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Old
11-07-2012, 04:16 PM
  #76
ponokanocker
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Our biggest need last season, and will likely be again this season, is a top pairing D-man. Smid-Petry did okay, but belong in a second pairing role. Whitney keeps getting hurt, and didn't look great after coming back last time(still looked hurt). Schultz was solid, but looked more like a guy who should be getting around 18 minutes/game, not 22+. The new Schultz will not be good enough to log 22+ minutes/game this season. After that, things get pretty thin, which is why a top pairing D-man is even more the #1 need. A top pairing guy will mean we see less of Peckham, Sutton, Potter, Teubert, and Plante.

Long term, it appears that we may be set on the blueline with some of our prospects. But they are only prospects at this point, and they could all bust. Until they are even ready for the NHL, this team will continue to struggle on the blueline. While a blueline like Vancouver(no true #1) could work, we are no where close to that.

Just one bad D-man on the team makes everything really tough. When we had to play with so many every game last year, we sucked.

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11-07-2012, 04:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
Our biggest need last season, and will likely be again this season, is a top pairing D-man. Smid-Petry did okay, but belong in a second pairing role. Whitney keeps getting hurt, and didn't look great after coming back last time(still looked hurt). Schultz was solid, but looked more like a guy who should be getting around 18 minutes/game, not 22+. The new Schultz will not be good enough to log 22+ minutes/game this season. After that, things get pretty thin, which is why a top pairing D-man is even more the #1 need. A top pairing guy will mean we see less of Peckham, Sutton, Potter, Teubert, and Plante.

Long term, it appears that we may be set on the blueline with some of our prospects. But they are only prospects at this point, and they could all bust. Until they are even ready for the NHL, this team will continue to struggle on the blueline. While a blueline like Vancouver(no true #1) could work, we are no where close to that.

Just one bad D-man on the team makes everything really tough. When we had to play with so many every game last year, we sucked.
Gardiner averaged 21:35 last year with 1:45 SH and 1:58 on the PP. I see absolutely no reason why Schultz won't be getting that much ice when he will likely be playing more on the PP and probably similar totals on the PK.

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11-07-2012, 04:22 PM
  #78
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Your first and second points contradict each other. RNH is a #1C we don't need to wait for him to grow into that.

Why acquire a top level #1C and then trade for a prospect who struggled to survive in the NHL last season in Gudbranson who probably will top out as a #2-3 guy.

Your third point doesn't make sense either. Holtby is less proven than Dubnyk IMO. And his top potential is very questionable.
Hopkins is a first line center here because we've finished last 3 yrs running. Put him in the Bruins lineup, where would he be? He's a first line center here because there's no competition at that position. He needs a few yrs before we start comparing him to a Joe Sakic type.

Dubnyk, blah, he couldn't even stop the puck with regularity when it didn't matter. How is it going to be any different when the Oilers are expected to win?

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11-07-2012, 04:29 PM
  #79
ponokanocker
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Gardiner averaged 21:35 last year with 1:45 SH and 1:58 on the PP. I see absolutely no reason why Schultz won't be getting that much ice when he will likely be playing more on the PP and probably similar totals on the PK.
He'll likely get that much time, but will be making a lot of rookie mistakes, like Gardiner did, which will hurt the team. On a good team, he and Gardiner should be playing under 20 minutes/game in their rookie season.

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11-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #80
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In my opinion, the biggest need this team has is dropping the deadweight. Guys like Potter and Peckham shouldn't see a minute of ice time at the NHL level. And if/when Smyth, Whitney, Eager, etc. dip to a level of uselessness again, they should be treated the same way.

Other than that, I would say our needs are:

- a #2C with size/grit
- a top6 winger with size/grit
- a #3/4D with size/grit/skating/some puck skills
- a consistent veteran #6/7D

Obviously a #1/2D is a big need, but I think the above things are some other more realistic targets that would improve the team significantly.

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11-07-2012, 04:55 PM
  #81
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I am a broken record but we need Joohnny Boychuk. That is all. That is the most pressing need.

Seeing more and more proof from OKC that we dont have a PK/Shutdown RHD man in the system.

Johnny Boychuk from the Bruins is what we need. A guy that fits the role we need and can play above it when injuries occur.

Likely it would have to be a 3 way trade since BOS wouldnt let him go unless his hole could be filled by an acquisition. Boston is very interested in a couple Dmen out there so if a 3 way can work out... Boychuk would secure our defence now and into the future.

