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Old
11-06-2012, 02:39 PM
  #51
Hero
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Hell yes from Toronto.

Proven > Potential

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:42 PM
  #52
HockeyThoughts
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Stastny is still our #1 center, and we value him as such. And don't try to use the contract as an
excuse, since we are not bothered by it. If you want Stastny, you have to pay what we value him as. Gardiner stepped in to the NHL and had one good and now Leaf fans are hailing him as some sort of sure thing that is absolutely
untouchable. Excuse me if I need
to see more than 1 year before I jump on the Gardiner is Awsome bandwagon. Do you know how many players had great rookie seasons and then terrible second ones? Again, go look at Luke Schenn. Remember when he was being hailed by Leaf fans as a #1 shutdown defensman who would be an absolute beast? What makes you think your entirely unproven young defensman who had one good year is worth more than our #1 center?
Firstly, Ryan O'Rielly was your #1 center. He logged more minutes then Statsny in all of PPTOI/G, SHTOI/G, ESTOI/G and obviously TOI/G.

Why do you keep mentioning Luke Schenn? He is a 22 year old shutdown defenseman (who was drafted #5th overall) who was thrown into a run-and-gun offensive system with no semblance of a competent goaltender playing behind him. Furthermore, he has been able to improve both offensively and defensively each season seeing his stats increase since his rookie season. Not to mention he had enough value to return a recent 23year old 2nd overall winger which one would consider "pretty good value."

I'm also sorry to break it to you but a ~20G-50ish point center with no defensive ability is not some incredibly elusive trading piece. Now factor in that Statsny is grossly overpaid at 6.6M per season and has seen his points decline in each of the last 3 seasons, I think its fair to assume his value isn't at an all-time high.

For example, Mike Riberio(32 year old, 5M/year) a center who has averaged 23G-75pts over the last 5 seasons and is fresh off a 18G-63pt campaign (in which he missed 8 games) recently returned just Cody Eakin (85th overall in 2009/HockeysFuture 6.5B) and a 2012 2nd-round draft pick (54th overall).

Furthermore, Derek Roy(29 year old, 4M/year) a center who has averaged 28G-69pts over his past 5 seasons returned just Steve Ott (3rd line agitator/defensive center) and Adam Pardy (fringe NHL defenseman).

So what makes Paul Statsny's value differ so heavily from Mike Riberio's or Derek Roy's?

Is he younger? Yes. However, is his cap hit considerably higher? Yes.
Is he a better goalscorer then Roy? No.
Is he a better playmaker then Riberio? No.
Is he an impressive playoff player? Nope.
Is he large, physical or defensively capable? No, no and no.

Out of Colorado's 3 centers, Paul Statsny is by far the one I want least. Matt Duchene is young, speedy and offensively gifted, I would begrudgingly give this package for him even after his disappointing season. Ryan O'Rielly is a young great defensive center, but in terms of offensive ability he is largely unproven. I would not give up this package for him, as we have been burned too many times in the past with players who are not proven. Paul Statsny is declining and his cap hit is too high for what he brings to the table. Do I think he would look good between Lupul & Kessel? Yes. But not at the cost of a top 6 winger (MacArthur), our top 3 prospect (Colborne) and our most promising young NHL defenseman (Gardiner).

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:59 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Firstly, Ryan O'Rielly was your #1 center. He logged more minutes then Statsny in all of PPTOI/G, SHTOI/G, ESTOI/G and obviously TOI/G.

Why do you keep mentioning Luke Schenn? He is a 22 year old shutdown defenseman (who was drafted #5th overall) who was thrown into a run-and-gun offensive system with no semblance of a competent goaltender playing behind him. Furthermore, he has been able to improve both offensively and defensively each season seeing his stats increase since his rookie season. Not to mention he had enough value to return a recent 23year old 2nd overall winger which one would consider "pretty good value."

I'm also sorry to break it to you but a ~20G-50ish point center with no defensive ability is not some incredibly elusive trading piece. Now factor in that Statsny is grossly overpaid at 6.6M per season and has seen his points decline in each of the last 3 seasons, I think its fair to assume his value isn't at an all-time high.

