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Old
11-08-2012, 02:00 PM
  #301
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Nashville matched Philadelphia's offer, Nashville has been a responsible team in terms of spending money wisely and responsibly.
Oh yes they are so responsible their operating income at the end of every season is around -7 million. Nashville is one of the teams in this league that needs bailing out season after season. With Weber's contract and possibly a new CBA that changes nothing, these figures will get worst not better.

Net worth of the team in 2011 btw was 163 million. A new franchise is reported to cost around 300 million.

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11-08-2012, 02:17 PM
  #302
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Assuming a 55-60 game schedule, how would you guys feel about all games being played within the conference? That would help save some travel money.
Well, I don't care about saving travel money. But it ought to save some travel wear-and-tear on the players, in what is likely to be a compressed schedule already. So I'd be all for that. Healthier and better-rested players play better.

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11-08-2012, 02:19 PM
  #303
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The problem seems to be making the players whole on their contracts and amnesty buyouts make it easier for that to happen because it makes some players whole by buying them out while still leaving cap space and cap money for the rest of the players.

Having the rich owners throw some more coin in the pot was one thing Fehr wanted to see, so I don't think either side has an issue with buyouts happening.
But that doesn't make sense because all you're asking is for owners to spend money.
The 50-50 split they want is something that is absolutely normal. The fact the players got away with getting more revenues than their employers is pretty silly. Doesn't make much sense.
Now, with a buyout, you're telling the owners ''okay, you can have your 50-50 split, but in order for that to happen you need to dish out millions and millions of dollars in buyouts''. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Rollback is a necessity in my eyes. Seems to me that the players who oppose this in general are either old (over the hill or at end of career) or signed to huge deals. Obviously, it doesn't favor them at all. But I'm sure other guys like MaxPac who are signed to a few years and will hit the jack pot later on don't mind it.

I'm not against amnesty buyouts, I think teams should have the option but I don't think it should be the solution, nor do I think it is.
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Nashville matched Philadelphia's offer, Nashville has been a responsible team in terms of spending money wisely and responsibly.
Sure, and every shook their heads as to how that happened. Nashville is a low-mid spending team for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Assuming a 55-60 game schedule, how would you guys feel about all games being played within the conference? That would help save some travel money.
I don't care what they decide to do so long as we get to see some damn hockey. Players might be happy with that though, they'll be less fatigued and that's important in a condensed season.

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11-08-2012, 02:21 PM
  #304
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Players like Lecavalier are the ones I'm curious to see how teams like Tampa are going to deal with him.

It makes no sense to buy him out but on the other hand keeping him handicaps Tampa for 5 or 6 more years or until he retires.


------------

I'm another that would buy out Bourque before Gomez, just my preference. Both would be my first choice.
Why would you even put Bourque anywhere close to Gomez in terms of bad contracts?

Gomez' cap hit is over twice what Bourque's is and Bourque is a better player. It's a joke they are even brought up in the same sentence. Bourque is one season removed from back to back 27 goal years and his cap hit is 3.3 mil. If he was on another team I'd be looking at him as a "buy low" candidate.


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11-08-2012, 02:25 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Assuming a 55-60 game schedule, how would you guys feel about all games being played within the conference? That would help save some travel money.
If they get a deal done soon the schedule will be 70 to 75. Dreger said they can play 70 games with normal scheduling and playoffs starting May 1st. Pretty easy to squeeze another 5-8 games if you eliminate the all-star game and squeeze a bit.

I expect one of 3 things...

1-deal gets done soon 70-75 games
2-deal falls apart and talks break off for 2-3 weeks, deal gets done around new Year's 40-50 games
3-no season at all

Much of that will depend on how talks go today.

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11-08-2012, 03:00 PM
  #306
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Why would you even put Bourque anywhere close to Gomez in terms of bad contracts?

Gomez' cap hit is over twice what Bourque's is and Bourque is a better player. It's a joke they are even brought up in the same sentence. Bourque is one season removed from back to back 27 goal years and his cap hit is 3.3 mil. If he was on another team I'd be looking at him as a "buy low" candidate.
Bourque's cap hit is irrelevant. He is a useless, moody, unmotivated player that needs to be dumped. If the opportunity presents itself Bergevin should unload him.

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11-08-2012, 03:11 PM
  #307
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So can someone tell me what the NHLPA has conceded so far? If they still insist on getting their 1.83 Billion in a shortened season, how does that mathematically make sense for the owners? The revenues will be down for sure.

