Remember when you said you had the ability to be critical of Luongo? Not so much.
This is the difference between you and I. I can admit the twins haven't been good enough, have been too inconsistent in the playoffs and still be a huge fan of theirs whereas your undying love of Luongo leaves you defending him at every turn, no matter how ridiculous.
Our achilles heel in the playoffs has been coaching, not goaltending. That should be plain to see. Vinnie's in game adjustments, when they exist, are reactionary, late and ineffective.
"Lou....I see they are getting pucks through you like a Surrey girl goes through boyfriends, should I keep you in?"
Raymond's role on this team is constantly under-appreciated and misunderstood.
I think Raymond is a lot more valuable than a lot of Canuck nation would admit, but because we have a plethora of really solid forwards, Raymond sticks out like a sore thumb because fans expect him to score 30 goals. It's weird.
Admittedly he doesn't fit on our roster all that well, but does that mean we should treat him as expendable and use him as a throw in?
To an extent, yes. However, Raymond has never shown any chemistry with Kesler or the Sedins despite AV's obstinate. He has been given every chance to excel, only to fail. His goal scoring ability is not where my concerns lie, but his overall performance leaves a lot to be desired. Consider Higgins, Hansen and even Lapierre are better then him in everything excluding speed.
While he may not necessarily be a throw in, we cannot anticipate much of a return. Not to mention, if we address our forward needs. The only available spot for Raymond is on the fourth line.
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Originally Posted by Scurr
True, but they've never had to. They've lived off controlling the play and dominating shot differential. Like I said, they are going to have a much harder time doing that minus Lidstrom and Stuart.
You also didn't even mention Ballard and Raymond. Canuck fans have largely given up on them, Detroit has a history of getting mileage out of these kinds of players.
I did actually. Detroit might have a slight interest, in particular toward Ballard, however they would expect to pay little more than a second. No package short of Edler gets us Franzen and they have no reason to move Howard.
You keep watching those stats. I'll actually watch the games and decide who has been good and who has been bad.
If it makes you feel better keep blaming Luongo for losing against LA last year even though his replacement fared no better.
I didn't blame Lu for any losses, I took issue with him being called a "playoff performer" when his play and stats do not back that up. I wouldn't call the Sedins playoff performers either because of their inconsistency. Not just in stats, but in their play.
I watch the games, the stats back up what I've seen. Lu has been inconsistent in the playoffs. Even though I've often been right around (nobody seems to notice that) people tend not to take your word for it without something to back it up.
Schneider did fair better, to the tune of a .960 save percentage.
I still don't understand how Lu's been on the market for over 1/2 a yr, yet we still don't know who this 'mystery' team is. How the heck can none of this info be out there? We need more leaks!
I didn't blame Lu for any losses, I took issue with him being called a "playoff performer" when his play and stats do not back that up. I wouldn't call the Sedins playoff performers either because of their inconsistency. Not just in stats, but in their play.
I watch the games, the stats back up what I've seen. Lu has been inconsistent in the playoffs. Even though I've often been right around (nobody seems to notice that) people tend not to take your word for it without something to back it up.
Schneider did fair better, to the tune of a .960 save percentage.
Considering had the Canucks offense bothered to show up for the SCF Luongo would have been the Conn Smythe winner, I'll say he's a pretty decent playoff performer.
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I told ya so. I was right all along!
Considering had the Canucks offense bothered to show up for the SCF Luongo would have been the Conn Smythe winner, I'll say he's a pretty decent playoff performer.
Has a goalie ever won the conn smythe with the 8th best save percentage of starters in a playoffs?
Has a goalie ever won the conn smythe with the 8th best save percentage of starters in a playoffs?
I don't care to look, but I'm going to say no.
If the Canucks offense bothers to show up in the SCF I don't think we get blown out as badly as we did in some of those games. Boston wouldn't have been able to take as many chances as they did. We had no response and wouldn't make them pay for their mistakes so they continued playing on edge and took more chances.
I still don't understand how Lu's been on the market for over 1/2 a yr, yet we still don't know who this 'mystery' team is. How the heck can none of this info be out there? We need more leaks!
Gillis runs a pretty tight ship. None of us saw Hodgson-Kassian coming.
If the Canucks offense bothers to show up in the SCF I don't think we get blown out as badly as we did in some of those games. Boston wouldn't have been able to take as many chances as they did. We had no response and wouldn't make them pay for their mistakes so they continued playing on edge and took more chances.
That's a huge reach and only one series. I don't know how anyone can look at 6 out of 8 series with a sub .903 save percentage and scream playoff performer. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm not blaming him for any losses, but that just isn't good enough.
Has a goalie ever won the conn smythe with the 8th best save percentage of starters in a playoffs?
I don't care to look, but I'm going to say no.
Let's be honest Scurr, at the time Luongo was being considered the favourite for the Conn Smythe. He was pretty good in Chicago, he had about 2 fairly bad games iirc. In Nashville he was good. In San Jose he played out of his mind. It was only in Boston where he had some pretty big crashes. Yet even still, up until game 7 - if Vancouver had won game 7, by any score, Luongo would probably have won the Conn Smythe. This is what I remember from the time. I think there is a lot of revisionist history that went on (not from you but from the media).
Let's be honest Scurr, at the time Luongo was being considered the favourite for the Conn Smythe. He was pretty good in Chicago, he had about 2 fairly bad games iirc. In Nashville he was good. In San Jose he played out of his mind. It was only in Boston where he had some pretty big crashes. Yet even still, up until game 7 - if Vancouver had won game 7, by any score, Luongo would probably have won the Conn Smythe. This is what I remember from the time. I think there is a lot of revisionist history that went on (not from you but from the media).
