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European Goalies

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Old
11-06-2012, 09:45 AM
  #1
Canadiens1958
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European Goalies

The Journal de Montreal is running a series of articles about goaltending, mainly in Quebec but touching other regions and countries as well. Francois Allaire offered some interesting comments about Swedish goaltending over the course of 20+ years. Original excerpt in French with translation:

__________________________________________________ ______
«Lors de mon premier séjour en Suède, chaque fois que j’essayais d’enseigner une technique, l’entraîneur des gardiens de l'équipe nationale me disait: “Non, non. Ça ne se peut pas. On ne fait pas ça, ici.” J’ai vu là des choses totalement dépassées», se souvient Allaire, propriétaire d’une école de hockey pour gardiens dans ce pays depuis une vingtaine d’années.

En contrepartie, l’ancien entraîneur des gardiens du Canadien, des Mighty Ducks et des Maple Leafs se souvient que l’entraînement des *Suédois était énormément axé sur les habiletés physiques.

« Le fait de mettre l’accent sur leur condition physique en faisait des *gardiens très athlétiques.
__________________________________________________ ______

Translation

During my first visit to Sweden, whenever I tried to teach a technique, the national team coach would tell me "No, no, that is not possible, we do not do that here." I saw many things that were outdated, recalls Allaire owner of a hockey school for over 20 years.

On the other hand, the former goaltending coach of the Canadiens, Mighty Ducks and Leafs recalls that the Swedish practices were heavily concentrated on physical conditioning.

This emphasis on physical conditioning produced some very athletic goaltenders.
__________________________________________________ ______

Link to the complete article:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...aper-le-retard

Comments

Recently the Swedish goaltenders - Lundqvist, etc have shown that the ideas of Francois Allaire did make an impact in Sweden.

However the Swedish and other European goaltenders still lag in terms of puckhandling and communications with teammates.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 11-06-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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11-06-2012, 10:00 AM
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Doctor No
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I'm still having trouble with the link, but I'm looking forward to checking this one out.

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11-06-2012, 10:05 AM
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Checked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm still having trouble with the link, but I'm looking forward to checking this one out.
Just checked and it worked. Perhaps access is by region.

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11-06-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
However the Swedish and other European goaltenders still lag in terms of puckhandling and communications with teammates.
Because that really is an issue with finnish goaltenders

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11-06-2012, 10:20 AM
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Doctor No
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Just checked and it worked. Perhaps access is by region.
It works now! Now I've just got to deal with not knowing French.

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11-06-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
It works now! Now I've just got to deal with not knowing French.
Use bing or google translate. I promise it will work...

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Old
11-06-2012, 11:20 AM
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I think these are interesting posts and a good chart:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Gaps intentional

1. Dominik Hasek (duh)

2. Miikka Kiprusoff (fantastic 3-4 year peak, top 10 goalie every season. Vezina + Cup run)
3. Olaf Kolzig (the backbone of a great defensive team in Washington. Vezina + Cup run)

4. Nikolai Khabibulin (no regular season hardware, but among the top 5 goalies in the league for several years. Excellent in the playoffs).
5. Evgeni Nabokov (Great regular seasons, questionable playoffs).
6. Arturs Irbe (inconsistent, but capable of stealing series when he was on)
7. Henrik Lundqvist (Will move up on the list in a few years. Hard to rank. Better Vezina record already than Bulin and Irbe).
8. Tomas Vokoun (great save % in Nashville and Florida, no regular season awards and no postseason success).
9. Roman Cechmanek (fantastic 3 year stretch in the regular season. Exposed in the playoffs).
10. Ilya Bryzgalov is probably 10th. Is there anyone better?


(I had written this before ushvinder reminded me of CechmanekL 10. There has to be a better pick than Halak for 10th. Christobal Huet has had a better career to this point, but there has to be someone better, right?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolorous Edd View Post
The following table is sorted by wins, the top five among these goalies in wins, SV%, GAA and SO are bolded.

