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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-07-2012, 12:22 AM
  #151
aqib
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So now it comes down to $6 million of budget cuts of other services to keep the Coyotes. I am going to assume Chavira will be an anti-AMF vote because he will go with Alvarez. Bottom line is the Coyotes need this done by the end of the year. So folks I think we have a real deadline.

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11-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #152
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Agreed. This all really hinges on how much Jamison and pals are willing to decrease.

If not south of say, $9M annually, then everything and everyone becomes moot because it'll get sniped in referendum. Even between $5M-$7M AMF annually will be met with some moderate difficulty if it goes to referendum. It would have to be clearly, concisely, and accurately hammered home that at least $6M is "safe" and with subsequent debt restructuring, it's doable.

As you said ED, any AMF above $1M is encroaching above and beyond standard AMF fees anyway

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11-07-2012, 12:38 AM
  #153
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anything above $9 million and Goldwater has a case.

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11-07-2012, 01:23 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
I think you pretty much nailed it. If JIG actually agrees to such a drastic cut then Glendale should jump on it. By rights the AMF should be capital costs (which increases with more events) + small management fee ($250k to $1m is the standard) + percentage of profits. With most arenas this works out to the $6m to $11m range. Would also avoid any gift clause challenge.

But to be honest, Gramps doesn't seem too interested in any cuts to the current deal. Clearly he wants Glendale to subsidize team losses and help his investors make money. After tonight, without a game changer showing up, I don't see any path that realistically keeps the Coyotes in Arizona.
Jamison is not the big investor here, and all signs indicate that any potential owner needs a sizable subsidy to be enticed to purchase the Coyotes and sign a long-term lease in Glendale. Unless the NHL makes a major move to lower the purchase price, I can't see how Jamison or any owner will agree to much less of a subsidy than is in the current lease.

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11-07-2012, 04:35 AM
  #155
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It's very strange, I'm so glad Clarke lost, I really don't care if the Yotes move or not.

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11-07-2012, 06:32 AM
  #156
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I admit I didn't think they'd vote for a tax increase. As others have said, this seems to be a situation where we watch what happens between now and swearing in period of new council (and of course GWI possibly waiting in the wings).

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11-07-2012, 07:31 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Honestly I wasn't the least bit surprised. I looked at the numbers from the primary, and I had trouble seeing how she could possibly win. She had to have run a flawless campaign to win, and she did anything but...
I wonder how much of a difference that last minute revelation about the CoG misappropriating the $6M had an affect on this vote.

Oh well... now Joyce can concentrate on stalking Shane Doan full time now.

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Old
11-07-2012, 07:34 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I admit I didn't think they'd vote for a tax increase. As others have said, this seems to be a situation where we watch what happens between now and swearing in period of new council (and of course GWI possibly waiting in the wings).
Haven't checked all the results but there were several school district override elections (which usually means an increase in property taxes) that passed.

There was a state wide sales tax initiative that would have made a 2010 temporary increase permanent and it was voted down. That initiative was promoted as an education fund initiative but had several add-ons which turned voters off.

The Glendale sales tax rollback initiative was voted down because both the police and fire unions went on a massive info campaign against it and Glendale residents fully understood what rolling back the sales tax increase would have meant.


Last edited by TheLegend: 11-07-2012 at 07:54 AM.
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11-07-2012, 07:40 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
...

The reasoning behind this is, even though the new Mayor Weiers and Chavira, although are against the current proposed AMF amount, they could realisitically be in favor of a more in-line AMF of $6M as bantered about 2 workshops ago. That $6M has already been stated as allocated and within the "0 cuts" realm.

Or they can go the RFP route.

So for all this to come into favor, the JIG must be willing to drop (safely) $10M annually off of their subsidy request.

...
Can we really see Jamison and NHL for that matter drop from an average of $15M a year to $6M a year ?