For example, Mike Riberio(32 year old, 5M/year) a center who has averaged 23G-75pts over the last 5 seasons and is fresh off a 18G-63pt campaign (in which he missed 8 games) recently returned just Cody Eakin (85th overall in 2009/HockeysFuture 6.5B) and a 2012 2nd-round draft pick (54th overall).

Furthermore, Derek Roy(29 year old, 4M/year) a center who has averaged 28G-69pts over his past 5 seasons returned just Steve Ott (3rd line agitator/defensive center) and Adam Pardy (fringe NHL defenseman).

So what makes Paul Statsny's value differ so heavily from Mike Riberio's or Derek Roy's?

Is he younger? Yes. However, is his cap hit considerably higher? Yes.
Is he a better goalscorer then Roy? No.
Is he a better playmaker then Riberio? No.
Is he an impressive playoff player? Nope.
Is he large, physical or defensively capable? No, no and no.

Out of Colorado's 3 centers, Paul Statsny is by far the one I want least. Matt Duchene is young, speedy and offensively gifted, I would begrudgingly give this package for him even after his disappointing season. Ryan O'Rielly is a young great defensive center, but in terms of offensive ability he is largely unproven. I would not give up this package for him, as we have been burned too many times in the past with players who are not proven. Paul Statsny is declining and his cap hit is too high for what he brings to the table. Do I think he would look good between Lupul & Kessel? Yes. But not at the cost of a top 6 winger (MacArthur), our top 3 prospect (Colborne) and our most promising young NHL defenseman (Gardiner).
You lost all credibility with that first sentence, and the second is exactly why we don't plan on trading him any time soon. Much more value to us than he would get on the market right now.

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:21 PM
  #54
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It's funny when people try to tell us what type of player Stastny is and that our other centers are better than him.

Stastny is and was our #1 center last season, the season before that and all the way back to when Sakic was on the team. He's our best center, he is a very capable two-way center that has extremely adept vision for his playmaking abilities. I would easily take his playmaking abilities over Ribeiro, assist totals are not indicative of Stastny's passing the past two seasons when you compare linemates and their goal totals.

We will gladly keep our overrated 2nd line center though.

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:19 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
It's funny when people try to tell us what type of player Stastny is and that our other centers are better than him.

Stastny is and was our #1 center last season, the season before that and all the way back to when Sakic was on the team. He's our best center, he is a very capable two-way center that has extremely adept vision for his playmaking abilities. I would easily take his playmaking abilities over Ribeiro, assist totals are not indicative of Stastny's passing the past two seasons when you compare linemates and their goal totals.

We will gladly keep our overrated 2nd line center though.
I still don't know why people call Stastny overrated.

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:47 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Firstly, Ryan O'Rielly was your #1 center. He logged more minutes then Statsny in all of PPTOI/G, SHTOI/G, ESTOI/G and obviously TOI/G.

Why do you keep mentioning Luke Schenn? He is a 22 year old shutdown defenseman (who was drafted #5th overall) who was thrown into a run-and-gun offensive system with no semblance of a competent goaltender playing behind him. Furthermore, he has been able to improve both offensively and defensively each season seeing his stats increase since his rookie season. Not to mention he had enough value to return a recent 23year old 2nd overall winger which one would consider "pretty good value."

I'm also sorry to break it to you but a ~20G-50ish point center with no defensive ability is not some incredibly elusive trading piece. Now factor in that Statsny is grossly overpaid at 6.6M per season and has seen his points decline in each of the last 3 seasons, I think its fair to assume his value isn't at an all-time high.

For example, Mike Riberio(32 year old, 5M/year) a center who has averaged 23G-75pts over the last 5 seasons and is fresh off a 18G-63pt campaign (in which he missed 8 games) recently returned just Cody Eakin (85th overall in 2009/HockeysFuture 6.5B) and a 2012 2nd-round draft pick (54th overall).

Furthermore, Derek Roy(29 year old, 4M/year) a center who has averaged 28G-69pts over his past 5 seasons returned just Steve Ott (3rd line agitator/defensive center) and Adam Pardy (fringe NHL defenseman).

So what makes Paul Statsny's value differ so heavily from Mike Riberio's or Derek Roy's?

Is he younger? Yes. However, is his cap hit considerably higher? Yes.
Is he a better goalscorer then Roy? No.
Is he a better playmaker then Riberio? No.
Is he an impressive playoff player? Nope.
Is he large, physical or defensively capable? No, no and no.

