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Edmonton Eskimos (IV): playoffs @ Toronto next week; Tillman fired

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:00 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Start the young kid if he fails how do you convince Joesph that you have faith in him?
Isn't Joseph supposed to be this great vet team player? He can't handle being thrown in as plan B even though that was his status most of the season?

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11-06-2012, 01:01 PM
  #977
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I have to ask, are all the coaching errors made this year are being swept away because Reed had too much on his plate?
No but how would you think most coaches would perform given the same circumstances of having to take over GM duties "unofficially" working with a dysfunctional management operations.

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11-06-2012, 01:04 PM
  #978
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Can you explain why you think Joseph starting isn't a bad thing?
It takes the pressure off the kid. He seems to perform better as the reliever. Starting and relieving are different and some guys are better coming off the bench. If I was the coach, I might announce Friday that Joseph is starting and tell the team that the plan is to let Joseph run through Q1, then Nichols goes in. The offense plays differently under Nichols than Joseph. You can read it in their body language and their enthusiasm when Matt is at the helm. Notice I never said I would do the above. I'd start Nichols and tell him it's his job to lose. However, I think Joseph gets the start but both will play.

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11-06-2012, 01:09 PM
  #979
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Holy cow, did Tencer ever go off on Tillman. I CANT STAND Tencer, but that was awesome (& accurate). Go to hour 1 of yesterdays show of his. Its really great radio.

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11-06-2012, 01:11 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
No but how would you think most coaches would perform given the same circumstances of having to take over GM duties "unofficially" working with a dysfunctional management operations.
I'd still expect them to be able to make the proper calls during a game though.

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11-06-2012, 01:16 PM
  #981
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It takes the pressure off the kid. He seems to perform better as the reliever. Starting and relieving are different and some guys are better coming off the bench. If I was the coach, I might announce Friday that Joseph is starting and tell the team that the plan is to let Joseph run through Q1, then Nichols goes in. The offense plays differently under Nichols than Joseph. You can read it in their body language and their enthusiasm when Matt is at the helm. Notice I never said I would do the above. I'd start Nichols and tell him it's his job to lose. However, I think Joseph gets the start but both will play.
I just don't really see the point in tossing even away a quarter of the game. We know Joseph will do nothing, so why even try starting him? I would do what you would do. Nichols to start and Joseph if Matt is getting nowhere. My big issue with Joseph starting is that I don't see any way Reed pulls him before the half and by then it could be far too late.

As for the topic of if Reed is forgiven? Not by me. I get that he had extra responsibilities, but in game decisions were still horrible. I hope our next GM replaces him with his own guy.

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11-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I just don't really see the point in tossing even away a quarter of the game. We know Joseph will do nothing, so why even try starting him? I would do what you would do. Nichols to start and Joseph if Matt is getting nowhere. My big issue with Joseph starting is that I don't see any way Reed pulls him before the half and by then it could be far too late.

As for the topic of if Reed is forgiven? Not by me. I get that he had extra responsibilities, but in game decisions were still horrible. I hope our next GM replaces him with his own guy.
I agree with all of this except the last sentence. I like Kavis and think he's going to develop into a really good coach who knows what it should mean to be an Eskimo. I don't want to give up on him just yet.

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11-06-2012, 01:58 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I just don't really see the point in tossing even away a quarter of the game. We know Joseph will do nothing, so why even try starting him? I would do what you would do. Nichols to start and Joseph if Matt is getting nowhere. My big issue with Joseph starting is that I don't see any way Reed pulls him before the half and by then it could be far too late.

As for the topic of if Reed is forgiven? Not by me. I get that he had extra responsibilities, but in game decisions were still horrible. I hope our next GM replaces him with his own guy.
No kidding. Put Joseph in and pull him at the half when the score is 21-1. Good plan.

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11-06-2012, 02:51 PM
  #984
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I agree with all of this except the last sentence. I like Kavis and think he's going to develop into a really good coach who knows what it should mean to be an Eskimo. I don't want to give up on him just yet.
Nothing short of near perfect decisions in the playoffs will convince me Reed is secretly a good coach. I guess we'll see what he does. Beginning with his decision about who to start.

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11-06-2012, 05:36 PM
  #985
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Charles has been cleared to play this sunday. That is an interesting problem to have and something I wasn't anticipating. Will they keep the three headed monster in tact? Charles has been one of our best recieving players all year as well. And we had McCarty in the line up last week also.