I would think the NHL wants to make sure the new owner (Jamison or someone else) will keep the team for a few years at least and not BK it again in 6 months, and seeing how any owner in AZ wants to get as much cash as they can from CoG I don't see the NHL giving an OK for $6M per year while they cashed in $50M in two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
It's very strange, I'm so glad Clarke lost, I really don't care if the Yotes move or not.
I'm glad yet sad that she lost. Glad because well it's a positive thing for us who wants to see Coyotes move here in Quebec, but sad at the same time because now we won't have anymore Clack jewels popping up on Twitter or elsewhere.


Last edited by powerstuck: 11-07-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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11-07-2012, 07:41 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
It's very strange, I'm so glad Clarke lost, I really don't care if the Yotes move or not.
I have a very hard time believing that, but will accept your word.

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11-07-2012, 07:45 AM
  #161
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Comments from the new Mayor

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...line-prog.html

Outgoing Mayor Elaine Scruggs had endorsed Weiers, who has called for a tighter rein on the budget and criticized a proposed Phoenix Coyotes deal that has the city paying millions to the potential buyer of the hockey team.

His message on Tuesday night to the Coyotes and the baseball teams at the city’s spring-training ballpark: “Glendale is not your cash register.”

“We all love the Coyotes and Cactus League but we cannot sacrifice our way of life so they can maintain theirs,” Weiers said.

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11-07-2012, 07:46 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Can we really see Jamison and NHL for that matter drop from an average of $15M a year to $6M a year ?

I would think the NHL wants to make sure the new owner (Jamison or someone else) will keep the team for a few years at least and not BK it again in 6 months, and seeing how any owner in AZ wants to get as much cash as they can from CoG I don't see the NHL giving an OK for $6M per year while they cashed in $50M in two.
Oy..... how many times am I going to have to post this....

There have been no indications the NHL has collected the $25 million pledged for this past season. Nor have they touched any of the $20M that was placed in escrow.

However.... I'm going to see if I can get the current AZRep reporter to ask about it. Since I'm a bit puzzled about it myself.

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11-07-2012, 07:53 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Oy..... how many times am I going to have to post this....

There have been no indications the NHL has collected the $25 million pledged for this past season. Nor have they touched any of the $20M that was placed in escrow.

However.... I'm going to see if I can get the current AZRep reporter to ask about it. Since I'm a bit puzzled about it myself.
Might be worth asking someone, as no one is clear on this.

If you read this article:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ers-audit.html

The mayor questioned how the city can rebuild the risk management fund.
Skeete had no good answer.
He said the general fund’s balance is in the negative when considering other obligations that must be repaid.
These obligations include borrowing from utility funds to pay the National Hockey League $50million to manage the city’s arena.


Not 100% clear, but the writer of this article makes it appear that the $50M has been spent, as they are worrying as to how they are going to repay it . But maybe they are just saying what everyone else is thinking, and isn't really sure either.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-07-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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Old
11-07-2012, 08:01 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Might be worth asking someone, as no one is clear on this.

If you read this article:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ers-audit.html

The mayor questioned how the city can rebuild the risk management fund.
Skeete had no good answer.
He said the general fund’s balance is in the negative when considering other obligations that must be repaid.
These obligations include borrowing from utility funds to pay the National Hockey League $50million to manage the city’s arena.


Not 100% clear, but the writer of this article makes it appear that the $50M has been spent. But maybe they are just saying what everyone else is thinking, and isn't really sure either.
I agree it isn't clear.... but just sent the question to the reporter via her twitter account. Hopefully she'll find out.

I recall last year the reports on the first $25 million came out right after NHL submitted their "bill" for the entire amount. Only thing we've seen so far this year is when Scruggs had her meltdown over not being able to withdraw the $20Mil they had placed in escrow.

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11-07-2012, 08:09 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
#2 -
Current Council proceeds with newly proposed AMF
JIG does yield ~$10M annually in it's requested AMF fees
Knaack recall to be determined
Goes to referendum? and could still be defeated. If not...
New Council executes new AMF at $6M -$9M and maintain 0-2% cuts
Future of Coyotes bright

I'm open to correction and suggestion, as it's late and been a rough day
Your # 2 scenario is somewhat pointless. If JIG cuts his AMF fees from $15 million a year down to $5 million a year, the Coyotes are done. They'll just die a slower, more painful death. There is no indication that they can survive with the $15 million that JIG had negotiated. They really won't be able to live on $5 million a year. Bankruptcy would be pretty much inevitable for JIG and Friends.

