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Thread (V): Argos embarass Eskimos; Changes need to be made. Nichols seriously hurt.

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Old
11-07-2012, 11:10 AM
  #1
Oilbleeder
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Thread (V): Argos embarass Eskimos; Changes need to be made. Nichols seriously hurt.

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Originally Posted by Expatriate View Post
I would also start Kj but have him on a very short chock chain hooked up to a motorized come-along.
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
What got me is Calgary had no answer for Boyd. He was ripping a first down nearly everytime, and we stopped going to him and went back with Messam.

I like to think we're saving this stuff for the big game. If not then I'll join in asking big questions about this club again.

I'm happy Boyd is back. Lets let him have 15 carries. Guy would get 100yds on his own.
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
I think the Esks will win... and I'm a noted RR Fan.

That said, I don't think there's team in the league the EE wouldn't whoop this week.

I think there's a big time rallying point for G&G, and it's that the black cloud that's been hovering over the team all season is gone.

I suspect a VERY spirited effort.
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Originally Posted by ToothlessAggression View Post
Completely agree with this. Boyd was basically the best back in the league the two previous seasons and had it not been for injuries would have been the leader in rushing yards. Despite the fact he was the Argos only real weapon and everybody knew it, they still couldn't stop him.

I've been saying it since last year, Messam is overrated, he was a product of our hugely underrated run blocking last year. I recall him galloping through gaping holes untouched for 20+ yard gains that a faster back would probably have doubled. Unfortunately because of his passport he will likely play and the far superior RB will be in sweatpants.
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You're right I can't stand Tencer either.
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I have no problem starting Joseph but it better not last until we have virtually no time to make a come back. That's what's been so frustrating. Reed leaves the QB in there way too long when he's struggling.

I'm worried about Nichols only because I think he might be a little nervous and it's better to come in with a, "What the hell, I can't do any worse......." attitude.

As for the running backs, Messam has done absolutely nothing to warrant a start. Boyd and Charles should go, they both have shown they can be productive and Messam seems to lose yardage on every single carry. The guy just doesn't seem to be mentally prepared since his return. Maybe he's injured and him even a little injured spells trouble.

This game is going to be won on the clipboard. We've had some horrendous decision making all year long, it's about time these coaches showed why they should have jobs next season.
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I hope you're right, and think you are in regards to there being a little extra spring in their step when they get on the field. I think getting rid of tillman when they did was very smart, and I also think getting tillman out will help the chances of resigning a lot of the players that are pending free agents that were ignored al year.

I still fear the esks will lose, I think the esks will lose because of Toronto by far having the better QB, and I think Kavis will shoot himself in the foot with some of his decisions.
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11-07-2012, 01:55 PM
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So I dont really follow the CFL but the rumour making the rounds know is that tillman will become the GM of Toronto. Kind of makes him trading Ray there for nothing seem suspicous imo. But like I said have no real cfl knowledge besides watching 1 or 2 games a year.

Does this rumour have any legs or just people taking out their anger on tillman?

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11-07-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
So I dont really follow the CFL but the rumour making the rounds know is that tillman will become the GM of Toronto. Kind of makes him trading Ray there for nothing seem suspicous imo. But like I said have no real cfl knowledge besides watching 1 or 2 games a year.

Does this rumour have any legs or just people taking out their anger on tillman?
That rumour is stupid. There is little chance of Tillman ending up there. Tillman and Jim Barker, the current GM, are friends. Anyone who thinks that Tillman would trade a player there on the chance that he'd also go there one day is wildly delusional. I believe Terry Jones started it, and he's really stretching with that one.

However, there are only eight CFL teams (soon to be nine). if Barker quit or was fired, I suppose Tillman COULD end up there, but to suggest that he foresaw the events that would have to occur first and positioned the trade as prudent because of Ray's age and then thinking he'd like to have the guy when he's a year or two OLDER is crazy.

Think about it. It makes no sense.

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11-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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I agree. I don't think it will happen any time soon. I like Tencer's point, this guy traded Ray for a reason and justified it constantly. Do you think he'd be eager to reunited with him again? Especially with an existing GM in place there and all these rumours about how cancerous he was to the whole organization.

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11-07-2012, 03:00 PM
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I don't see the currently long term medicated Eric Tillman getting another job in the CFL. The guy is off his rocker.

