HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Notices

2012-2013 Prospect Talk PART IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-06-2012, 01:09 PM
  #576
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Hamilton and Couturier were "franchise talents" at one point in their draft year.

Yes, it is a gut feeling but I will stand by it. I am not saying he wont be good but I do think he will not live up to the expectations being put on him.

We will see this summer
Couturier was seen as a franchise talent prior to his draft year, he dropped during his draft year and that label was removed. Hamilton never received that label from scouts at any point during the year.

I would also like to point out that Mathletic's rankings that you reference also have Duclair in the top 10, Bigras, Possler, Buchnevich, Subban, Houck, and Hartman in the first round. Ristolainen, Fucale, Burakovsky, Zadorov, Kujawinski, and Nichushkin in the 2nd, Bo Horvat and Stephen Harper in the 3rd, and many other discrepancies. It's not just Jones that he has ranked low in comparison to actual scouts, his entire list is suspect.

Konk is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:17 PM
  #577
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Couturier was seen as a franchise talent prior to his draft year, he dropped during his draft year and that label was removed. Hamilton never received that label from scouts at any point during the year.

I would also like to point out that Mathletic's rankings that you reference also have Duclair in the top 10, Bigras, Possler, Buchnevich, Subban, Houck, and Hartman in the first round. Ristolainen, Fucale, Burakovsky, Zadorov, Kujawinski, and Nichushkin in the 2nd, Bo Horvat and Stephen Harper in the 3rd, and many other discrepancies. It's not just Jones that he has ranked low in comparison to actual scouts, his entire list is suspect.
I understand all your points. And yes, the rankings are "different" but I am not alone. That was all I was trying to say. I now also have 2 others on this thread that say Barkov would be a good pick at #2. I stand by my point.

I in no way think Jones will be a bust or average player. He will be good. Maybe great. But I dont think he will achieve what is being put on his shoulders right now.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #578
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
I understand all your points. And yes, the rankings are "different" but I am not alone. That was all I was trying to say. I now also have 2 others on this thread that say Barkov would be a good pick at #2. I stand by my point.

I in no way think Jones will be a bust or average player. He will be good. Maybe great. But I dont think he will achieve what is being put on his shoulders right now.
Two others with no real scouting credentials or even attending a game and actually watching him play.

That is my point. Every credible source has him firmly at 1 or 2. There's no questioning that. HF is otherwise full of armchair GMs who believe they know more than the professionals and all they have are some highlights or an online stream to argue from. It's laughable.

Konk is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:54 PM
  #579
NYI78
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Milford CT
Country: United States
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'd be disappointed if he only turned into Adam Foote, considering how stacked this draft looks with offensive talent. The only way I'd be comfortable passing on the likes of MacKinnon, Barkov and Monahan for a defenseman is if I felt that defenseman could turn into the next Pietrangelo/Doughty/OEL. Foote was a solid defenseman who had a long and successful career, but with a 1st or 2nd overall pick your expectations should be a little higher than that.

foote was a cup winning dman who is a border line hall of famer..i'd be perfectly happy with that

NYI78 is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 04:57 PM
  #580
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Two others with no real scouting credentials or even attending a game and actually watching him play.

That is my point. Every credible source has him firmly at 1 or 2. There's no questioning that. HF is otherwise full of armchair GMs who believe they know more than the professionals and all they have are some highlights or an online stream to argue from. It's laughable.
I know. I have only seen 1 to date that has him outside the top 2. And he was at 4. I am not a scout but I have been following prospects and the NHL draft for quite some time now. I do know what I am talking about. Even though it might not seem like it to you.

But let me ask you something, why does he deserve to go ahead of MacKinnon or Jones in your opinion? Not "because the scouts said so". Your opinion.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:05 PM
  #581
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
I know. I have only seen 1 to date that has him outside the top 2. And he was at 4. I am not a scout but I have been following prospects and the NHL draft for quite some time now. I do know what I am talking about. Even though it might not seem like it to you.