Out of Colorado's 3 centers, Paul Statsny is by far the one I want least. Matt Duchene is young, speedy and offensively gifted, I would begrudgingly give this package for him even after his disappointing season. Ryan O'Rielly is a young great defensive center, but in terms of offensive ability he is largely unproven. I would not give up this package for him, as we have been burned too many times in the past with players who are not proven. Paul Statsny is declining and his cap hit is too high for what he brings to the table. Do I think he would look good between Lupul & Kessel? Yes. But not at the cost of a top 6 winger (MacArthur), our top 3 prospect (Colborne) and our most promising young NHL defenseman (Gardiner).
I find it amusing that a Leaf fan, who probably watched the Avs once, would pretend to know more about who was our #1 center than an Avs fan. What are you basing it off of? All the Avs games you watched? Stastny was certainly our #1 center. O'Reilly was not, sorry. Your basing everything your claiming off stats. Even based off stats, O'Reilly's grand total of 30 more minutes of ice time all season does not make him our #1 center somehow. I'm pretty sure Grabovski did not play with Kessel and Lupul on your 1st line, yet he has more ice time than Bozak, who did. If people base their opinions off stats...well, it certainly explains a lot of stuff if people post things as facts around here based of stats. I call it ignorance. Going into this season, if we have one, Stastny will be our #1 center. Not O'Reilly. So yeah, Stastny is our #1 center and we view him as such.



Why do I bring up Schenn? Because we heard all the same things from Leaf fans about him we are now hearing about Gardiner and Rielly. No, I am not comparing playing styles or anything. Merely pointing out that one good first year in the league does not guarentee they will be top pairing d-men. Schenn will still probably have an excellent career, but I think you have to admit things did not exactly turn our as hoped. Gardiner could become everything Leaf fans are touting him to be, but he might also not be. No, I am not bashing Gardiner so don't jump all over me.



Best part of this...no defensive ability...you just lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. If you don't watch the player, don't comment. He is not outstanding defensively, but he is very solid. Saying he has no defensive ability is pure ignorance.


So...comparing him to Riberio and Roy...good job. You should have gathered from that why Stastny has not yet been traded and why he won't be traded. If a team feels like giving us an offer for what Stastny can be, a 70+ point center, we will listen. If you make an offer for a 55 point center...well, that explains why he has not been traded. Don't you think Burke has already inquired about Stastny? Don't you think Dallas and Washington also asked his price, as well as several other teams? For instance, if you think Riberio and Stastny hold similiar value, don't you think Burke would have fixed his center issue by acquiring Stastny for something like a good prospect+a 2nd? Stastny will not be moved when his value is lowest right. Avs fans fully recognize he has been struggling. We also recognize why he has been struggling and what he is capable of. Is what we want more than what a 55 point center is worth? Yes. Would we accept anything less than what we are asking? No. Its not like the Avs are backed against a wall here. Where we have to move Stastny for the best offer we get. If we don't get any offer we like that fills our needs, he won't move, its that simple. Avs fans have stated this repeatedly in Stastny threads but some people refuse to get it. You can claim a package or player is "fair value" for Stastny. That does not meant that package or player will get him.


If Stastny is the last Avs center you want, great. Not one offer I have seen from the Leafs would get any of our centers. I'm going off track here a bit, and this is not directed at you, but I find it amusing how many Leaf fans on HF want Stastny, then start bashing him after Avs fans name the price. Its quite amusing. From your post, I find it interesting you state you would not give this package up for O'Reilly. I'm perfectly ok with that, but its ironic that you state you would not trade this package for O'Reilly because he is unproven. Last I checked, the centerpiece of the Leafs package, Gardiner, is the most unexperienced piece here. If you read what you wrote there, you should understand why Avs fans are refusing to give up something proven(Stastny) for something unproven(Gardiner) Of course, I will now be told that our 55 point point grossly overpayed center is not worth a young d-men with top pairing upside, despite everything I just said.