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11-08-2012, 03:13 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Bourque's cap hit is irrelevant. He is a useless, moody, unmotivated player that needs to be dumped. If the opportunity presents itself Bergevin should unload him.
So we need size and scoring up front, he is 215lbs, has a track record for goal scoring(88 goals in 249 games as a Flame before coming here) and comes cheap(3.3 mil cap hit) but we should just get rid of him for nothing?

Brilliant!

Typical of Habs fans to have blinders on for anything other than how a player did as a Hab. Obviously he must have been useful and motivated in calgary so have the coaching staff challenge him.

Even in the worst case scenario where both players are useless, a 7.35 mil contract hurts the cap MUCH worse than a 3.3 mil cap hit.


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11-08-2012, 03:14 PM
  #309
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

NHLPA's offered concept to NHL on Make Whole would see players go down to 50-50 of HRR by Year 3. So there's a phase-in element to it



This is not going to go over well. Isn't that the same thing they offered a few weeks ago...are they that nieve?

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11-08-2012, 03:14 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Bourque's cap hit is irrelevant. He is a useless, moody, unmotivated player that needs to be dumped. If the opportunity presents itself Bergevin should unload him.
Bourque has proven year after year that he's a serviceable two way goal scorer. He came into a horrible situtation last year, and was put with players who were also underachieving. Sure, though, let's just blame Bourque and make him a scapegoat for no real reason.

Give him a fresh start, and if he can't perform, then maybe look at moving him. For the time being, I see no reason to trade a big winger who can not only score, but play well defensively, when we have no one at all to replace him with.

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Old
11-08-2012, 03:16 PM
  #311
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Well, I don't care about saving travel money. But it ought to save some travel wear-and-tear on the players, in what is likely to be a compressed schedule already. So I'd be all for that. Healthier and better-rested players play better.
Not to mention a schedule where every game is a so-called "4 pointer" and meaningful.

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11-08-2012, 03:18 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So we need size and scoring up front, he is 215lbs, has a track record for goal scoring(88 goals in 249 games as a Flame before coming here) and comes cheap(3.3 mil cap hit) but we should just get rid of him for nothing?

Brilliant!

Typical of Habs fans to have blinders on for anything other than how a player did as a Hab. Obviously he must have been useful and motivated in calgary so have the coaching staff challenge him.
Kovy was a workhorse too and 100 times more talented.

With the management change, Therrien has the greenlight to reward hard workers and penalize players to take nights off at will a la Bourque or Kovalev. Look at new guys like Brust, Amstrong and Bouillon.

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11-08-2012, 03:21 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

NHLPA's offered concept to NHL on Make Whole would see players go down to 50-50 of HRR by Year 3. So there's a phase-in element to it



This is not going to go over well. Isn't that the same thing they offered a few weeks ago...are they that nieve?
No a few weeks ago they offered 50/50 after 5 years, only if all contracts were honoured to the last cent

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11-08-2012, 03:22 PM
  #314
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No a few weeks ago they offered 50/50 after 5 years, only if all contracts were honoured to the last cent
Rumor has it Fehr wants to have the upper hand with the players getting down to 50.3% instead of 50%. Absolutely mind blowing if you ask me!

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11-08-2012, 03:24 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Kovy was a workhorse too and 100 times more talented.

With the management change, Therrien has the greenlight to reward hard workers and penalize players to take nights off at will a la Bourque or Kovalev. Look at new guys like Brust, Amstrong and Bouillon.
What does Kovy have to do with anything?

Who is Brust? I don't think Therien is naiive enough to think you will win many games with grinders playing in the top 6(see Carbonneau, Guy).

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11-08-2012, 03:29 PM
  #316
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What does Kovy have to do with anything?

Who is Brust? I don't think Therien is naiive enough to think you will win many games with grinders playing in the top 6(see Carbonneau, Guy).
If we didn't keep a much strong and better version of Bourque in Kovalev, why would Bergevin keep this bum if he could buy him out easily? Other fanbases warned us that Bourque was going to be a lazy ass and we were too naive to think a change of scenery would change him.

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11-08-2012, 03:35 PM
  #317
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So we need size and scoring up front, he is 215lbs, has a track record for goal scoring(88 goals in 249 games as a Flame before coming here) and comes cheap(3.3 mil cap hit) but we should just get rid of him for nothing?