But let me ask you something, why does he deserve to go ahead of MacKinnon or Jones in your opinion? Not "because the scouts said so". Your opinion.
I gotta say, I do put more value in the opinion of those who are good enough to actually earn a living scouting vs. fans on message boards, playing armchair scout or armchair gm.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:24 PM
  #582
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I gotta say, I do put more value in the opinion of those who are good enough to actually earn a living scouting vs. fans on message boards, playing armchair scout or armchair gm.
Obviously. But scouts have been wrong before. And at least i can decide whether i like a player or not and not just say "The scouts said he is good so it must be true". Just look at Schenn, daigle, Stefan...

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:49 PM
  #583
PWJunior
Moderator
Beware the POOP!
 
PWJunior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Obviously. But scouts have been wrong before. And at least i can decide whether i like a player or not and not just say "The scouts said he is good so it must be true". Just look at Schenn, daigle, Stefan...
You are more than entitled to offer your opinion, just like everyone else on here. Is that not the purpose of this entire site?

I agree with your premise that scouting is an inexact science, no one is always right.

PWJunior is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 05:57 PM
  #584
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
You are more than entitled to offer your opinion, just like everyone else on here. Is that not the purpose of this entire site?

I agree with your premise that scouting is an inexact science, no one is always right.
Thank you. This is what the site is for. But my opinion is wrong because it is not what the scouts are saying.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #585
Seph
Registered User
 
Seph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oregon
Country: South Korea
Posts: 15,547
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Seph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Thank you. This is what the site is for. But my opinion is wrong because it is not what the scouts are saying.
When you express your opinion on a public forum, it's pretty weak to get upset when others express their opinion of your opinion.

Seph is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #586
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
I know. I have only seen 1 to date that has him outside the top 2. And he was at 4. I am not a scout but I have been following prospects and the NHL draft for quite some time now. I do know what I am talking about. Even though it might not seem like it to you.
You've seen one fan list.

Here are the current, credible scouting sources and their rankings:

Craig Button:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Redline:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/1640975/

ISS:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ings-for-2013/

Bob McKenzie:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9600

All of which have Jones 1st or 2nd. Again, no credible scouts and/or scouting services have reportedly had him outside of their top 2.

Quote:
But let me ask you something, why does he deserve to go ahead of MacKinnon or Jones in your opinion? Not "because the scouts said so". Your opinion.
Who are you talking about?

Konk is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:34 PM
  #587
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Thank you. This is what the site is for. But my opinion is wrong because it is not what the scouts are saying.
When your opinion is so far off of the general consensus and your actual viewings of said prospect is made up of highlights and online streams, yes your opinion is generally less credible.

Scouts can be wrong, but generally their track record is far more accurate than that of HFers.

Konk is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:46 PM
  #588
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
When you express your opinion on a public forum, it's pretty weak to get upset when others express their opinion of your opinion.
I am not upset at all. I just cant believe how much suggesting trading a pick started.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:51 PM
  #589
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
You've seen one fan list.

Here are the current, credible scouting sources and their rankings:

Craig Button:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Redline:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/1640975/

ISS:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ings-for-2013/

Bob McKenzie:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9600

All of which have Jones 1st or 2nd. Again, no credible scouts and/or scouting services have reportedly had him outside of their top 2.


Who are you talking about?
No i have not seen one fan list. I saw an actual scouting report that had Jones at 4. It wasnt a mock draft but based on potential.

And i was talking about jones. I meant why hes better than mackinnon or barkov.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #590
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
When your opinion is so far off of the general consensus and your actual viewings of said prospect is made up of highlights and online streams, yes your opinion is generally less credible.