And last bit..only on HF would a 26 year old center be in the decline already. If you had actually watched Avs games, you'd realize how horrendous his linemates have been. But fine...Stastny is a 26 year old 55 point 6.6m 2nd line center deadweight. Leafs would be better off without him. We will keep him. We will also hang on to Duchene, who after one injury filled season, might only ever be a 50-60 point center. His 67 point sophomore season was a fluke. And of course we will keep O'Reilly, who only has had one good season. Making it into the NHL at the age of 18, putting up 26 points while being very defensively responsible, does not prove anything at all of course. He is entirely unproven.

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #57
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Since the Avs greatly over-rated our centers value does that mean no team will pay up for them and we'll get to keep em? Cause that would be great.

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11-06-2012, 07:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Since the Avs greatly over-rated our centers value does that mean no team will pay up for them and we'll get to keep em? Cause that would be great.
I know. What an utter shame. We get to keep all our overrated centers that apparently are not that good but everyone else wants.

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Old
11-07-2012, 09:09 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I find it amusing that a Leaf fan, who probably watched the Avs once, would pretend to know more about who was our #1 center than an Avs fan. What are you basing it off of? All the Avs games you watched? Stastny was certainly our #1 center. O'Reilly was not, sorry. Your basing everything your claiming off stats. Even based off stats, O'Reilly's grand total of 30 more minutes of ice time all season does not make him our #1 center somehow. I'm pretty sure Grabovski did not play with Kessel and Lupul on your 1st line, yet he has more ice time than Bozak, who did. If people base their opinions off stats...well, it certainly explains a lot of stuff if people post things as facts around here based of stats. I call it ignorance. Going into this season, if we have one, Stastny will be our #1 center. Not O'Reilly. So yeah, Stastny is our #1 center and we view him as such.



Why do I bring up Schenn? Because we heard all the same things from Leaf fans about him we are now hearing about Gardiner and Rielly. No, I am not comparing playing styles or anything. Merely pointing out that one good first year in the league does not guarentee they will be top pairing d-men. Schenn will still probably have an excellent career, but I think you have to admit things did not exactly turn our as hoped. Gardiner could become everything Leaf fans are touting him to be, but he might also not be. No, I am not bashing Gardiner so don't jump all over me.



Best part of this...no defensive ability...you just lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. If you don't watch the player, don't comment. He is not outstanding defensively, but he is very solid. Saying he has no defensive ability is pure ignorance.


So...comparing him to Riberio and Roy...good job. You should have gathered from that why Stastny has not yet been traded and why he won't be traded. If a team feels like giving us an offer for what Stastny can be, a 70+ point center, we will listen. If you make an offer for a 55 point center...well, that explains why he has not been traded. Don't you think Burke has already inquired about Stastny? Don't you think Dallas and Washington also asked his price, as well as several other teams? For instance, if you think Riberio and Stastny hold similiar value, don't you think Burke would have fixed his center issue by acquiring Stastny for something like a good prospect+a 2nd? Stastny will not be moved when his value is lowest right. Avs fans fully recognize he has been struggling. We also recognize why he has been struggling and what he is capable of. Is what we want more than what a 55 point center is worth? Yes. Would we accept anything less than what we are asking? No. Its not like the Avs are backed against a wall here. Where we have to move Stastny for the best offer we get. If we don't get any offer we like that fills our needs, he won't move, its that simple. Avs fans have stated this repeatedly in Stastny threads but some people refuse to get it. You can claim a package or player is "fair value" for Stastny. That does not meant that package or player will get him.


If Stastny is the last Avs center you want, great. Not one offer I have seen from the Leafs would get any of our centers. I'm going off track here a bit, and this is not directed at you, but I find it amusing how many Leaf fans on HF want Stastny, then start bashing him after Avs fans name the price. Its quite amusing. From your post, I find it interesting you state you would not give this package up for O'Reilly. I'm perfectly ok with that, but its ironic that you state you would not trade this package for O'Reilly because he is unproven. Last I checked, the centerpiece of the Leafs package, Gardiner, is the most unexperienced piece here. If you read what you wrote there, you should understand why Avs fans are refusing to give up something proven(Stastny) for something unproven(Gardiner) Of course, I will now be told that our 55 point point grossly overpayed center is not worth a young d-men with top pairing upside, despite everything I just said.


