Only reason I never bring up JVR is I doubt Burke wants to move him. If we can do this, I'm all for it. Put whatever protection you want on that first.
This is really interesting, essentially for Leaf fans, that equates to Schenn and a protected 1st for Schnieder and Schroeder.....not sure what to say because i think we won with JVR in a landslide.
Well, I wouldn't. If we're trading both Schneider and Schroeder, I'd want Gardiner+1st++
Yeah, Schneider isn't worth that and Schroeder has little value outside this organization. Getting JVR would be filling one of the few holes we have and a first is always excellent. At most you could try to pull a center, probably Connolly, into the equitation but that is about it.
Come on. If Schneider goes to the Leafs I'd expect Kessel back for one. And if it's detroit giving up a player try Zetterberg
Then ready yourself for disappointment now.
Kessel is far more valuable than Schneider and Zetterberg has absolutely no business in this discussion. You bring in a player of his caliber and we're adding to Edler by the ton. Much as I hate the rhetoric from the main board. There is some truth to claims Schneider wouldn't bring back a king's ransom. While his return would be excellent, otherwise he stays. We have to be realistic. Zetterberg is not realistic.
Ah, but there is a method to my madness. If we could pry a top end prospect like Gardiner or Rielly from Toronto. We could flip them to another team, who can address our needs. One such example would be Bobby Ryan or one of Anaheim's big two if they cannot resign both. Hell, perhaps Edmonton would be enticed to move Yakupov. Yes, we would have to add but, there will be many more teams willing to deal for a high ceiling defenseman in comparison to a goaltender.
Oh, very good. I like it. The players are simply 'pawns' in the hands of a good GM (fan). I think I need some spicy sauce on that fresh meat.
Lu, Ballard (Detroit has a history with turning around that careers of older players + beggars can't be choosers), Raymond
for
Franzen, Howard
They take on cap, so they get an extra player. Trading Lu for a player with a similar contract makes a ton of sense.
Howard
for
Bozak, Blacker
Toronto gets a goalie with some experience without giving up a ton of youth. We get someone to compete for the 3rd line centre spot and some much needed RHD depth on the farm.
Be gentle.
Sedin/Sedin/Burrows or Franzen
Higgins/Kesler/Franzen or Burrows
Booth/Schroeder or Bozak/Hansen
Manny/Lapierre/Kassian
Ebbett/Weise
We'd need a 6th defensemen but it would open up some cap room.
Lu, Ballard (Detroit has a history with turning around that careers of older players + beggars can't be choosers), Raymond
for
Franzen, Howard
They take on cap, so they get an extra player. Trading Lu for a player with a similar contract makes a ton of sense.
Howard
for
Bozak, Blacker
Toronto gets a goalie with some experience without giving up a ton of youth. We get someone to compete for the 3rd line centre spot and some much needed RHD depth on the farm.
Be gentle.
Detroit would want an established dman coming back if they traded Franzen. The difference between Howard and Luongo is smaller than Franzen and Ballard. A 3-way with Gunnarsson going to Detroit might make them more inclined. I once put an idea up like this:
Lu, Ballard (Detroit has a history with turning around that careers of older players + beggars can't be choosers), Raymond
for
Franzen, Howard
They take on cap, so they get an extra player. Trading Lu for a player with a similar contract makes a ton of sense.
Howard
for
Bozak, Blacker
Toronto gets a goalie with some experience without giving up a ton of youth. We get someone to compete for the 3rd line centre spot and some much needed RHD depth on the farm.
Be gentle.
Sedin/Sedin/Burrows or Franzen
Higgins/Kesler/Franzen or Burrows
Booth/Schroeder or Bozak/Hansen
Manny/Lapierre/Kassian
Ebbett/Weise
We'd need a 6th defensemen but it would open up some cap room.
Detroit says no. Nothing they get back makes up for the loss of Franzen, while the upgrade in net simply is not worth it. The only way they both Franzen is if a top defenseman; prospect or otherwise, is involved somehow.
Detroit would want an established dman coming back if they traded Franzen. The difference between Howard and Luongo is smaller than Franzen and Ballard. A 3-way with Gunnarsson going to Detroit might make them more inclined. I once put an idea up like this:
To Vancouver: Franzen, Det 1st
To Toronto: Howard
To Detroit: Macarthur, Gunnarsson, Luongo
No way we should be getting Franzen and a 1st for Lu.
I also feel like Franzen + Howard for Lu, Ballard, Raymond is a much better deal for them than including their 1st to get Macarthur and Gunnar. I guess it depends how you feel about those players. Ballard and Raymond aren't prefect but they suit a possession style game.
Detroit says no. Nothing they get back makes up for the loss of Franzen, while the upgrade in net simply is not worth it. The only way they both Franzen is if a top defenseman; prospect or otherwise, is involved somehow.