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11-06-2012, 06:22 PM
  #986
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Holy cow, did Tencer ever go off on Tillman. I CANT STAND Tencer, but that was awesome (& accurate). Go to hour 1 of yesterdays show of his. Its really great radio.
Thats awesome, such a good rant

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11-06-2012, 06:48 PM
  #987
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There's little reason to keep Reed after the season. Total lack of control on the sidelines, stuff that should be dealt with during the monday to friday preperations, not on gamedays. Too many time count violations to count. The Eskies sideline is anything but in control when it matters most.

If there was a "minor league" to help bring coaches along/develope, Kavis Reed should be in it. He needs to be gone as well.

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11-06-2012, 07:13 PM
  #988
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There's little reason to keep Reed after the season. Total lack of control on the sidelines, stuff that should be dealt with during the monday to friday preperations, not on gamedays. Too many time count violations to count. The Eskies sideline is anything but in control when it matters most.

If there was a "minor league" to help bring coaches along/develope, Kavis Reed should be in it. He needs to be gone as well.
Again... I think a lot of this has to go with the ****show that was going on behind the scenes.

I'd recommend everyone here read the "Spin Cycle" post on EsksFans.... it sums it up pretty nicely and will illustrate some of the problems Kavis has faced.

There were never any threats against Tillman or his family; I think he's just using people "saying bad things about him" as an excuse to not move his family here.

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11-06-2012, 07:19 PM
  #989
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It takes the pressure off the kid. He seems to perform better as the reliever. Starting and relieving are different and some guys are better coming off the bench. If I was the coach, I might announce Friday that Joseph is starting and tell the team that the plan is to let Joseph run through Q1, then Nichols goes in. The offense plays differently under Nichols than Joseph. You can read it in their body language and their enthusiasm when Matt is at the helm. Notice I never said I would do the above. I'd start Nichols and tell him it's his job to lose. However, I think Joseph gets the start but both will play.
Nichols is obviously more comfortable coming in as a reliever at this point and does not look as comfortable starting games. As much as people state theres no point putting Joseph in in the first quarter theres no point doing that with Nichols and having him have the pressure of a full 60mins playoff contest which frankly he doesn't look quite ready for. Let him look at some of the game from the sidelines, calm down a bit, breathe, and get in the game when he's comfortable. I guarantee you Nichols is REALLY getting excited right now but huge potential for him to be overexcited. We know with QB's when a guy is too jacked and things start going south its all over. Young QB's being especially vulnerable to this.

Better to let Nichols feel his way into the game. If Nichols goes cold, or loses his confidence out there what else do we got?

I suspect the Eskimos will manage it right with Nichols. Unless the offense is running well with Joseph and we establish the run/short game early I expect to see Nichols by the second quarter.

Finally, theres absolutely no value telling the world, and the Argos that Nichols is starting and it would be frankly stupid to do that. Keep the opponent in doubt, don't tip your hand in anyway.

This is what is supposed to occur.

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11-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #990
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Charles has been cleared to play this sunday. That is an interesting problem to have and something I wasn't anticipating. Will they keep the three headed monster in tact? Charles has been one of our best recieving players all year as well. And we had McCarty in the line up last week also.
I'd like to see Charles more as a quick option for passes out of the backfield giving us a play when theres heat and we've had little of that without him. I'd rather see Boyd or Messam pounding the ball. I'd be furious if we refuse to dress Boyd in this game. If anybody has to sit on basis of play it should be Messam.

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11-06-2012, 07:27 PM
  #991
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I'd like to see Charles more as a quick option for passes out of the backfield giving us a play when theres heat and we've had little of that without him. I'd rather see Boyd or Messam pounding the ball. I'd be furious if we refuse to dress Boyd in this game. If anybody has to sit on basis of play it should be Messam.
In a way I'm somewhat unhappy with the fact that Charles is good to go. There has been some sort of compulsion from the coaching staff to use him way more than his skill set deserves, as well as in situations that are poorly designed for the style of runner he is.

I'd rather the decision be made easy for them to just start Boyd. I have almost zero faith in this coaching staff's ability to make the correct personnel decisions (especially on offense).

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11-06-2012, 07:34 PM
  #992
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I'd like to see Charles more as a quick option for passes out of the backfield giving us a play when theres heat and we've had little of that without him. I'd rather see Boyd or Messam pounding the ball. I'd be furious if we refuse to dress Boyd in this game. If anybody has to sit on basis of play it should be Messam.
I don't think Charles should play to be honest... his game is all about quickness, what's the point of having Messam and Boyd on the roster if you're rushing Charles back anyway?

Keys to the game for the Esks offensively are to stay balanced and make sure Fred Stamps is involved.