And last bit..only on HF would a 26 year old center be in the decline already. If you had actually watched Avs games, you'd realize how horrendous his linemates have been. But fine...Stastny is a 26 year old 55 point 6.6m 2nd line center deadweight. Leafs would be better off without him. We will keep him. We will also hang on to Duchene, who after one injury filled season, might only ever be a 50-60 point center. His 67 point sophomore season was a fluke. And of course we will keep O'Reilly, who only has had one good season. Making it into the NHL at the age of 18, putting up 26 points while being very defensively responsible, does not prove anything at all of course. He is entirely unproven.
Your 55 point point grossly overpaid center is not worth a young d-men with top pairing upside.

Just kidding...awesome post but you are right, it's going to fall on deaf ears (or deaf eyes?)...

This is much too complex anyways...instead, this:

I have heard that Paul Stastny is BANNED from the city of Toronto by the mayor, that bad-guy furniture bandit dude. He can never play for the Leafs, it's unfortunate but it looks as though everyone is going to have to move on.

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Old
11-07-2012, 10:38 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
I still don't know why people call Stastny overrated.
Because he had an awful calendar year in 2011, and as we all know the only way a player can have worse stats one year than the year before is if they've been exposed as talentless hacks. Nevermind that he's still scored his customary 20 goals and that his production bounced back up to finish the season when Davey Jones sobered up and NHL Superstar Jamie McGinn arrived on the scene.

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Old
11-07-2012, 10:39 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by fearless leaf View Post
to avs

- jake gardiner
- joe colborne
- clarke macarthur


to leafs

- paul statsny
wtf? Hell no!

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Old
11-07-2012, 10:50 AM
  #62
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The Gorilla in the room is that Stastny is only signed through 2014, and if we lose this year that means it's possibly only 1 year of Paul Stastny. Without knowing if he'd resign in Colorado or Toronto (or anywhere else for that matter), it's really difficult to gauge what he's worth. But for Colorado you'd assume we'd trade him with the thought he will resign (or possibly a deal like Adam Foote where someone gives us draft picks if he does resign).

Was really hoping we'd have this season intact so it would make the Stastny decision easier, but it doesn't appear that way.

At the current cap mark, I'd ask Stastny to take a small decrease in salary, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to sign up for that.

Anyways, all this stuff is information none of us would know and is probably discussed behind the closed doors with his agent.

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11-07-2012, 11:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
The Gorilla in the room is that Stastny is only signed through 2014, and if we lose this year that means it's possibly only 1 year of Paul Stastny. Without knowing if he'd resign in Colorado or Toronto (or anywhere else for that matter), it's really difficult to gauge what he's worth. But for Colorado you'd assume we'd trade him with the thought he will resign (or possibly a deal like Adam Foote where someone gives us draft picks if he does resign).

Was really hoping we'd have this season intact so it would make the Stastny decision easier, but it doesn't appear that way.

At the current cap mark, I'd ask Stastny to take a small decrease in salary, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to sign up for that.

Anyways, all this stuff is information none of us would know and is probably discussed behind the closed doors with his agent.
To me, Pauly Walnuts doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's going to hold out to get as much money as possible. He's already going to have made almost $40M from his current contract when it's all said and done and he's still, at least a $5M player at this point, so I wouldn't be surprised if he re-signed for less than what he's currently making. Apart from the fact that he considers St-Louis his hometown and that he likes playing there, all signs point to Stastny being happy playing for the Avs.

It's all going to come down to next summer, when the Avs are actually able to extend him, IF he's open to re-signing. If not, then I can see them shipping him out and getting something for him and not letting him walk as a UFA for nothing the following year.

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11-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #64
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Unless Stastny averages PPG+ until the end of his contract I don't see how he could demand more than 6 million from the Avs or anyone.

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11-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #65
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1."Stastny isn't overpaid at 6.6 putting up 55"

2."No need for MacArthur, we have 5-6 better options"

3."Stastny's production only declined each of the last 3 years because of poor linemates" - See number 2

4."Stastny is still our number one centre, despite playing less minutes in every situation then Ryan O'Reilly"

5."Stastny is still a number one centre, despite him not reaching 60 points in each of the past 2 seasons"


Some of you guys kill me... Stastny is a definte upgrate at centre for Toronto, but they wouldn't give up that package for it.. I can't imagine any logical and informed Avs fans who would say no to that deal.

