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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
11-07-2012, 11:01 AM
  #26
TieClark
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Brampton is in the GTA. (Greater Toronto Area)

St. Mike's had to move from Toronto to Mississauga (Which is also in the GTA) and they're still second last in attendance, only ahead of Brampton.

Don Cherry's Mississauga Ice Dogs had to leave.

The Roadrunners lasted 1 season in Toronto.

The Marlies attendance has been lousy since returning to Toronto a few years ago.
Mississauga does fine in attendance... I'm not sure where you got that from. You also can't on one hand say the Toronto st mike lefts Toronto to come to Mississauga and then say Cherry's ice dogs left Mississauga.... That's the same move so essentially Toronto to niagara.

Marlies attendance has been great in the lockout but really this comes down to a city full of activities. Blue jays, maple leafs, raptors, Toronto FC, Argos... The list goes on. Another NHL team would thrive here.... A junior team doesn't fit in Toronto. Mississauga however is fine... The stadium is nice and they do well. Not as well as say London but why would anyone expect that? The knights are the only team in London... The GTA is still within range to go see all of those professional sport teams

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Old
11-07-2012, 11:07 AM
  #27
Neely2005
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
The Marlies are averaging 6,084 per game which puts them 9th in the AHL in attendance this season, and last season they averaged 5,480 per game which put them 14th. No team in the AHL averages 10,000 per game.

As for Brampton moving proves Toronto isn't a hockey town? The driving distance between the Hershey Center (Steelheads Arena) and Powerade Center (Battalion Arena) is 6.4km!!!! Too much hockey in too small an area.
I'll ignore this years attendance as it's probably a little inflated due to the NHL Lockout.

So last year they were 14th and you think that's good? The GTA probably has the biggest base of hockey fans in the world to draw from and the best they can do is 14th?

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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Mississauga does fine in attendance... I'm not sure where you got that from. You also can't on one hand say the Toronto st mike lefts Toronto to come to Mississauga and then say Cherry's ice dogs left Mississauga.... That's the same move so essentially Toronto to niagara.

Marlies attendance has been great in the lockout but really this comes down to a city full of activities. Blue jays, maple leafs, raptors, Toronto FC, Argos... The list goes on. Another NHL team would thrive here.... A junior team doesn't fit in Toronto. Mississauga however is fine... The stadium is nice and they do well. Not as well as say London but why would anyone expect that? The knights are the only team in London... The GTA is still within range to go see all of those professional sport teams


And from the article in the OP:

Quote:
The Majors were launched as an OHL franchise in 1996, with Brampton and Don Cherry’s Mississauga IceDogs following two years later. It was a quick and calculated expansion into the long incandescent arms of the GTA. For a small-market league, this kind of big-market reach should have been a shoo-in for success. Yet only 16 years after the arrival of St. Mike’s, all three have moved and only Mississauga (having relocated from St. Mike’s) remains – and on unsure footing.

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11-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #28
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This article is a joke, compares apples to oranges.

A prime example is Edmonton. With a lockout on Edmonton Oil Kings are averaging around 4000-6000. Are you going to tell me Edmonton is not a hockey city now? An NHL team who has finished last 3 years in a row and still sells out all their NHL games.

Its junior hockey, not near the same thrill as seeing the best in the world. Stupid article, to convince a bunch of stupid people.

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11-07-2012, 11:16 AM
  #29
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OHL not succeeding in the GTA = Toronto isn't a hockey town, would fail as a high school essay. They don't call Brampton "Bramladesh" for nothing. THN has sunk below being worthy of reading. Perhaps when they start printing it on toilet paper I'll renew my subscription.

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11-07-2012, 11:19 AM
  #30
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I don't know, don't the Marlies do fairly well?

This is a similar debate amongst Habs fans who want a junior or an AHL team in Montreal. I'll always contend that Montreal isn't a hockey city, it's a Habs city.

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11-07-2012, 11:26 AM
  #31
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Wow, we should all take a serious look at getting into sports writing. Apparently they'll hire anyone.

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11-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #32
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Toronto is not a junior hockey town because we have 3 other professional sports teams in the city. Go to Swift Current or Moose Jaw or Belleville...it's the only thing going for them in those towns. Toronto is a hockey town, but with other professional league options junior hockey is just not big enough here to hold any weight in the city. I'm a born and raised Torontonian and I'd rather go to a Jays game, a Raptors game, an Argos game over watching the Steelheads or go to Brampton and watch the Battalion.

Another good question is how many people in these small towns are just hockey fans and not sports fans? Do they follow the Raptors, do they follow the Jays, or is it junior hockey all year long?

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11-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #33
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Everyone that I grew up playing hockey with we're Leafs fans. As I'm getting older I'm finding that most of my friends who didn't play hockey are now hardcore Leafs fans. That being said, a high percentage of white kids and a growing percentage of black and Asian children in Toronto are playing hockey. It's still (and likely always will be) the biggest sport in Toronto.
I've had seasons with the bruins for 5 years.. Vancouver had one of the more diverse cross sections of fans i've ever seen. Second was toronto. I think the asian population (especially vancouver) for leafs fans is growing.

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11-07-2012, 11:44 AM
  #34
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It proves that Toronto is more of a big ticket event city than anything else. Being from Toronto, Neely, I'm surprised you would even post this to leave it up for debate. Toronto not a hockey town Yea, right THN

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11-07-2012, 11:47 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
I know what you meant, but the same can't be said for (many) other HF threads when discussing certain NHL teams that happen to play in various cities and/or regions across North America.
Shh! The double standard must be maintained.

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11-07-2012, 11:47 AM
  #36
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OK...so I get that Toronto is a Leafs town and I wouldn't question for a second that's it's a hockey market, but aren't these all arguments against putting a second team there (Markham)?