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11-07-2012, 05:13 PM
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Hah, apparently, Bighill is "extremely disappointed" that he wasn't the West nominee for Most Outstanding Defensive Player. The Lions argument? The Eskimos defense finished last the against the run and were second worst against the pass whereas Bighill led the best defense in the league.

Pretty absurd. I guess they missed the fact that this is an individual award and Sherritt has been the runaway favourite all year long.

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11-07-2012, 05:19 PM
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Here's a Vancouver Sun *snicker* article from three days ago weighing the arguments for Bighill and Sherritt.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/A...738/story.html

Quote:
“If you look at the amount of time their (Edmonton’s) defence was on the field, compared to our team, and the type of players on their defence, compared to our defence, I think it’s night and day,” said the Lions’ defensive end Keron Williams, who claimed the CFL sack title with 12. “We have a great group of guys and we played well together. The fact that Biggie was able to achieve the numbers he did, with this group . . . man, it’s a no-brainer.”
Man, it's not likely to happen but it would be sooooooo friggin sweet to go to the Grey Cup and beat these guys. Their level of arrogance is starting to rival the Canucks.


Last edited by Moonlapse Vertigo: 11-07-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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11-07-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Man, it's not likely to happen but it would be sooooooo friggin sweet to go to the Grey Cup and beat these guys. Their level of arrogance is starting to rival the Canucks.
There has to be something in the water there. There just has to be.

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11-08-2012, 01:40 AM
  #9
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I dont know if you guys seen this yet but hc kavis reed is announcing his starting qb for sundays game on thursday
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...153/story.html
If its not nichols i might not even watch the game

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11-08-2012, 08:57 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Hah, apparently, Bighill is "extremely disappointed" that he wasn't the West nominee for Most Outstanding Defensive Player. The Lions argument? The Eskimos defense finished last the against the run and were second worst against the pass whereas Bighill led the best defense in the league.

Pretty absurd. I guess they missed the fact that this is an individual award and Sherritt has been the runaway favourite all year long.
Its not at all absurd. Sherritts stat is very much an artifact of the injuries on this club, lack of starting middle linebacker talent, and a team that was weak defensively this year (should've been strong)

When you look at the Leos Bighill ends up with less tackles because theres so many defenders on that unit that plant guys on the turf. Just a dominant unit. Which doesn't detract at all from the notion that Bighill is a heat seeking missile that rarely gets beat on a play. Sherrit will make the wrong read and allow a long gainer by somebody he should have covered many more times than Bighill would.

If we had a more dominant D line alone Sheritt wouldn't be first man in on many plays. This being the situation Bighill experiences in BC. The play is shutdown instantly by the line. BC simply allows far less backfield scampers. A team dominant against the run with a strong D line affords a linebacker less opportunity to be the first one in. Its pretty simple and the Lions are correct.
********** for saying it maybe, but correct.

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11-08-2012, 09:22 AM
  #11
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So about this starting QB....why do we have to announce anything? Keep TO guessing.

If I am guessing, I believe it will be Joseph. For whatever reason, Kavis likes the guy and I think experience is going to win this battle.

I don't mind it as long as he is pulled when he can't get anything going. Must say, I am a little nervous about this game and I don't know why. Really, we have nothing to lose. If I am a TO fan, I think the pressure is all on them.

Hell, do we we even deserve to be in the playoffs? I guess we just pray the bad karma has left the building and hope for the best.

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11-08-2012, 09:23 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Here's a Vancouver Sun *snicker* article from three days ago weighing the arguments for Bighill and Sherritt.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/A...738/story.html



Man, it's not likely to happen but it would be sooooooo friggin sweet to go to the Grey Cup and beat these guys. Their level of arrogance is starting to rival the Canucks.
Lacking stats for actual playing time for each player, I did a quick approximation (using the opponent's Average Time of possession * 18 games). Dividing tackles by that and both Sherritt and Bighill average the same 0.23 tackles per minute of playing time. So they were both tackling machines, both had a handfull of interceptions, and Bighill had an amazing 9 sacks.
Of course Sherritt missed some time with injury, so his actual stat would be better if we had the right data. Plus I think Bighill benefits from a better defense to pressure the QB, and a better supporting offense to keep his group fresh.

