:53 PM
  #143
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The tax vote isn't a surprise. The council didnt sell it as if its overturned the coyotes leave. They sold it as of its overturned libraries close and there are cuts to police and fire protection (which I guess isn't untrue?)

If Clark in fact loses what make up does the new council have in relation to support of coyotes subsidies?
New Mayor - (Weiers) No outrageous AMF
New Vice Mayor (Sherwood - recount may be forthcoming) - Favors AMF
Chavira (Clark out) - Current AMF proposed is too much
Alvarez - No AMF
Martinez - Yes to AMF
Knaack - Yes to AMF (Recall threat)
Hugh/Hirsch - No AMF

So you have 2 firm No's, 3 firm yes', and 2 "Could be" votes. That's how I see it.

The reasoning behind this is, even though the new Mayor Weiers and Chavira, although are against the current proposed AMF amount, they could realisitically be in favor of a more in-line AMF of $6M as bantered about 2 workshops ago. That $6M has already been stated as allocated and within the "0 cuts" realm.

Or they can go the RFP route.

So for all this to come into favor, the JIG must be willing to drop (safely) $10M annually off of their subsidy request.

So if the lame ducks try to cram it through as is, as Whilee stated, it would go to referendum.

I've been talking with a colleague of mine with the ASP (Az State Police). They seem to think that the rally was around the No vote to keep the current tax but if the AMF was to go to referendum, it'll get crushed. The consensus from law enforcement and firefighters was that Clark, of all the seats up for grabs, represented the biggest threat to favorably try to cram something thru. A residual benefit if Douglas were to win too.

It's way too early to speculate still but, between 2 firm no's and 2 we want to keep the Coyotes, just not with subsidies, we could see this

#1 -
Current Council proceeds with proposed AMF
JIG does not yield ~$10M annually in it's requested AMF fees
Knaack recall excelerated
Goes to referendum and is defeated
New Council executes new alternative(s) - i.e RFP @$6M or less per year
Future of Coyotes sealed

#2 -
Current Council proceeds with newly proposed AMF
JIG does yield ~$10M annually in it's requested AMF fees
Knaack recall to be determined
Goes to referendum? and could still be defeated. If not...
New Council executes new AMF at $6M -$9M and maintain 0-2% cuts
Future of Coyotes bright

I'm open to correction and suggestion, as it's late and been a rough day

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11-06-2012, 11:56 PM
  #144
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They have to be sworn in first..... but it appears to be headed that way. However, until the new members are sworn in... the current council makes the decisions.

A lot is going to depend on when the revised AMF gets published to the public (if it does at all) to know which council will get to decide on it. It has to be up a week before it can be voted on.
Then another signature campaign!

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:59 PM
  #145
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This is a real surprise to see her defeated. Pro-coyote to the end. I predict that she goes full steam ahead to sign a lease with GJ and the JSG to create a lasting legacy for the COG and NHL hockey in Arizona.
Honestly I wasn't the least bit surprised. I looked at the numbers from the primary, and I had trouble seeing how she could possibly win. She had to have run a flawless campaign to win, and she did anything but...

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11-07-2012, 12:02 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post

The reasoning behind this is, even though the new Mayor Weiers and Chavira, although are against the current proposed AMF amount, they could realisitically be in favor of a more in-line AMF of $6M as bantered about 2 workshops ago. That $6M has already been stated as allocated and within the "0 cuts" realm.

Both candidates would prefer an open bidding on an AMF.... but Chavira would prefer PMG as the arena operator. As does Alvarez. They both have friendship ties with that group.

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11-07-2012, 12:12 AM
  #147
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No I believe that they now realize that PMG (regardless of "ties") is not even remotely realistic and a true RFP, with incentive clauses will be wired out

*Cough! Global Spectrum, errrm cough!*

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11-07-2012, 12:16 AM
  #148
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No I believe that they now realize that PMG (regardless of "ties") is not even remotely realistic and a true RFP, with incentive clauses will be wired out

*Cough! Global Spectrum, errrm cough!*
I won't disagree with that. But that would make sense and when has anything around here been sensible?

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11-07-2012, 12:18 AM
  #149
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Who is up for reelection this year? Next year?

If I'm JIG I'm still worried about strategic default. (although perhaps Tohono O'odham don't care)

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11-07-2012, 12:18 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
The reasoning behind this is, even though the new Mayor Weiers and Chavira, although are against the current proposed AMF amount, they could realisitically be in favor of a more in-line AMF of $6M as bantered about 2 workshops ago. That $6M has already been stated as allocated and within the "0 cuts" realm.

Or they can go the RFP route.

So for all this to come into favor, the JIG must be willing to drop (safely) $10M annually off of their subsidy request.

#2 -
Current Council proceeds with newly proposed AMF
JIG does yield ~$10M annually in it's requested AMF fees
Knaack recall to be determined
Goes to referendum? and could still be defeated. If not...
New Council executes new AMF at $6M -$9M and maintain 0-2% cuts
Future of Coyotes bright
I think you pretty much nailed it. If JIG actually agrees to such a drastic cut then Glendale should jump on it. By rights the AMF should be capital costs (which increases with more events) + small management fee ($250k to $1m is the standard) + percentage of profits. With most arenas this works out to the $6m to $11m range. Would also avoid any gift clause challenge.

But to be honest, Gramps doesn't seem too interested in any cuts to the current deal. Clearly he wants Glendale to subsidize team losses and help his investors make money. After tonight, without a game changer showing up, I don't see any path that realistically keeps the Coyotes in Arizona.

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