HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

With the #191 pick, the Wild select Tyler Graovac

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #51
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
Wow. 7th rounder now a legit prospect. Awesome.
I believe he's an overager in a very offensive league.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2012, 10:12 PM
  #52
Circulartheory
@danccchan
 
Circulartheory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I believe he's an overager in a very offensive league.
I don't think OHL is supposed to be very offensive...

Circulartheory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2012, 11:01 PM
  #53
Minnesota
Global Moderator
L'Étoile du Nord
 
Minnesota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Country: United States
Posts: 17,652
vCash: 1100
Regarding offensiveness of Canadian leagues, isn't it...

QMJHL>OHL>WHL?

I could be completely off-base, though...

Minnesota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:39 AM
  #54
Randy BoBandy
Cheeseburger Party
 
Randy BoBandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Regarding offensiveness of Canadian leagues, isn't it...

QMJHL>OHL>WHL?

I could be completely off-base, though...
Its not like this is a fact. Would like to see some statistics. I would guess goals per game would be the measure of offensiveness most would look for and I'm sure that fluctuates from year to year in each league based on players and quality of competition throughout the league.


Last edited by Randy BoBandy: 11-07-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Randy BoBandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 10:56 AM
  #55
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
Its not like this is a fact or something proven over time. Would like to see some statistics. I would guess goals per game would be the measure of offensiveness most would look for and I'm sure that fluctuates from year to year in each league based on players and quality of competition throughout the league.
I would make a trade for this guy, 2013 6th round pick

guyzeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 11:06 AM
  #56
Puhis
@Puhis46
 
Puhis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Puhis Send a message via Skype™ to Puhis
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
I would make a trade for this guy, 2013 6th round pick
I'd say value wise that's probably up there (maybe a 5th rounder would be closer) but I doubt GMCF (or any fans, for that matter) would be willing to trade him now that his stock is on the rise.

Puhis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #57
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Regarding offensiveness of Canadian leagues, isn't it...

QMJHL>OHL>WHL?

I could be completely off-base, though...
That's what people traditionally think, but it's not accurate. For some reason stats for the OHL and QMJHL for 11-12 are flaky, but looking at 10-11 and 09-10:

WHL 10-11: 6.76
WHL 09-10: 6.53
OHL 10-11: 7.26
OHL 09-10: 6.95
QMJHL 10-11: 6.72
QMJHL 09-10: 6.91

(These are all goal totals per game calculated by total league goals divided by number of teams, divided by games per team, multiplied by 2)

The OHL has emerged at least in the past few years as the highest scoring league. The QMJHL and WHL appear to be approximately similar, but the WHL is trending upwards while the QMJHL is trending downwards. If things continue how they were for the past two years or so, the order should be:

OHL > WHL > QMJHL

Factor in the presumably better goaltending in the WHL and OHL (this is judging from drafting over the past few years) and not only are they scoring fewer goals in the Q, it's against seemingly lower quality goaltending besides.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 11:56 AM
  #58
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,017
vCash: 500
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.

I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 11:59 AM
  #59
Puhis
@Puhis46
 
Puhis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Puhis Send a message via Skype™ to Puhis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.

I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
Graovac is now 6'4, 205.

Another 2 goals tonight, we're only half way through the second.



But yeah, your point stands. We're not about to give him up as I said. He has size, seems to have grit and is starting to develop his offense as well. While some of his numbers are no doubt down to the fact that he is physically dominant due to his size and man body, those numbers require some genuine offensive talent, too.

Puhis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:13 PM
  #60
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.

I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.
On the other hand, while the Wild wouldn't give up someone like Graovac for less than a 3rd rounder, I don't think anyone would offer even a third rounder for him. With huge risk (he's a 6'5" almost 20 year old who has never scored until now) and limited upside (ultimately he'd probably at best be a third liner) I think teams would rather take a longer term but higher potential player in the third.

I feel I have to note, I think Graovac is a great prospect to have in the system, and has a real chance to become an NHLer. However, if he'd been a 2nd or 3rd round pick initially, I don't think anyone would be excited about him.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:19 PM
  #61
keppel146
We love Bacon
 
keppel146's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MinneSOta
Country: United States
Posts: 1,327
vCash: 500
wow 18 goals

keppel146 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:20 PM
  #62
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
On the other hand, while the Wild wouldn't give up someone like Graovac for less than a 3rd rounder, I don't think anyone would offer even a third rounder for him. With huge risk (he's a 6'5" almost 20 year old who has never scored until now) and limited upside (ultimately he'd probably at best be a third liner) I think teams would rather take a longer term but higher potential player in the third.

I feel I have to note, I think Graovac is a great prospect to have in the system, and has a real chance to become an NHLer. However, if he'd been a 2nd or 3rd round pick initially, I don't think anyone would be excited about him.
Exactly. He's not proven, so his value is not high, but his upside is high for the Wild, and they have plenty of NHL talent right now.

It's an ideal situation, as they could sign him next year and drop an underachieving player from Houston.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #63
TZM
Par too easy
 
TZM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kerava
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,472
vCash: 500
Has he created chances by himself?