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11-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #13
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So Major Announcement from the Argos before practice today, and it's NOT a Barker Extension......hmmmmmm

(As Per Nielson Twitter)

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11-08-2012, 10:46 AM
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Not a surprise Rhodes fired Tillman. He was never his guy. Rick LeLacheur is the biggest culprit in all this mess. Hugh Campbell ran the team till 2006, then RLL took over. He immediately handed over the complete reins to Danny Maciocia, giving him the keys to the org. We all know how that went, as the team quickly descended and became the laughing stock of the league. RLL was upset he had to fire DM, blaming the fans for making it unbearable for DM to work here, and reluctantly, let him go. He was the one who quickly hired Tillman. TBH, I didn't mind the Tillman hiring at the time, given his past CFL track record, but then, I never had the luxury of being behind the scenes and seeing how he worked. Obviously, it was yet another huge mistake by RLL.

I'm not saying Rhodes will absolutely be the guy we want in the future running this team. Maybe he is a complete dufus. He looked very uncomfortable and clumsy in his interview, but some people don't show well in front of the media. Doesn't mean they're dumb or incompetent. He may very well be incompetent, but I'm not going to take that from interviews.

Most wanted Tillman to be canned, after some highly questionable moves, and Rhodes had the nads to do it, so I'll give him props for that. If he can take his time and make the right hire for our football ops, then obviously we need to let that happen and see where it goes.

Letting 14 starting players go to free agency this late in the season is ridiculous and highly questionable of Tillman's motives going forward. If he signs with Argos as their next GM and even one of those guys goes there, the CFL dammed well better have an investigation. But, we all know how the league acts when penalties need to be invoked. All you have to do is look at the pacifist way they handled Khalif Mitchell to know they'll likely give a half-hearted effort in any action.

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11-08-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its not at all absurd. Sherritts stat is very much an artifact of the injuries on this club, lack of starting middle linebacker talent, and a team that was weak defensively this year (should've been strong)

When you look at the Leos Bighill ends up with less tackles because theres so many defenders on that unit that plant guys on the turf. Just a dominant unit. Which doesn't detract at all from the notion that Bighill is a heat seeking missile that rarely gets beat on a play. Sherrit will make the wrong read and allow a long gainer by somebody he should have covered many more times than Bighill would.

If we had a more dominant D line alone Sheritt wouldn't be first man in on many plays. This being the situation Bighill experiences in BC. The play is shutdown instantly by the line. BC simply allows far less backfield scampers. A team dominant against the run with a strong D line affords a linebacker less opportunity to be the first one in. Its pretty simple and the Lions are correct.
********** for saying it maybe, but correct.

I totally agree with this. Sherritt is a real good player, but he made a lot of tackles that should have been made much earlier by guys in the trenches, or even other linebackers. He is not a big man, and I'm hoping he doesn't get worn down and beat up every year playing a physical position against much larger players.

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11-08-2012, 10:52 AM
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That rumour is stupid. There is little chance of Tillman ending up there. Tillman and Jim Barker, the current GM, are friends. Anyone who thinks that Tillman would trade a player there on the chance that he'd also go there one day is wildly delusional. I believe Terry Jones started it, and he's really stretching with that one.

However, there are only eight CFL teams (soon to be nine). if Barker quit or was fired, I suppose Tillman COULD end up there, but to suggest that he foresaw the events that would have to occur first and positioned the trade as prudent because of Ray's age and then thinking he'd like to have the guy when he's a year or two OLDER is crazy.

Think about it. It makes no sense.

The rumours are hot and heavy in the GTA media that Barker will be gone after this year. If that happens, it will really be interesting as to where this goes.

BTW, now that Tillman is gone, are your connections with the team stiffled or do you have a new guy in place?

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11-08-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
I totally agree with this. Sherritt is a real good player, but he made a lot of tackles that should have been made much earlier by guys in the trenches, or even other linebackers. He is not a big man, and I'm hoping he doesn't get worn down and beat up every year playing a physical position against much larger players.
Yeah, its a function of how many times our revamped D line is completely beat and allows guys to get into the backfield. To wit the memorable record breaking tackle ends up being after a first down gainer with the game on the line.

Kind of an illustration of the problems in this D unit.

Even Munoz, a pretty ordinary tackler in my book, and not even what I would consider as an ideal player for a linebacker type role filled in and got lots of tackles. EVen though he flat out misses half the tackles that are out there to be had.

It was pacman out there if you're in the right position.

I'll give another example for those that aren't seeing this clearly. Shaw, our punter, placekicker likely leads the league in saving tackles by kickers. Sure he's good at this aspect, but he gets so many tackle opportunities due to the futility of the special teams unit.

If Sherritt was playing in BC he would have sub Bighill numbers.