If Detroit doesn't make some kind of move, they're going to be old and terrible imo. They don't have the kind of team that can control shot differential every game and win with marginal goaltending anymore. I'm not a big Howard fan, I'm not sure they are either.
No way we should be getting Franzen and a 1st for Lu.
I also feel like Franzen + Howard for Lu, Ballard, Raymond is a much better deal for them than including their 1st to get Macarthur and Gunnar. I guess it depends how you feel about those players. Ballard and Raymond aren't prefect but they suit a possession style game.
No way we should be getting Franzen and a 1st for Lu.
I also feel like Franzen + Howard for Lu, Ballard, Raymond is a much better deal for them than including their 1st to get Macarthur and Gunnar. I guess it depends how you feel about those players. Ballard and Raymond aren't prefect but they suit a possession style game.
Why are Canuck fans always trading away Raymond and Ballard? Raymond is a 20 min/game top six forward who is responsible defensively and kills penalties. Ballard is a #3/4 defense-man who can play top two pairing when needed. They each fill important roles on the Canucks. They are not so easily replaced.
Big, consistent scorer in the regular season and playoffs... I think you're really underestimating the Mule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives
Why are Canuck fans always trading away Raymond and Ballard? Raymond is a 20 min/game top six forward who is responsible defensively and kills penalties. Ballard is a #3/4 defense-man who can play top two pairing when needed. They each fill important roles on the Canucks. They are not so easily replaced.
I agree with you, I'm not trying to dump them. I think Detroit sees the value in them where other teams may not and you have to give to get.
Big, consistent scorer in the regular season and playoffs... I think you're really underestimating the Mule.
I agree with you, I'm not trying to dump them. I think Detroit sees the value in them where other teams may not and you have to give to get.
I see. Detroit being a smart and successful franchise tries to acquire players like these. Whereas other franchises (not mentioning any names, but we all know which one specifically) does not see these types of players as valuable. I like your thinking that Raymond and Ballard have good value in trade as assets.
You certainly do enjoy pushing buttons. I must strongly disagree with your sentiment.
The difference in improvement to the team is the issue. Clearly the Canucks are forward rich. In the last 3 seasons they have Two Art Ross, One Heart, and One Selke winner in their top six. Hence, forward rich. The defense, on the other hand, lacks top end talent. Therefore, adding another top forward makes less improvement to the team than adding the #1 defense-man.
We have absolutely zero influence over what the Canucks will do, but it is an enjoyable debate all the same.
You certainly do enjoy pushing buttons. I must strongly disagree with your sentiment.
The difference in improvement to the team is the issue. Clearly the Canucks are forward rich. In the last 3 seasons they have Two Art Ross, One Heart, and One Selke winner in their top six. Hence, forward rich. The defense, on the other hand, lacks top end talent. Therefore, adding another top forward makes less improvement to the team than adding the #1 defense-man.
We have absolutely zero influence over what the Canucks will do, but it is an enjoyable debate all the same.
The Canucks playoff problems have stemmed from a lack of scoring. I don't see how listing a few regular season accomplishments changes that.
We have several defensemen who could be considered number 1s (top 30 in the league), but none of whom I would consider franchise defensemen (top 5-10).
If Detroit doesn't make some kind of move, they're going to be old and terrible imo. They don't have the kind of team that can control shot differential every game and win with marginal goaltending anymore. I'm not a big Howard fan, I'm not sure they are either.
While true, I get the feeling they are willing to ride the sails, so to speak. Their prospect pool is relatively solid and most fans seem content with Howard. Personally, I see him good but not consistently chart topping by any means. Besides, acquiring Lu ages them in net. Not to mention Detroit never buys high on goalies.
Why are Canuck fans always trading away Raymond and Ballard? Raymond is a 20 min/game top six forward who is responsible defensively and kills penalties. Ballard is a #3/4 defense-man who can play top two pairing when needed. They each fill important roles on the Canucks. They are not so easily replaced.
I include them in some prospects because they are expandable. Raymond is admittedly a throw given his horrendous season but Ballard could pick a second from a desperate team. Alas, that description does not fit Detroit now. Perhaps, at the deadline however no one is going to pay much for either of them.
You certainly do enjoy pushing buttons. I must strongly disagree with your sentiment.
The difference in improvement to the team is the issue. Clearly the Canucks are forward rich. In the last 3 seasons they have Two Art Ross, One Heart, and One Selke winner in their top six. Hence, forward rich. The defense, on the other hand, lacks top end talent. Therefore, adding another top forward makes less improvement to the team than adding the #1 defense-man.
We have absolutely zero influence over what the Canucks will do, but it is an enjoyable debate all the same.
The Canucks would be significantly better with a top 6 forward rather than a top 4 defenseman. Trophies aside, the Canucks most glaring weakness is a suitable top 6 forward to play with Kesler and Booth. this player would improve the team more than any other position.
Come on. If Schneider goes to the Leafs I'd expect Kessel back for one. And if it's detroit giving up a player try Zetterberg