Player From To GP W L SV% GAA SO
Dominik Hasek 1991 2008 735 389 223 .922 2.20 81
Nikolai Khabibulin 1995 2010 696 306 276 .908 2.68 41
Olaf Kölzig 1990 2009 719 303 297 .906 2.71 35
Evgeni Nabokov 2000 2010 563 293 178 .912 2.39 50
Tomas Vokoun 1997 2010 575 240 239 .916 2.56 38
Miikka Kiprusoff 2001 2010 458 239 153 .914 2.44 34
Arturs Irbe 1992 2004 568 218 236 .899 2.83 33
Tommy Salo 1995 2004 526 210 225 .905 2.55 37
Henrik Lundqvist 2006 2010 338 177 110 .918 2.33 24
Roman Turek 1997 2004 328 159 115 .907 2.31 27
Cristobal Huet 2003 2010 272 129 90 .913 2.46 24
Vesa Toskala 2002 2010 266 129 82 .902 2.76 13
Johan Hedberg 2001 2010 293 123 114 .900 2.93 14
Ilya Bryzgalov 2002 2010 258 120 96 .914 2.55 16
Niklas Bäckström 2007 2010 230 119 68 .918 2.37 19

So for 1-8 I agree with TheDevilMadeMe, then...

9. Tommy Salo
10. Niklas Bäckström

Looking through Vezina voting in recent years tells me Niklas was sixth in 06-07 and 07-08 and third in 08-09. For me that trumps Bryzgalov's second place this past season.

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11-06-2012, 04:08 PM
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Big Phil
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Is Kolzig really considered a European goalie? I mean, he was born in South Africa (can't remember if it was him or Robyn Regehr that were born there because his parents were missionaries) and then grows up in Canada. Officially he plays for Germany in major tournaments basically because he was eligible and always not good enough to compete with the elite Canadian goalies.

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11-06-2012, 04:49 PM
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TheMoreYouKnow
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His parents are German, so Kolzig is German by definition, but he is a product of Canadian junior hockey so he is a European goalie while at the same he's not really relevant to the discussion of European hockey.

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11-07-2012, 03:28 AM
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How does Pelle Lindbergh not make top 5?

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11-07-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moridin View Post
How does Pelle Lindbergh not make top 5?
Having only played 157 games, I suppose there just aren't enough stats to go on to make a fair comparison. He took home the Vezina in 1985 with 40 wins, but that was his only standout year.

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11-07-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
Having only played 157 games, I suppose there just aren't enough stats to go on to make a fair comparison. He took home the Vezina in 1985 with 40 wins, but that was his only standout year.
Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.

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11-07-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moridin View Post
Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.
Well yes, but then after that an ill-advised decision to drive a vehicle, sadly. He just doesn't have the staying power that can even overtake a Khabibulin who was a Cup champ with nice longevity

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11-07-2012, 05:17 PM
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Buck Aki Berg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moridin View Post
Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.
Jim Carrey was once the best goalie in the NHL and had a couple of good seasons before it. Nobody's saying he ranks higher than Richter among American goalies, because Carrey never tripled the legal limit and tried to drive home, thus living long enough to be solved by his opponents. We don't know if Lindbergh would have stayed that high a caliber goalie for years to come, and we can't just assume that he would have. He has himself to blame for not being widely considered an all-time great.

157 games just isn't a big enough sample size to determine his rank among goalies who have played 5-6 times as many games.

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11-07-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
Jim Carrey was once the best goalie in the NHL and had a couple of good seasons before it...
Not saying Lindbergh should be among the Top 5, but...

1) unlike Jim Carey (Jim Carrey is a different matter) he has a good non-NHL resume (best WJC goaltender 78, Swedish All-Star 79 and 80) that deserves to be taken into account.
2) unlike Jim Carey he doesn't have a weak playoff resume right during his peak.

Factors to be considered. Other than that, I agree with what you say. Lindbergh could have been Top 5, but he only has himself to blame, sadly.

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11-07-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
Having only played 157 games, I suppose there just aren't enough stats to go on to make a fair comparison. He took home the Vezina in 1985 with 40 wins, but that was his only standout year.
Maybe his only standout year statistically, or in terms of NHL awards, but he got plenty of attention in his rookie year, too, for his great play, and was rookie of the year AND MVP in the AHL before that. Olympic bronze medalist before that, I think. AND he was the best goaltender in the WJC20s before THAT, come to think of it. So yeah, he hardly came out of nowhere, or fluked a good season, or whatever.

edit: Having checked, he was also voted as the top Swede in the NHL in '82/83... his rookie year. Mats Naslund had made his NHL debut by that point, and Kent Nilsson was a 100 point scorer that year, to give you some perspective on that one.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 11-07-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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Old
11-07-2012, 06:43 PM
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Buck Aki Berg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
1) unlike Jim Carey (Jim Carrey is a different matter)
To be fair, I always spell the actor's name wrong too

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