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11-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
I'll ignore this years attendance as it's probably a little inflated due to the NHL Lockout.

So last year they were 14th and you think that's good? The GTA probably has the biggest base of hockey fans in the world to draw from and the best they can do is 14th?
Not saying it's great or good, but it's not horrible. It's average and to say it's anything but that isn't being objective. I would say there is a lot of fans who aren't going to spend their money on AHL or Jr hockey when they have the choice to spend it on NHL hockey because those leagues aren't top level hockey. If you aren't the Leafs (or another NHL team, assuming the NHL moves one), then you have to make a huge effort to bring in customers just like every other minor sports team.

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11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
I'll ignore this years attendance as it's probably a little inflated due to the NHL Lockout.

So last year they were 14th and you think that's good? The GTA probably has the biggest base of hockey fans in the world to draw from and the best they can do is 14th?





And from the article in the OP:
In 2010/2011:
http://jrhockeyrecruit.com/2011/05/o...ndance-report/

So yeah... like basically every other team in the OHL a team in 1st place brings in good numbers and a team in last place doesn't.

And as for the Marlies.. yeah I'd say 14th is pretty good for a tier 2 hockey league in the same city as a professional hockey, baseball, basketball, football and soccer teams.

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11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
  #39
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I think to say that Toronto isn't a hockey town is a bit ridiculous but I have noticed in the last few years people losing interest in hockey in the GTA. Personally I have friends who grew up in Toronto playing hockey, worshipping the Leafs, obsessed with EA NHL games but as we got older, many many of them started to lose interest in hockey and started to watch football, basketball...etc. My friends from Montreal or from other areas never seem to change. We grew up loving hockey and we still love hockey the exact same way. Very few have lost interest in hockey.

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11-07-2012, 11:58 AM
  #40
Neely2005
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
It proves that Toronto is more of a big ticket event city than anything else. Being from Toronto, Neely, I'm surprised you would even post this to leave it up for debate. Toronto not a hockey town Yea, right THN
Toronto is a leaf town, not a hockey town IMHO. To many professional hockey teams have failed or struggle in Toronto/GTA.

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11-07-2012, 11:58 AM
  #41
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I think this shows why we shouldn't have another NHL team so close to Toronto.

Unless they name them the Hamilton Alexanders, which would be awesome.

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11-07-2012, 12:01 PM
  #42
Neely2005
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Not saying it's great or good, but it's not horrible. It's average and to say it's anything but that isn't being objective. I would say there is a lot of fans who aren't going to spend their money on AHL or Jr hockey when they have the choice to spend it on NHL hockey because those leagues aren't top level hockey. If you aren't the Leafs (or another NHL team, assuming the NHL moves one), then you have to make a huge effort to bring in customers just like every other minor sports team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
In 2010/2011:
http://jrhockeyrecruit.com/2011/05/o...ndance-report/

So yeah... like basically every other team in the OHL a team in 1st place brings in good numbers and a team in last place doesn't.

And as for the Marlies.. yeah I'd say 14th is pretty good for a tier 2 hockey league in the same city as a professional hockey, baseball, basketball, football and soccer teams.
From the article in the OP:

Quote:
Toronto still has the American League Marlies, but they have rarely been in the league’s top half in attendance numbers and only saw a spike last spring when the team advanced to the final. The effect of that playoff run lingers, but even as the NHL locks out the Maple Leafs, the Marlies are 10th in attendance through four home games, well behind another big NHL market in Chicago.

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11-07-2012, 12:05 PM
  #43
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OK...so I get that Toronto is a Leafs town and I wouldn't question for a second that's it's a hockey market, but aren't these all arguments against putting a second team there (Markham)?
That's basically what I've always argued.
Needs to be more SW Ontario oriented (Hamilton, or KW-C tricity area) and marketed.

Markham is dead in the water imo. At best it'll be like the Islanders.

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11-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
From the article in the OP:
Through 4 home games... lets talk about this if the lockout lasts a significant amount of time...

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11-07-2012, 12:18 PM
  #45
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That's basically what I've always argued.
Needs to be more SW Ontario oriented (Hamilton, or KW-C tricity area) and marketed.

Markham is dead in the water imo. At best it'll be like the Islanders.
Another GTA NHL hockey team will work just fine as long as a) They play out of the Air Canada Center or b) The Arena is located in a spot that is easy to access with public transit and has the proper infrastructure around it (roads, bars, restaurants, hotels, etc).

From what I've read in this thread about the location of the the GTA Jr arenas is that the infrastructure (roads mainly) around them isnt' good enough.

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11-07-2012, 12:20 PM
  #46
Neely2005
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Through 4 home games... lets talk about this if the lockout lasts a significant amount of time...
And last season the Marlies were 14th in league attendance. That's pretty bad for a market like the GTA that has so many hockey fans to draw from.

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11-07-2012, 12:21 PM
  #47
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London is where another NHL team needs to go. They're crazy about the OHL and they'll get a ton of fans from all of those other cities around there as well. It's also far enough to be out of both Leaf and Sabre territory

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11-07-2012, 12:22 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
And last season the Marlies were 14th in league attendance. That's pretty bad for a market like the GTA that has so many hockey fans to draw from.
Like I said... 14th in a city with the most popular NHL team, a baseball team, a basketball team, a football team and a soccer team.... and yet they're still in the upper half of the league for a second tier hockey team. I don't see how anyone can not think that's successful.

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11-07-2012, 12:28 PM
  #49
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It just sounds like people in Toronto honestly don't want to appreciate the best junior hockey there is to offer. Move it to a place where people appreciate these players and the game.

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11-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #50
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I can't believe they pay people to write stupid statements...

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