This is revisionist. Lu had a solid middle two rounds, played great game 5 against San Jose and two great games against Boston. That created some Conn Smythe buzz for him. Then he went and soiled himself twice in Boston and threw that all away. Nobody is going to vote for a goalie for the Conn Smythe after watching that mess.
Tim Thomas posted a .940 save percentage in those playoffs, how on earth do they give it to Luongo with a .914?
For the last time, I'm done with this. If Schneider performs like that in the playoffs, I won't be calling him a playoff performer either.
This is revisionist. Lu had a solid middle two rounds, played great game 5 against San Jose and two great games against Boston. That created some Conn Smythe buzz for him. Then he went and soiled himself twice in Boston and threw that all away. Nobody is going to vote for a goalie for the Conn Smythe after watching that mess.
Tim Thomas posted a .940 save percentage in those playoffs, how on earth do they give it to Luongo with a .914?
For the last time, I'm done with this. If Schneider performs like that in the playoffs, I won't be calling him a playoff performer either.
If it wasn't for Roberto Luongo the Canucks don't make it as far as they did. He was amazing against San Jose, amazing against Nashville, good against Chicago (very clutch in game 7), and very up and down against Boston. He was our best player in the playoffs.
This is revisionist. Lu had a solid middle two rounds, played great game 5 against San Jose and two great games against Boston. That created some Conn Smythe buzz for him. Then he went and soiled himself twice in Boston and threw that all away. Nobody is going to vote for a goalie for the Conn Smythe after watching that mess.
Tim Thomas posted a .940 save percentage in those playoffs, how on earth do they give it to Luongo with a .914?
For the last time, I'm done with this. If Schneider performs like that in the playoffs, I won't be calling him a playoff performer either.
I'm not saying Luongo was incredible. (I'm not saying I would have given him the Conn Smythe - I really don't know who I would have given it to). I think you are fairly accurate, because Luongo could have been better, and can be better. But he was still pretty good overall imo, and I also think there is some truth to what Y2k says about the team being awful at certain points - mainly when damn near everybody was injured in the Boston series. Those were the really high scoring games that murdered his save percentage imo.
One thing I will say is I watched most of Boston/Tampa, and I can tell you (as I'm sure you are aware) Thomas was far from stellar. He was horrible, other than an amazing game 7 (when powerplays were deemed illegal).
That's a huge reach and only one series. I don't know how anyone can look at 6 out of 8 series with a sub .903 save percentage and scream playoff performer. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm not blaming him for any losses, but that just isn't good enough.
Personally, I think we would have won had either Kesler or Hamhuis not essentially been done. That fluke injury Kesler took in game four against San Jose completely obliterated our one-two punch. Once you had Hamhuis' loss, we were damn lucky to get as far as we did with Boston. That you do have to credit Luongo for, regardless of the horrendous games.
If Kesler was healthy though. He wins the Conn Smythe without a second thought. Watching him embarrass Weber and Suter repeatedly was a thing of beauty.
Very interesting. NYI and PHI immediately come to mind. Also gives Canucks leverage if Lu is being sticky with his NTC.
It doesn't give them leverage; it just gives them another option, though I doubt they'd ever do that.
For Luongo, he'd absolutely kill for the Canucks to buy him out. He'd get about $30 million from the buyout that wouldn't be subject to escrow and/or future rollbacks and then he could sign wherever he felt like and collect 2 paychecks. He'd just have to earn $15 million over the remainder of his career to make back what he lost from the buyout. In all likelihood he'd come out millions ahead and he'd get to pick his destination.
It doesn't give them leverage; it just gives them another option, though I doubt they'd ever do that.
For Luongo, he'd absolutely kill for the Canucks to buy him out. He'd get about $30 million from the buyout that wouldn't be subject to escrow and/or future rollbacks and then he could sign wherever he felt like and collect 2 paychecks. He'd just have to earn $15 million over the remainder of his career to make back what he lost from the buyout. In all likelihood he'd come out millions ahead and he'd get to pick his destination.
I can't imagine that someone doesn't want Lu. I'm far from his biggest fan but he's very good to great and a lot better than what a lot of these teams are carting out.
I don't think we buy anyone out but maybe we take someone as part of the trade with an eye on spending Aquilini's money to get a little more value out of it?
It doesn't give them leverage; it just gives them another option, though I doubt they'd ever do that.
For Luongo, he'd absolutely kill for the Canucks to buy him out. He'd get about $30 million from the buyout that wouldn't be subject to escrow and/or future rollbacks and then he could sign wherever he felt like and collect 2 paychecks. He'd just have to earn $15 million over the remainder of his career to make back what he lost from the buyout. In all likelihood he'd come out millions ahead and he'd get to pick his destination.
You're right, I don't think it gives the Canucks much leverage. An oversight on my part.
I don't know how buyouts work, I thought 100% of the contract was paid out. But you're saying only a % is paid? That's interesting. I'd imagine the players wouldn't like the idea of an amnesty clause then.
Either way, I think Philly would be the most interesting team to watch if the clause went through. Would they use it on Pronger? Or perhaps Bryz.
Gillis runs a pretty tight ship. None of us saw Hodgson-Kassian coming.
Ya, Gillis has built a silo around him and his key advisers. I was more thinking from the other teams leaks. It's strange that we don't have a clue. You'd think Friedman, Mckenzie or one of those other goons would be trying to source this other team.
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Originally Posted by Scurr
It's a large enough percentage that players usually come out ahead in the deal. Buyout + new contract > old contract, like opendoor explained with Lu.
Does anyone know the old %? I guess that would be re-negotiated if there were another amnesty offering.