TZM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:52 PM
  #64
Jaykay
Kuemperpedic
 
Jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
However, if he'd been a 2nd or 3rd round pick initially, I don't think anyone would be excited about him.
He's still leading the OHL in goals, I'd be excited about that regardless of where he was drafted.

Jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 12:52 PM
  #65
Puhis
@Puhis46
 
Puhis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Puhis Send a message via Skype™ to Puhis
With that size and the offensive ability, I'd say his absolute upside might even be a middle-six power forward.

Most likely he'll be a bottom-six player if he ever makes it to NHL though.

Puhis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 01:01 PM
  #66
Jaykay
Kuemperpedic
 
Jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
Most likely he'll be a bottom-six player if he ever makes it to NHL though.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Everything I've heard about him is that he's top 6 or bust because he has no grit to his game and is not willing to use his size.

Jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 01:18 PM
  #67
Puhis
@Puhis46
 
Puhis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Puhis Send a message via Skype™ to Puhis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Everything I've heard about him is that he's top 6 or bust because he has no grit to his game and is not willing to use his size.
Really? That's a shame. That being said, if he ever makes it to Houston/Minnesota, he'd be taught to use it, no doubt about it.

Puhis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #68
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
He's still leading the OHL in goals, I'd be excited about that regardless of where he was drafted.
You might be, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to be so excited. Last season's OHL goal scoring leader was Tyler Toffoli who's a decent (former second rounder) prospect for the Kings. But looking further down the scoring list, #2 was Michael Sgarbossa (undrafted, signed by COL), #3 was Seth Griffith (5th rounder, BOS), #5 Tobias Rieder (4th rounder, EDM), #6 Andrew Yogan (4th rounder, NYR), #8 Josh Shalla (4th rounder, NSH), #9 Mike Halmo (undrafted, signed by NYR), #10 Andrew Agozzino (undrafted, signed in AHL).

The only players in the top 10 last season who people might get excited about were Toffoli at #1, Prince at #4, and Rychel at #7 (who is a 2013 draft eligible). Looking at '10-'11 it's the same basic story. A couple of the top 10 guys from that season are in the ECHL or CIS now. The guy who managed to rack up more goals than Jeff Skinner and Tyler Seguin in '09-'10 managed an AHL season but now is in the ECHL for the second consecutive year. The guy who netted more goals in 07-08 than Stamkos is now out of hockey.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #69
Jaykay
Kuemperpedic
 
Jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
You might be, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to be so excited. Last season's OHL goal scoring leader was Tyler Toffoli who's a decent (former second rounder) prospect for the Kings. But looking further down the scoring list, #2 was Michael Sgarbossa (undrafted, signed by COL), #3 was Seth Griffith (5th rounder, BOS), #5 Tobias Rieder (4th rounder, EDM), #6 Andrew Yogan (4th rounder, NYR), #8 Josh Shalla (4th rounder, NSH), #9 Mike Halmo (undrafted, signed by NYR), #10 Andrew Agozzino (undrafted, signed in AHL).

The only players in the top 10 last season who people might get excited about were Toffoli at #1, Prince at #4, and Rychel at #7 (who is a 2013 draft eligible). Looking at '10-'11 it's the same basic story. A couple of the top 10 guys from that season are in the ECHL or CIS now. The guy who managed to rack up more goals than Jeff Skinner and Tyler Seguin in '09-'10 managed an AHL season but now is in the ECHL for the second consecutive year. The guy who netted more goals in 07-08 than Stamkos is now out of hockey.
I'm not saying that because he's leading the league in goal scoring he will make it in the NHL. His performance so far isn't necessarily indicative of future success but it's just about the best he could be doing in his current situation, and I think that's something to be excited about.

Jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 02:49 PM
  #70
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,017
vCash: 500
I want to see Graovac over a full season. But I'll take a kid leading the OHL or close to it than screwing around with 10-15 goals.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 03:56 PM
  #71
firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
 
firstroundbust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: United States
Posts: 5,641
vCash: 500
With an April 27th, 1993 birthdate, that would make him just 19. Not an OA.

firstroundbust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 04:00 PM
  #72
Nsjohnson
Registered User
 
Nsjohnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 1,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
With that size and the offensive ability, I'd say his absolute upside might even be a middle-six power forward.

Most likely he'll be a bottom-six player if he ever makes it to NHL though.
Seeing his size you might think that, but like a few larger NHL players, he relies on good skating, great hands, and a knack for being in the right place with a good shot. He's not very physical.

Nsjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:16 PM
  #73
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 23,906
vCash: 50
i'm guessing this performance is akin to Lucia beasting it up last year...nice and flashy but ultimately doesn't hold a strong correlation to scoring at the professional level.

rynryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:35 PM
  #74
Victorious Secret
Eyebrows Defcon 1
 
Victorious Secret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Arkansas
Country: Ireland
Posts: 12,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
i'm guessing this performance is akin to Lucia beasting it up last year...nice and flashy but ultimately doesn't hold a strong correlation to scoring at the professional level.
I wouldn't put it that way at all. Lucia was on a stacked team. Graovac is making his own chances.

Victorious Secret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:39 PM
  #75
Jaykay
Kuemperpedic
 
Jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
OHL is also a stronger league than the BCHL

Jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.