Some other points - Harti has now taken over Magnus in terms of forward depth. He has a better shot, surprisingly better NHL offensive potential, less play making vision but far better in retrieving and opening space for RNH - Eberle -J Schultz. At 6' 212 lbs he can go straight from the corner, run down 2 defensemen and put the puck to the net. He keeps defenses honest in this fashion which means defenses cant double team on the swift footed eberle or sneaky RNH.
Harti is a point a game right now and good defensive game comparable to Magnus who was actually a defenseman for a big part of his youth hockey.

Hemsky is looking very good over seas and is really, despite that i have never been a big fan, our only top 6 Veteran.

Yak Hall Hemsky
Harti RNH Eberle
Smyth Horcoff Gagner
Jones Belanger Eager

Smid Petry
Whitney Boychuk
NSchultz J Schultz
Sutton

PP Dmen - J Schultz and Whitney (as per coach saying 4fs 1d)
PK Dmen - Smid - Boychuk, N Schultz - Petry
Shutdown pair in last stands - Smid -Boychuk

much better
eliminates - Peckham (once Klefbom arrives in the NHL 2 years from now he is gone anyways, Marincin needs a couple of years too), Potter, Sutton looks like he might have a injury that will cost him his possibly last good season (i like sutton).

I like Magnus , and think he should have been used as a pivot last season in the AHL, but HArti is going to get a long look as a top 6 option thanks to te game he brings and responsible 2 way play. His size and strength (not always one and the same) are needed and he has shown the hockey IQ of testing goalies and defenses when needed in order to remind them to stay honest or learn he can score the hard way. If he gets light treatment on the boards he will mow the defender over and drive the net often crashing the goalie. you better keep tabs on him if you dont want him doing that and that means space for RNH and Ebs.

I have seen a couple games of Hall centring at times, doesnt look like much of a detriment especially if Hemsky is on the ice with him. Hall plays a wingers N/S game but Hemmer definitely plays a Pivots game. It might work well. Yaks release and speed with Hemmer on the oposite wing.


Last edited by oilinblood: 11-07-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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11-07-2012, 04:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Moneypuck View Post
Hopkins is a first line center here because we've finished last 3 yrs running. Put him in the Bruins lineup, where would he be? He's a first line center here because there's no competition at that position. He needs a few yrs before we start comparing him to a Joe Sakic type.

Dubnyk, blah, he couldn't even stop the puck with regularity when it didn't matter. How is it going to be any different when the Oilers are expected to win?
You don't need competition to be a #1 center, what a ridiculous concept. That's like saying Tavares or Toews are only #1s for the same reason.
Just watching RNH last season, as well as his statline, it's quite clear he's a #1C. He would have gone to the all-star game had he not been injured.

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11-07-2012, 05:01 PM
  #83
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An upgrade on the blueline.

Dubnyk is fine. He just needs support. No he's not a superstar goalie, but you don't need a star goalie to get into the playoffs, you need one to win the Stanley Cup Finals.

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11-07-2012, 05:04 PM
  #84
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11-07-2012, 05:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
An upgrade on the blueline.

Dubnyk is fine. He just needs support. No he's not a superstar goalie, but you don't need a star goalie to get into the playoffs, you need one to win the Stanley Cup Finals.
I don't understand, you want to make the playoffs, but you dont want to win the Finals?

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11-07-2012, 05:16 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Gardiner averaged 21:35 last year with 1:45 SH and 1:58 on the PP. I see absolutely no reason why Schultz won't be getting that much ice when he will likely be playing more on the PP and probably similar totals on the PK.
id like his focus to be kept to PP and 5 on 5. No knock on Justin; but if he is on the PK the Oilers management dont have the right players for the right roles.

In my mind you make a team to have the depth to go 100 games in about 8 months. That means having the right guys for the right roles. The best teams have the proper guys getting proper ice time. the oilers have injiry problems because we have half a team that we try to have do too many things.

J Schultz focus on PP and 5 on 5. get pk men to do the pk.

Lets stop thinking like a bottom 10 team where we take one of the only good dmen and work him into early injury issues which will destroy his career. we should have ability to form a complete enough team to actually play like a hockey team with specific players for specific roles.

its the difference between a real team and a joke.

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11-07-2012, 07:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Moneypuck View Post
Hopkins is a first line center here because we've finished last 3 yrs running. Put him in the Bruins lineup, where would he be? He's a first line center here because there's no competition at that position. He needs a few yrs before we start comparing him to a Joe Sakic type.

Dubnyk, blah, he couldn't even stop the puck with regularity when it didn't matter. How is it going to be any different when the Oilers are expected to win?
Hopkins would be a #1 C on at least half the teams in the league.