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11-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
1."Stastny isn't overpaid at 6.6 putting up 55"
Who said he wasn't overpaid? But he is most definitely not a 55 point center to us and accordingly we view him closer to being a 6mil center.

Quote:
2."No need for MacArthur, we have 5-6 better options"
Landeskog, Jones, McGinn, Downie, Parenteau... Hejduk... looks like 5-6 to me.

Quote:
3."Stastny's production only declined each of the last 3 years because of poor linemates" - See number 2
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1

Parenteau, McGinn AND Downie were all brought to our team within the final 20 games of the season or free agency...

Quote:
4."Stastny is still our number one centre, despite playing less minutes in every situation then Ryan O'Reilly"
Stastny is still our number one center, but you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe.

Quote:
5."Stastny is still a number one centre, despite him not reaching 60 points in each of the past 2 seasons"
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1

Quote:
Some of you guys kill me... Stastny is a definte upgrate at centre for Toronto, but they wouldn't give up that package for it.. I can't imagine any logical and informed Avs fans who would say no to that deal.
Logical and informed Av fan reporting for duty, sir. I humbly agree that we should trade our longest serving Avalanche after Hejduk retires and our most experienced center that provides a game of which neither Duchene or O'Reilly can for an underperforming prospect, an insignificant winger and a defender that may or may not be able to hold down the #2 position on our team going forward.

Avs should just give every center we have to the other teams when they offer something they consider high value.

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11-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
1."Stastny isn't overpaid at 6.6 putting up 55"

2."No need for MacArthur, we have 5-6 better options"

3."Stastny's production only declined each of the last 3 years because of poor linemates" - See number 2

4."Stastny is still our number one centre, despite playing less minutes in every situation then Ryan O'Reilly"

5."Stastny is still a number one centre, despite him not reaching 60 points in each of the past 2 seasons"


Some of you guys kill me... Stastny is a definte upgrate at centre for Toronto, but they wouldn't give up that package for it.. I can't imagine any logical and informed Avs fans who would say no to that deal.
Uh-huh...just like 67 points is 2nd line production for a center.

Look, that's how ALL Avs fans feel and for the record, do you see a lot of these proposals MADE by Avs fans? No, you don't. We are just fine with Stastny's PLAY, his SALARY and his place on our own DEPTH chart.

You can stop worrying about Paul Stastny and start worrying about Kyle Quincey.

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11-07-2012, 12:06 PM
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Uh-huh...just like 67 points is 2nd line production for a center.

Look, that's how ALL Avs fans feel and for the record, do you see a lot of these proposals MADE by Avs fans? No, you don't. We are just fine with Stastny's PLAY, his SALARY and his place on our own DEPTH chart.

You can stop worrying about Paul Stastny and start worrying about Kyle Quincey.
I"m not worried... Why should I be? Sometimes you have to overpay to get what you need when there isn't much of a market for it? I'm sure Ken Holland knows what he's doing.. His record speaks for itself, no?

The Wings will always be a force in the west, and the Avs will revel in mediocrity.


Last edited by piqued: 11-07-2012 at 04:02 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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11-07-2012, 12:16 PM
  #69
Lonewolfe2015
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It's sad that people won't respond to being confronted over something they posted but will in turn call them delusional.

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11-07-2012, 12:23 PM
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It's sad that people won't respond to being confronted over something they posted but will in turn call them delusional.
Whats the point of arguing a difference of opinion?

0.68 PPG isn't a first line centre IMO. Clearly some Avs fans disagree, so be it. If you can't be realistic then I couldn't care less about your opinion.

Theres 10-12 first line centres in the league. Duchene isn't one of them. Maybe someday, but not today.

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11-07-2012, 12:27 PM
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Too much from Toronto's point of view. I'd say that Gardiner should be as close to an untouchable player as they have. To me, he's the kind of player you use to build a solid defence around.

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11-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Whats the point of arguing a difference of opinion?

0.68 PPG isn't a first line centre IMO. Clearly some Avs fans disagree, so be it. If you can't be realistic then I couldn't care less about your opinion.

Theres 10-12 first line centres in the league. Duchene isn't one of them. Maybe someday, but not today.
There are only 10-12 elite first line Cs in the league, and, no, Stastny is not in that group, but he's still the first line C on probably 18-20 teams in the league. Give him wingers that can score, and he's a solid 70-80p, two way C. He won't win any awards, but awards don't win Cups (see Ovechkin/Stamkos/Sedins/etc).