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11-08-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
The rumours are hot and heavy in the GTA media that Barker will be gone after this year. If that happens, it will really be interesting as to where this goes.

BTW, now that Tillman is gone, are your connections with the team stiffled or do you have a new guy in place?
I asked in the other thread, but no answer.

Tillman has one year left from what I gather on his deal, could we not just say no if he wants to go to Toronto?

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11-08-2012, 11:05 AM
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Yeah, its a function of how many times our revamped D line is completely beat and allows guys to get into the backfield. To wit the memorable record breaking tackle ends up being after a first down gainer with the game on the line.

Kind of an illustration of the problems in this D unit.

Even Munoz, a pretty ordinary tackler in my book, and not even what I would consider as an ideal player for a linebacker type role filled in and got lots of tackles. EVen though he flat out misses half the tackles that are out there to be had.

It was pacman out there if you're in the right position.

I'll give another example for those that aren't seeing this clearly. Shaw, our punter, placekicker likely leads the league in saving tackles by kickers. Sure he's good at this aspect, but he gets so many tackle opportunities due to the futility of the special teams unit.

If Sherritt was playing in BC he would have sub Bighill numbers.
Maybe if we had a better line, Sheritt would get for chances to blitz at the QB or to make picks. Saying he only did that good because the line sucked isn't fair.

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11-08-2012, 11:06 AM
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I asked in the other thread, but no answer.

Tillman has one year left from what I gather on his deal, could we not just say no if he wants to go to Toronto?
He's been fired, released from his duties, kicked out of office, whatever you want to call it. He presumably has been paid out for his last year or some sort of severance, dependent on the wording of it. But he's a free agent. He can do whatever he wants now, go wherever he wants to. And my gut says that what he wants is that Toronto job. I have no connections like others, but that's what I feel will happen.

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11-08-2012, 11:08 AM
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He's been fired, released from his duties, kicked out of office, whatever you want to call it. He presumably has been paid out for his last year or some sort of severance, dependent on the wording of it. But he's a free agent. He can do whatever he wants now, go wherever he wants to. And my gut says that what he wants is that Toronto job. I have no connections like others, but that's what I feel will happen.
Do we know that?

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11-08-2012, 11:09 AM
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Maybe if we had a better line, Sheritt would get for chances to blitz at the QB or to make picks. Saying he only did that good because the line sucked isn't fair.

I agree with this, but I really believe I saw a lot of Sherritt tackles made after poor attempts were made from a revamped defensive line due to injury. He is a great player, no question, but IMO, I think Bighill did merit some serious consideration for an award. Team-mates will always pump up a another team-mate. Understandable.

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11-08-2012, 11:11 AM
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Do we know that?
It's common practice when you can someone, that you no longer own their services. You've let them go. I can't tell you whether it was a "guaranteed contract" where he has to be paid not matter what. It's irrelevant. But I can tell you that he is free to go and pursue any other options he wishes, as he has been released as an employee of the company.

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11-08-2012, 11:13 AM
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Its not at all absurd. Sherritts stat is very much an artifact of the injuries on this club, lack of starting middle linebacker talent, and a team that was weak defensively this year (should've been strong)

When you look at the Leos Bighill ends up with less tackles because theres so many defenders on that unit that plant guys on the turf. Just a dominant unit. Which doesn't detract at all from the notion that Bighill is a heat seeking missile that rarely gets beat on a play. Sherrit will make the wrong read and allow a long gainer by somebody he should have covered many more times than Bighill would.

If we had a more dominant D line alone Sheritt wouldn't be first man in on many plays. This being the situation Bighill experiences in BC. The play is shutdown instantly by the line. BC simply allows far less backfield scampers. A team dominant against the run with a strong D line affords a linebacker less opportunity to be the first one in. Its pretty simple and the Lions are correct.
********** for saying it maybe, but correct.


wow, you couldn't be more wrong.

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11-08-2012, 11:17 AM
  #25
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It's common practice when you can someone, that you no longer own their services. You've let them go. I can't tell you whether it was a "guaranteed contract" where he has to be paid not matter what. It's irrelevant. But I can tell you that he is free to go and pursue any other options he wishes, as he has been released as an employee of the company.
Not really, generally guys are under contract still. Sure they might have nothing to do with the team, but generally they still get a pay cheque until the contract runs out or until the team allows them to leave.

Again, was he out right released from his deal? Does anyone know?

If he was then that's a mistake, should've just been fired and made sit on his butt for a year. Especially knowing he wants to go to Toronto.

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