Might want to check Dubnyks stats for the 2nd half of the season. Playing behind a very depleted line up he put up very good numbers. Those games did matter a lot, to the others teams attacking players. Saying that the games didn't matter is a rediculus statement when talking about a goalie. It was obvious that a lot of the Oilers skaters had packed it in early last year and they called guys up from OKC making Dubnyks stats even more impressive. He finished only 0,05 behind the great Robeto Loluongo that so many oil fans now want to trade for. How badly would he have looked getting no help from the joke of a roster Renney was putting on the ice to end the season.

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11-07-2012, 07:45 PM
  #88
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You really couldn't be any more wrong here.

The value of the experience he is gaining right now, while the team is bad anyway, is immeasurable.
We need a number 1 center. A guy that actually can win faceoffs, and put up points.

Nuge is a great player and a future number 1. However at this age he shouldn't be our number 1, but sadly he is.

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11-07-2012, 07:49 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
We need a number 1 center. A guy that actually can win faceoffs, and put up points.

Nuge is a great player and a future number 1. However at this age he shouldn't be our number 1, but sadly he is.
All he needs to learn is faceoffs and he's a pretty damn good 1st line C regardless of his age.

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11-07-2012, 08:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Moneypuck View Post
Hopkins is a first line center here because we've finished last 3 yrs running. Put him in the Bruins lineup, where would he be? He's a first line center here because there's no competition at that position. He needs a few yrs before we start comparing him to a Joe Sakic type.

Dubnyk, blah, he couldn't even stop the puck with regularity when it didn't matter. How is it going to be any different when the Oilers are expected to win?
RNH has already proven to be a 1C, just because he is young does not mean that he is not a 1C. He has proven it already. Yes, if he was in BOS they would not start him as the 1C but he has more offensive skill then any of the centreman that BOS has and they have some really good centremen.

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11-07-2012, 08:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
He'll likely get that much time, but will be making a lot of rookie mistakes, like Gardiner did, which will hurt the team. On a good team, he and Gardiner should be playing under 20 minutes/game in their rookie season.
Well this isn't a good team yet so it doesn't much matter what they'd do on a good team. In a year or two they'd be top 4 on a good team, hell they may be that good to fill that role right now on a good team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
id like his focus to be kept to PP and 5 on 5. No knock on Justin; but if he is on the PK the Oilers management dont have the right players for the right roles.

In my mind you make a team to have the depth to go 100 games in about 8 months. That means having the right guys for the right roles. The best teams have the proper guys getting proper ice time. the oilers have injiry problems because we have half a team that we try to have do too many things.

J Schultz focus on PP and 5 on 5. get pk men to do the pk.

Lets stop thinking like a bottom 10 team where we take one of the only good dmen and work him into early injury issues which will destroy his career. we should have ability to form a complete enough team to actually play like a hockey team with specific players for specific roles.

its the difference between a real team and a joke.
I fail to see how playing on the PK will "destroy his career due to injuries", but I'm more than fine with your idea of having him play almost exclusively at ES and on the PP where he can best utilize his offensive abilities.

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11-07-2012, 08:34 PM
  #92
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I see our biggest need is a 2C with some size. If RNH was bigger I would be happy with Gagner but he is not.

I see our defense as having 6 dmen that are all legit top 4 dmen in the upper range. If your 3rd pairing are top a4 dmen then that is depth that will help you in the playoffs. If in 2-3 seasons our top 6 dmen are Schultz, Klefbom, Smid, Petry, Musil, and Marincin I think that we will be ok. There are some pretty big boys on that team with a lot of skill.
Schultz, Klefbom
Smid, Petry
Musil, Marincin
Tuebert

That is a solid core of dmen from 1-6.

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11-07-2012, 11:08 PM
  #93
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Well this isn't a good team yet so it doesn't much matter what they'd do on a good team. In a year or two they'd be top 4 on a good team, hell they may be that good to fill that role right now on a good team.



I fail to see how playing on the PK will "destroy his career due to injuries", but I'm more than fine with your idea of having him play almost exclusively at ES and on the PP where he can best utilize his offensive abilities.
its about mileage and J Schultz himself agrees, as proven by his TSN interview. However i would rather J Schultz go as full out on his shifts as he believes he can, rather than holding back, and cut down on his responisbilities rather than give him numerous responsibilities and have him try to self-manage effort to the point he isnt the player he is.

from Justin Schultz own mouth in a new interview on TSN just entered an hour ago.