Brilliant!

Typical of Habs fans to have blinders on for anything other than how a player did as a Hab. Obviously he must have been useful and motivated in calgary so have the coaching staff challenge him.

Even in the worst case scenario where both players are useless, a 7.35 mil contract hurts the cap MUCH worse than a 3.3 mil cap hit.
Physical attributes don't mean much when you're as soft as butter, and mentally not ready to compete.

Sorry, Calgary had this guy on the block forever with the only taker being one of the most incompetent hockey execs in the teams history. Hrudey made him a weekly lowlight reel with video clips that make you wonder why he's in the NHL.

Bourque had his new start when he came to Montreal. He got no better. He blew it.

Just not the type of player a coach or teamates want around, he'd be better off in another jersey.

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11-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
If we didn't keep a much strong and better version of Bourque in Kovalev, why would Bergevin keep this bum if he could buy him out easily? Other fanbases warned us that Bourque was going to be a lazy ass and we were too naive to think a change of scenery would change him.
First of all Bergevin wasn't the GM that let Kovalev walk.
Second, they didn't just let him go, they made him an offer and he wanted more so they signed Gionta instead. Bourque has a contract and isn't a UFA.
Third, if you buy him out you end up with dead cap space that doesn't produce and you have to go out and pay another player to replace that production.
Fourth, by buying him out you lose him for nothing, if he bounces back he may have good value(low cap hit and can score) at the deadline.
Fifth, if he is a lazy ass then he had ridiculous skill to be able to score a pile of goals on a less than potent Calgary team the last 3+ years. Either he has crazy skill or he worked hard. How many NHLers scored more than 54 goals over 09-10 and 10-11 combined?

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11-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
If we didn't keep a much strong and better version of Bourque in Kovalev, why would Bergevin keep this bum if he could buy him out easily? Other fanbases warned us that Bourque was going to be a lazy ass and we were too naive to think a change of scenery would change him.
If the new CBA permits it, it would be a real boost to the team if Bergevin blasted the enigmas out of the organization . It's better to lose with 23 hard workers than to lose with heartless high maintenance floaters. Either way the team needs to replace the Bourques, Kaberles and Gomez's of the world, no time like the present.

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11-08-2012, 03:41 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Bourque has proven year after year that he's a serviceable two way goal scorer. He came into a horrible situtation last year, and was put with players who were also underachieving. Sure, though, let's just blame Bourque and make him a scapegoat for no real reason.

Give him a fresh start, and if he can't perform, then maybe look at moving him. For the time being, I see no reason to trade a big winger who can not only score, but play well defensively, when we have no one at all to replace him with.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

For goodness' sake! How are people so ready to toss away the big power forward capable of scoring goals because of one off season? Our whole team has difficulty and when Bourque joined us we didn't have any hope in heck of getting into the playoffs due to all of the chaos and stupidity going on. It really did seem like Bourque was simply playing out the season in an effort to avoid injury. Give the man a chance to start the season with his new coaching staff on a team not in turmoil and with players who have an entire season to try and come together to win something and let's see how he does.

I do not see how a 3.33 million dollar cap hit is even close to Gomez' almost $8 million cap hit! We should 100% NOT buy out Bourque just due to a single messed up season. That is like saying we should not try and trade for a guy like Getzlaff because he had a bad season last year. It is like thinking that P. Kane is suddenly not worth acquiring because he is now a 60 point player. Seriously, players have up and down seasons all the time. Bourque has proven capable of getting 27 goals while hitting people. He is what we need. Give him a chance.

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11-08-2012, 03:45 PM
  #321
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First of all Bergevin wasn't the GM that let Kovalev walk.
Second, they didn't just let him go, they made him an offer and he wanted more so they signed Gionta instead. Bourque has a contract and isn't a UFA.
Third, if you buy him out you end up with dead cap space that doesn't produce and you have to go out and pay another player to replace that production.
Fourth, by buying him out you lose him for nothing, if he bounces back he may have good value(low cap hit and can score) at the deadline.Fifth, if he is a lazy ass then he had ridiculous skill to be able to score a pile of goals on a less than potent Calgary team the last 3+ years. Either he has crazy skill or he worked hard. How many NHLers scored more than 54 goals over 09-10 and 10-11 combined?
this is Rene Bourque, not Raymond. This guy has such as reputation as a lazy-ass and it so not the character player that gets "picked up" at the trade deadline that this is a non-starter. If you get the chance you dump him and move on, he's useless.