The fact Stamps finished 2nd in receiving with these QB's is stunning, and if he can stay hot I don't think Toronto can cover him; it's just a matter of having a starting QB who can get him the ball.

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11-06-2012, 07:43 PM
  #993
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I don't think Charles should play to be honest... his game is all about quickness, what's the point of having Messam and Boyd on the roster if you're rushing Charles back anyway?

Keys to the game for the Esks offensively are to stay balanced and make sure Fred Stamps is involved.

The fact Stamps finished 2nd in receiving with these QB's is stunning, and if he can stay hot I don't think Toronto can cover him; it's just a matter of having a starting QB who can get him the ball.
If Charles isn't 100%, and I doubt he is, he shouldn't be used to run the ball, and maybe not at all. Where I do see a role for him or somebody with hands is as mentioned on the quickstrike and which has been sorely missing in our game this year without him. A lot of our receivers just don't run quick patterns and don't often come back to the ball or break pattern to help the QB who's being rushed. We're sorely missing quick hit plays when we're experiencing pressure. Often case the QB has two options. run for life, or eat ball, get pounded in turf.

It is interesting that with Joseph and Nichols Stamps is having one of his best years ever. It makes one wonder though how much of the limitation this year is at quarterback vs Reciever. As I watch our receivers flat out drop several passes a game and look at the stats I realize only Stamps and Koch are even legitimate targets most of the time. Henry has had just an awful year, Coohoern looking green. Carter not worth a plugged nickle, and Chambers still too young. These guys need to be more reliably running patterns, much sharper than they have been, and get involved in the game early. We have 4 recievers on this club that don't do **** all to get in the game in first halves. Noticed this fairly consistently.

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11-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #994
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what was boyd averaging 8 yards a carry last game?

if they don't start him, im going to lose it.

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11-06-2012, 09:43 PM
  #995
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I would also start Kj but have him on a very short chock chain hooked up to a motorized come-along.

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11-06-2012, 09:48 PM
  #996
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what was boyd averaging 8 yards a carry last game?

if they don't start him, im going to lose it.
What got me is Calgary had no answer for Boyd. He was ripping a first down nearly everytime, and we stopped going to him and went back with Messam.

I like to think we're saving this stuff for the big game. If not then I'll join in asking big questions about this club again.

I'm happy Boyd is back. Lets let him have 15 carries. Guy would get 100yds on his own.

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11-07-2012, 12:12 AM
  #997
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I think the Esks will win... and I'm a noted RR Fan.

That said, I don't think there's team in the league the EE wouldn't whoop this week.

I think there's a big time rallying point for G&G, and it's that the black cloud that's been hovering over the team all season is gone.

I suspect a VERY spirited effort.

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11-07-2012, 02:54 AM
  #998
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What got me is Calgary had no answer for Boyd. He was ripping a first down nearly everytime, and we stopped going to him and went back with Messam.

I like to think we're saving this stuff for the big game. If not then I'll join in asking big questions about this club again.

I'm happy Boyd is back. Lets let him have 15 carries. Guy would get 100yds on his own.
Completely agree with this. Boyd was basically the best back in the league the two previous seasons and had it not been for injuries would have been the leader in rushing yards. Despite the fact he was the Argos only real weapon and everybody knew it, they still couldn't stop him.

I've been saying it since last year, Messam is overrated, he was a product of our hugely underrated run blocking last year. I recall him galloping through gaping holes untouched for 20+ yard gains that a faster back would probably have doubled. Unfortunately because of his passport he will likely play and the far superior RB will be in sweatpants.

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11-07-2012, 03:06 AM
  #999
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Holy cow, did Tencer ever go off on Tillman. I CANT STAND Tencer, but that was awesome (& accurate). Go to hour 1 of yesterdays show of his. Its really great radio.
You're right I can't stand Tencer either.

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11-07-2012, 05:34 AM
  #1000
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I have no problem starting Joseph but it better not last until we have virtually no time to make a come back. That's what's been so frustrating. Reed leaves the QB in there way too long when he's struggling.

I'm worried about Nichols only because I think he might be a little nervous and it's better to come in with a, "What the hell, I can't do any worse......." attitude.

As for the running backs, Messam has done absolutely nothing to warrant a start. Boyd and Charles should go, they both have shown they can be productive and Messam seems to lose yardage on every single carry. The guy just doesn't seem to be mentally prepared since his return. Maybe he's injured and him even a little injured spells trouble.

This game is going to be won on the clipboard. We've had some horrendous decision making all year long, it's about time these coaches showed why they should have jobs next season.

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