Its just hockey intelligence. A healthy roster should show people that specialize. If injuries happen and players have to multi-task than so be it. A GM's job is to first determine if they are going to be winners or jokes, if its winners have your team built as one.

If we are going to win, J Schultz will not have to worry about PK or shutdown draws. He will be used to the optimum of his skill and be put in a position where he can go full out over 100 games and not feel risk of burning out.

Thats team building and team management. I know in edmonton we arent used to seeing a full team of guys who can actually specialize in anything but sucking but here we have the talent now. No longer do we have just 3 or 4 guys that can perform their roles at a top level. I would say we are 1 Boychuk away from a very balanced attack and defence.

If we want to succeed we need 3 strong pairings with everyone knowing what they clearly bring to the coaches arsenal. In the same way that J Schultz isnt bad at PK, Boychuk isnt bad with his booming shot on the PP. Its about giving guys their roles, managing ice time, and keeping players the most effective and highest probability of their and our success for every MILLI-SECOND they re on the ice.

And yes i think most hockey players will agree and dodctors, trainer and coaches would all agree that over taxing a talented athlete is something one would not do for obvious reasons including injury.

BTW i think the line-up i had was pretty FN BAD A**. Boychuk isnt the homerun, he isnt an allstar, he is simply the player that fills the most obvious need. his skills are specific to what is lacking and making our goaltending look shoddy, making our forwards have to stay hemmed in defensive posture too long. he can play more minutes if needed, he can pp, he can make solid outlets. Those bonuses dont matter until injuries happen. when healthy he is a 20 minute guy to be used when his specific skills are most called for. This is how real teams are run and made. The randy Greggs, the charlie Huddys, Craig Munis. There is no need to grab some high priced Dman. Boychuk has one a cup and i watch a tonne of B's games and i know he can bring a 25-28 minute all roles game. i just want him for 18-20 solid shutdown minutes, punishing teams, moving pucks out fast, and letting our forwards put on less miles in the d zone.


Last edited by oilinblood: 11-07-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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11-07-2012, 11:14 PM
  #94
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First and foremost a top pairing D. Doesnt need to be Weber, someone like Vlasic

Then it depends on Dubnyks/Gagners play next year.

Id rank it

Top pairing defensive d men
#2 center with size or good defensively (Peverly, Krecji, ROR)
#1 goalie if Dubynk falters

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11-08-2012, 12:04 AM
  #95
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We need 3 things in whatever order you prefer, a goalie, 2nd line gritty center that can win draws, and an all star d man. IMO the goalie is the most important because I have no faith in Dubnyk. Next would be the D man then the 2nd line center. We get all 3 we should win multiple cups, but were a long ways away right now.

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11-08-2012, 01:28 AM
  #96
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Just throwing in my two cents.

Edmonton has a solid offensive foundation similar to that of Philly(only philly is obviously way further in development.)

Edmonton is young, meaning rookie mistakes and alot of prospects, which means playoff chances are slim for probably another year or two.

top line of Hall-RNH-Eberle is great, mix of size and skill.

everything else needs work, Yakupov is great in the skill department, but he is not defensively that great, is quite small along with the rest of the lineup for the most part.

a lineup of say Hemsky-Gagner(5'11)-Yakupov(5'10) is a defensive nightmare and would get killed by a bigger lineup.

Not to mention bottom 6 depth but that is quite easy to attain, definitely need more size throughout.

Then comes the defense. You got schultz, who is a solid complementary top 4 d-man. I'd even give him potential to be that great #2 D-man. But he is no #1, you definitely need that hybrid #1(Weber, Suter, Phaneuf, Doughty, Pronger etc. types) that can hit and score. More defense is definitely needed throughout.

Goaltending is also an obvious toss-up, but due to the youth of the team, it can wait.

so needs are:

-#2 C with actual size or at least more skill.
-More size/toughness in the top 6, i.e a 2nd line power-forward type.
-A #1 D-man.
- Another top 4 d-man
-Potentially goaltending.

I would say Edmonton is a ways away from competing for a playoff spot right now, however you add say 2 top 4 d-men without anything else and I'd say you'd start competing for one.

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11-08-2012, 02:40 AM
  #97
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its about mileage and J Schultz himself agrees, as proven by his TSN interview. However i would rather J Schultz go as full out on his shifts as he believes he can, rather than holding back, and cut down on his responisbilities rather than give him numerous responsibilities and have him try to self-manage effort to the point he isnt the player he is.

from Justin Schultz own mouth in a new interview on TSN just entered an hour ago.