Scouts can be wrong, but generally their track record is far more accurate than that of HFers.
Online streams are his actual games. Its not at he game but its not far off. And obviously my opinion is not as credible as a scouts opinion. Im not stupid. But i also dont have to be sold on a player because a scout says he will be he next big thing.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #591
Homeland Security
Mod Supervisor
#beLIeve
 
Homeland Security's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY/FL
Country: United States
Posts: 14,266
vCash: 500
Let's move it along, please.

__________________
Homeland Security is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 08:07 PM
  #592
LeHabsMan
Registered User
 
LeHabsMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Laval
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,744
vCash: 500
Alright Konk how about we just end it here by saying you side with the scouts and i am against them on Jones.

We will see who is right in 5-10 years.

LeHabsMan is offline  
Old
11-06-2012, 09:21 PM
  #593
luki here
Registered User
 
luki here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,266
vCash: 500
anyone already seen the highlights from the two highscoring ice dog games?

i wasnt able to find a link...

luki here is online now  
Old
11-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #594
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,148
vCash: 500
Tuesday

Spokane 4, Everett 0-Kichton, 1 assist.
Edmonton 2, Kamloops 1-Reinhart, +1.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
11-07-2012, 05:58 AM
  #595
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,148
vCash: 500
Tonight on NHL Network, 7PM
Game 2-Russia, vs QMJHL, Subway Super Series.

Thursday on NHL Network, 7 PM
Game 1-Russia vs OHL, Subway Super Series.

Friday on NHL Network, 7 PM, QMJHL
Halifax (McKinnon, Drouin) vs Gatineau.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
11-07-2012, 10:02 AM
  #596
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Tonight on NHL Network, 7PM
Game 2-Russia, vs QMJHL, Subway Super Series.

Thursday on NHL Network, 7 PM
Game 1-Russia vs OHL, Subway Super Series.

Friday on NHL Network, 7 PM, QMJHL
Halifax (McKinnon, Drouin) vs Gatineau.
Looking forward to watching MacKinnon again, that guy's going to be a star goal scorer in this league, would be absolutely deadly playing with Tavares.

The Russian team looks amazing, far and away better than the team from the Q.

Yakupov is the best player on the ice and it's not close. Grigorenko, Zlobin play with incredible speed and skill. I can't believe Zlobin went so late in the draft after the great season and memorial cup, to the Pens of all teams.

redbull is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 12:26 PM
  #597
kuwo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SVK
Posts: 481
vCash: 500
Joensuu and Petrov are playing against each other in the Finland vs Russia game right now (EHT Karjala Cup) and Jesse just assisted on the equalising goal (1-1 so far)...

Edit : Final result 2-1 SO win for Finland. Joensuu wasn't credited with the assist, however it looked to me that he should have been. Didn't notice Petrov very much, just in the OT he crushed a Finland defender on the forecheck and the impact of the hit damaged glass behind the net.


Last edited by kuwo: 11-07-2012 at 12:59 PM.
kuwo is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:14 PM
  #598
StumpNYI
Registered User
 
StumpNYI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,679
vCash: 500
Funny tweet from Kabby and pic of his wrist. looks like a nasty cut.

Kirill Kabanov ‏@kabby77
Pretty sure my surgent was a zorro.. #welldone #feelgood pic.twitter.com/dUJclLha


StumpNYI is offline  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:17 PM
  #599
Degeneration Rex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Looking forward to watching MacKinnon again, that guy's going to be a star goal scorer in this league, would be absolutely deadly playing with Tavares.

The Russian team looks amazing, far and away better than the team from the Q.

Yakupov is the best player on the ice and it's not close. Grigorenko, Zlobin play with incredible speed and skill. I can't believe Zlobin went so late in the draft after the great season and memorial cup, to the Pens of all teams.
Can't believe that no one took Zlobin at least in the 4th round.

Degeneration Rex is online now  
Old
11-07-2012, 01:47 PM
  #600
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Can't believe that no one took Zlobin at least in the 4th round.
I thought the Pens drafted him late.

CREW99AW is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.