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11-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #322
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Physical attributes don't mean much when you're as soft as butter, and mentally not ready to compete.

Sorry, Calgary had this guy on the block forever with the only taker being one of the most incompetent hockey execs in the teams history. Hrudey made him a weekly lowlight reel with video clips that make you wonder why he's in the NHL.

Bourque had his new start when he came to Montreal. He got no better. He blew it.

Just not the type of player a coach or teamates want around, he'd be better off in another jersey.
Keep throwing up the ******** to back up a ridiculous opinion. Bourque has averaged over 1 hit a game(NHL stats) over his career, that's more than guys like Eller and Plekanec whom nobody would call soft.

If you need a clown like Hrudy to validate your point then you should quit before you dig a deeper hole.

Bourque came in on a sinking ship and missed a lot of chances early on and seemed to get down on himself, I'm sure all the losing didn't help. Anybody with half a brain wouldn't judge a player only on the worst season of his career....but we see it daily on here.


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11-08-2012, 03:59 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Physical attributes don't mean much when you're as soft as butter, and mentally not ready to compete.

Sorry, Calgary had this guy on the block forever with the only taker being one of the most incompetent hockey execs in the teams history. Hrudey made him a weekly lowlight reel with video clips that make you wonder why he's in the NHL.

Bourque had his new start when he came to Montreal. He got no better. He blew it.

Just not the type of player a coach or teamates want around, he'd be better off in another jersey.
This is the common view of Bourque. From the fans and people who watch him over the years. But that said, beggars can't be choosers and we have a weak team and a particular weakness on the wings. So even if he's all that you describe above and can still score 20 goals, there might be a good argument for keeping him around. We've made that compromise in various degrees in the past, teams all over the league make that kind of compromise all the time.

Bourque's old enough that it's very unlikely he changes. It's just his personality/style to play the way he does. I'd dump him for nothing if the opportunity to improve the team by doing so came up. Which I tend to feel does come up every July 1st. But that's not the situation now. I know for very sure that Geoffrion or Blunden aren't going to score 20 goals. Will Bourque? Well, he gave us lots of reason to doubt it with the way he played for us last season. But at least he has some hope of doing it.

I'm not interested in sacrificing the team's ability to compete in the coming season if we don't have to. I doubt the cap lowers by so much that we *have* to move Bourque. His replacement margin on the cap isn't that big. We can probably afford the compromise of seeing how he performs this season (if there is one - or next if there isn't) before making a decision. There's a sucker born every minute too... maybe he even plays well enough that some other team at some point is ready to give us something on their own compromise purchase as well.

I don't actually have much hope or optimism in the case of Bourque, but at least I think we've reached the point now where it's probably going to be better to keep him. (Not even sure what his recovery time is or when he was expected to be healthy? Forgotten in the midst of the lockout!). We're probably not going to be allowed to buy out an injured player anyway, of course, so it's going to be "mute" (if there's any near-term CBA resolution).

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11-08-2012, 04:06 PM
  #324
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Keep throwing up the ******** to back up a ridiculous opinion. Bourque has averaged over 1 hot a game(NHL stats) over his career, that's more than guys like Eller and Plekanec whom nobody would call soft.

If you need a clown like Hrudy to validate your point then you should quit before you dig a deeper hole.

Bourque came in on a sinking ship and missed a lot of chances early on and seemed to get down on himself, I'm sure all the losing didn't help. Anybody with half a brain wouldn't judge a player only on the worst season of his career....but we see it daily on here.
Bourque is exactly the type of player the new management team doesn't want and at the end of the day that is the most important thing to remember when handing out buyouts. Gomez at least tried, who cared some and was a good teammate unlike Bourque. Bourque isn't a bad apple just an indifferent one, which is worse.

I've watched Hrudy lots of times and that is the only time I've seen him rip a guy to shreds and what he said about Bourque in Calgary was exactly what I saw from Bourque in Montreal.

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11-08-2012, 04:48 PM
  #325
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this is Rene Bourque, not Raymond. This guy has such as reputation as a lazy-ass and it so not the character player that gets "picked up" at the trade deadline that this is a non-starter. If you get the chance you dump him and move on, he's useless.
You're totally right! Instead, hard-working, character guys like Kostitsyn get picked up at the deadline instead of guys like Bourque

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