Its just hockey intelligence. A healthy roster should show people that specialize. If injuries happen and players have to multi-task than so be it. A GM's job is to first determine if they are going to be winners or jokes, if its winners have your team built as one.

If we are going to win, J Schultz will not have to worry about PK or shutdown draws. He will be used to the optimum of his skill and be put in a position where he can go full out over 100 games and not feel risk of burning out.

Thats team building and team management. I know in edmonton we arent used to seeing a full team of guys who can actually specialize in anything but sucking but here we have the talent now. No longer do we have just 3 or 4 guys that can perform their roles at a top level. I would say we are 1 Boychuk away from a very balanced attack and defence.

If we want to succeed we need 3 strong pairings with everyone knowing what they clearly bring to the coaches arsenal. In the same way that J Schultz isnt bad at PK, Boychuk isnt bad with his booming shot on the PP. Its about giving guys their roles, managing ice time, and keeping players the most effective and highest probability of their and our success for every MILLI-SECOND they re on the ice.

And yes i think most hockey players will agree and dodctors, trainer and coaches would all agree that over taxing a talented athlete is something one would not do for obvious reasons including injury.

BTW i think the line-up i had was pretty FN BAD A**. Boychuk isnt the homerun, he isnt an allstar, he is simply the player that fills the most obvious need. his skills are specific to what is lacking and making our goaltending look shoddy, making our forwards have to stay hemmed in defensive posture too long. he can play more minutes if needed, he can pp, he can make solid outlets. Those bonuses dont matter until injuries happen. when healthy he is a 20 minute guy to be used when his specific skills are most called for. This is how real teams are run and made. The randy Greggs, the charlie Huddys, Craig Munis. There is no need to grab some high priced Dman. Boychuk has one a cup and i watch a tonne of B's games and i know he can bring a 25-28 minute all roles game. i just want him for 18-20 solid shutdown minutes, punishing teams, moving pucks out fast, and letting our forwards put on less miles in the d zone.
I would be fine with adding a Boychuk, however is he available? As for your other points re: Schultz on the PK, I fail to see how 2-3 PK shifts a game will get him hurt, I'm looking at playing him mostly on the PP and at ES like you are, but I don't see anyone advocating playing him 30 minutes a night and wearing him down to that extent. I fully understand players having specific roles and I agree with your ideology there, my main point is that IMO you are overreacting a bit to the effect 2-3 PK shifts a game might have on him. He will inevitably play some there because of injuries or penalties, it won't be the end of the world. However if he's our top PK defenseman then we have a problem in more ways that one. Also I'm not a fan of your 3rd line above, if Hall move to C then Gagner should be dealt and we should be playing someone with more size on that line.

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11-08-2012, 11:01 AM
  #98
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A new play-by-play man.

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11-08-2012, 11:36 AM
  #99
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A new play-by-play man.
I wonder if Rod Phillips could come out of retirement.

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11-09-2012, 12:14 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I would be fine with adding a Boychuk, however is he available? As for your other points re: Schultz on the PK, I fail to see how 2-3 PK shifts a game will get him hurt, I'm looking at playing him mostly on the PP and at ES like you are, but I don't see anyone advocating playing him 30 minutes a night and wearing him down to that extent. I fully understand players having specific roles and I agree with your ideology there, my main point is that IMO you are overreacting a bit to the effect 2-3 PK shifts a game might have on him. He will inevitably play some there because of injuries or penalties, it won't be the end of the world. However if he's our top PK defenseman then we have a problem in more ways that one. Also I'm not a fan of your 3rd line above, if Hall move to C then Gagner should be dealt and we should be playing someone with more size on that line.
I agree on most. I think we agree that if we are counting on a guy to be both our PP specialist, #1 OD and yet we are going to use him as a key cog in heavier defensive zone starts and PKs ... we arent built to be a good team.
I am really torn on where Gags fits. Last year i would have sent hemsky packing and avoided this but... here we are. Gags and Magnus are looking like the odd guys out. I have been up and down with Gags, and Magnus i believe is going to turn into a solid player, from watching the OKC playoff run.

pieces to a deal perhaps.

As for Boychuks availibility; the defenseman has a really convoluted NTC. Starting in February he has to give the Bs a list of 8 teams he would accept trade to. on july 1st it becomes a 15 team list for the remainder of the contract. I like to believe he would be willing to come. If we can find another RHD who has the same skill set i will be just as pleased but i have watched alot of Boychuk in particular and he is what we need with no training or learning curve involved.

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