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:27 AM
  #166
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I agree it isn't clear.... but just sent the question to the reporter via her twitter account. Hopefully she'll find out.

I recall last year the reports on the first $25 million came out right after NHL submitted their "bill" for the entire amount. Only thing we've seen so far this year is when Scruggs had her meltdown over not being able to withdraw the $20Mil they had placed in escrow.
The inability to withdraw the funds that had been placed in escrow could also have been one of the reasons that the COG started transferring funds illegally, as pointed out in the audit report. Even if the NHL has not taken those funds, they are committed and tied up, so not available to Glendale for other expenses.

My expectation is that if a local sale is completed, the NHL's claim on the $25 million will proceed, if it hasn't been claimed out of escrow already.

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:29 AM
  #167
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Sorry for the OT, but that is a fantastic thread title.

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:31 AM
  #168
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Great quote. Sounds like the Yotes are on the clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Comments from the new Mayor

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...line-prog.html

Outgoing Mayor Elaine Scruggs had endorsed Weiers, who has called for a tighter rein on the budget and criticized a proposed Phoenix Coyotes deal that has the city paying millions to the potential buyer of the hockey team.

His message on Tuesday night to the Coyotes and the baseball teams at the city’s spring-training ballpark: “Glendale is not your cash register.”

We all love the Coyotes and Cactus League but we cannot sacrifice our way of life so they can maintain theirs,” Weiers said.

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:45 AM
  #169
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Oy..... how many times am I going to have to post this....

There have been no indications the NHL has collected the $25 million pledged for this past season. Nor have they touched any of the $20M that was placed in escrow.

However.... I'm going to see if I can get the current AZRep reporter to ask about it. Since I'm a bit puzzled about it myself.
Those are one in the same. The $25 million pledged for this past season was put in escrow (well $20 million of it was, the remaining 5 was to be put following the Coyotes season but there is no indication that it ever was)

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:51 AM
  #170
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Can someone summarize what this means for the Yotes?

Lets Move them to Cleveland?

Frank Zappa

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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
No I believe that they now realize that PMG (regardless of "ties") is not even remotely realistic and a true RFP, with incentive clauses will be wired out.
... agree'd, incoming Mayor;

“Glendale is not your cash register.... We all love the Coyotes and Cactus
League but we cannot sacrifice our way of life so they can maintain theirs".

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11-07-2012, 08:57 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Oy..... how many times am I going to have to post this....

There have been no indications the NHL has collected the $25 million pledged for this past season. Nor have they touched any of the $20M that was placed in escrow.

However.... I'm going to see if I can get the current AZRep reporter to ask about it. Since I'm a bit puzzled about it myself.
and you know this how?

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Old
11-07-2012, 08:59 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
I agree it isn't clear.... but just sent the question to the reporter via her twitter account. Hopefully she'll find out.

I recall last year the reports on the first $25 million came out right after NHL submitted their "bill" for the entire amount. Only thing we've seen so far this year is when Scruggs had her meltdown over not being able to withdraw the $20Mil they had placed in escrow.
You just know that if the NHL actually gets around to accessing the escrow account you're going to get people saying "What? I thought they already took that money. Is this another $20m?" Then everyone is going to be saying the NHL took $70m from Glendale.

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11-07-2012, 09:03 AM
  #173
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and you know this how?
The last time it was reported on a couple of months ago, it was stated that the NHL hasn't touched it yet. My feeling is that the NHL didn't want it to count against it's HRR and look richer than they want to appear in negotiations with the NHLPA. I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL is waiting for the lockout to end before accessing it.

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11-07-2012, 09:07 AM
  #174
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Just wondering if incoming mayor Jerry Weiers ever got a response back from Gramps Jamison to the open letter (see linkbelow) he posted at the start of the campaign?

http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/mor...age=all&r=full

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11-07-2012, 09:13 AM
  #175
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Killion just won the internet today. well done

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Lets Move them to Cleveland?

Frank Zappa

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