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11-07-2012, 12:39 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
1."Stastny isn't overpaid at 6.6 putting up 55"

2."No need for MacArthur, we have 5-6 better options"

3."Stastny's production only declined each of the last 3 years because of poor linemates" - See number 2

4."Stastny is still our number one centre, despite playing less minutes in every situation then Ryan O'Reilly"

5."Stastny is still a number one centre, despite him not reaching 60 points in each of the past 2 seasons"


Some of you guys kill me... Stastny is a definte upgrate at centre for Toronto, but they wouldn't give up that package for it.. I can't imagine any logical and informed Avs fans who would say no to that deal.
This is a really good response that echoes my sentiments to a tee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Who said he wasn't overpaid? But he is most definitely not a 55 point center to us and accordingly we view him closer to being a 6mil center.



Landeskog, Jones, McGinn, Downie, Parenteau... Hejduk... looks like 5-6 to me.



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1

Parenteau, McGinn AND Downie were all brought to our team within the final 20 games of the season or free agency...



Stastny is still our number one center, but you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe.



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1



Logical and informed Av fan reporting for duty, sir. I humbly agree that we should trade our longest serving Avalanche after Hejduk retires and our most experienced center that provides a game of which neither Duchene or O'Reilly can for an underperforming prospect, an insignificant winger and a defender that may or may not be able to hold down the #2 position on our team going forward.

Avs should just give every center we have to the other teams when they offer something they consider high value.
1. Do we just ignore his most recent 2 seasons then? He is most certainly closer to a a ~50pt center than a ~70pt center at this point.

2. Landeskog? Yes, he's a beast.
Jones? Nope. MacArthur has outperformed him every season of their careers.
McGinn? Nope. MacArthur has outperformed him every season of their careers.
Downie? At best it's a wash. Would give the nod to Downie for physicality but what else does he really do better?
Paranteu? Sure. But also keep in mind he is unproven as an Avalanche, and more importantly not playing with John Tavares.
Hejduk? Um..36 year old, soft winger with declining numbers. Great captain of the Avalanche and veteran presence in a young locker room? Yes. But he definitely brings more value to the Avs then any other team. So no.

So that's 2 out of 6 wingers that are better than MacArthur. Last time I checked teams have 4 wingers in their top 6 and 6 in their top 9. MacArthur would definitely bolster your wingers.

4/5. Maybe telling yourself that he's your #1 center while disregarding every statistic makes you feel a little better about his massive contact..

And that thread is pretty funny. You guys really will go to great lengths to try to brainwash yourselves into believing that Statsny hasn't underperformed to his own fault but rather every other factor possible is causing him to underachieve.

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11-07-2012, 12:55 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
There are only 10-12 elite first line Cs in the league, and, no, Stastny is not in that group, but he's still the first line C on probably 18-20 teams in the league. Give him wingers that can score, and he's a solid 70-80p, two way C. He won't win any awards, but awards don't win Cups (see Ovechkin/Stamkos/Sedins/etc).
Aren't first line centres elite?

Awarding someone a title by default, not by merit isn't logical. Look no further then the Leafs for evidence.

18-20 teams?

Ana - No
Bos - No
Buf - Yes
Cal - Yes
Car - No
Chi - No
Col - I guess? ROR played more minutes in every situation, so you tell me?
CBJ - Yes
Dal - No, I take Jamie Benn every day of the week
Det - No
Edm - Yes, although many would argue RNH above him.
Fla - Yes
LAK - No
Min - No
Mon - Yes
Nsh - Yes
NJD - Yes
NYI - No
NYR - No
Ott - No
Phi- No
Phx - Yes
Pit - No
SJS - No
Stl - Yes
TBL - No
Tor - Yes
Van - No
WSH - No
WPG - Yes

I count 13, arguably, including his own. Some like MTL and NJ are arguable as well. I'm not a fan of Plekanec or Zajac, so I gave Stastny the benefit of the doubt.

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11-07-2012, 01:24 PM
  #75
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I think we can all agree that Bozak is not just a better player than Staz but more importantly on a better contract, so the Leafs should just keep him and let us hold onto our overpaid 50 point center.

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