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Old
11-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #726
blankall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
A much shorter contract would also come with a much higher cap hit. You understand that right? Would you prefer Luongo with 4 or 5 years remaining on his contract but a $7.5M cap hit?
Luongo would not get a 7.5 million cap hit right now. Luongo on a 4 year by 6 mil contract, would have much higher value than his present contract though.

Rinne has the highest cap hit at 7. He's also 4 years younger and coming off a better season. Also, it's likely Nashville overpaid to keep him.

Luongo's contract is in no way a positive. It has a very marginal savings on cap and goes on for way too long.

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11-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Have fun holding on to him and the negative moral it will cost in your dressing room. Oh ya and the extra 5.333 million it will cost you each year over the next 10 years.

I'm sure you guys couldn't use that extra cap space to bring in help you could actual use to compete for the cup.

What I offered was more than anyone else has offered from what I gather in this thread. Forgive me if I'm mistaken.
What you offered was still garbage. We have an alternative to trading him: we can keep him. He's stated he is fine being here, so I trust Luongo's words over yours. Not to mention that he has friends in the lockerroom and is friends with Schneider.

We could use extra cap in the summer when it's easier to use that cap. But with the lack of trading activity during the season it isn't likely that we will be able to use up all that cap space.

But yeah, we'll be in a really tough spot winning the President's trophy once again because both of our goalies provide superb goaltending for us.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:02 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Jensen for Kadri is a wash, and I think both teams would prefer their own prospects. That leaves Frattin/Biggs, Franson/Blacker, and a 2nd. All of which do little to nothing for our team now or in the future. They're all throw ins.
Well, for roster players, I wouldn't mind working in players such as Lombardi (cap dump), Connolly (cap dump), MacArthur, or Bozak. With the last 2 having value.

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11-08-2012, 08:02 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Luongo would not get a 7.5 million cap hit right now. Luongo on a 4 year by 6 mil contract, would have much higher value than his present contract though.

Rinne has the highest cap hit at 7. He's also 4 years younger and coming off a better season. Also, it's likely Nashville overpaid to keep him.

Luongo's contract is in no way a positive. It has a very marginal savings on cap and goes on for way too long.
When Luongo signed the contract it would have been much higher. Also, Rinne's season wasn't that much better than Luongo's at all, yet because he's not a Canuck and he's not named Luongo people give Rinne more credit than he deserves.

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11-08-2012, 08:04 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
I would consider that for Luo...if you want Kassian be prepared to give up Gardiner or Reily
I wouldn't consider that for just Luongo, let alone Luongo and Kassian.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:04 PM
  #731
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Why is he under the impression that the prospects he is throwing in the deal are A prospects.

Frattin is a 4th liner on the Canucks. 3rd if Hansen gets hurt, Kadri is at an all time low in value, Franson is 7-8 on the depth chart and Blacker needs 2-3 seasons before he gets a real shot at breaking into the lineup. The 2nd is nice but we are not rebuilding so it is more useful as at the TDL than the actual draft. Some of the offers are utter garbage for Luongo alone, let alone asking for one of our top prospects.

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11-08-2012, 08:10 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Jensen for Kadri is a wash, and I think both teams would prefer their own prospects. That leaves Frattin/Biggs, Franson/Blacker, and a 2nd. All of which do little to nothing for our team now or in the future. They're all throw ins.
Jensen for Kadri is hardly a wash. Jensen is 3 years younger and already outproducing Kadri. Looks like he could be a lock for our top 6 as early as next year and a first line winger down the line. Kassian on the other hand I see more as developing into a 2nd line/tweener lucic mould winger which does more for me than the 2nd line/tweener playmaker that I see in Kadri.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:12 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
Jensen for Kadri is hardly a wash. Jensen is 3 years younger and already outproducing Kadri. Looks like he could be a lock for our top 6 as early as next year and a first line winger down the line. Kassian on the other hand I see more as developing into a 2nd line/tweener lucic mould winger which does more for me than the 2nd line/tweener playmaker that I see in Kadri.
I said we each prefered our own prospects. Didn't want to start a meaningless debate about who's better, as there's no way we add a top prospect on top of Luongo to get anything anyways.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:14 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't consider that for just Luongo, let alone Luongo and Kassian.
No longer a 4th liner in your eyes now I see... I'm glad your opinion of Kassian is changing.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:18 PM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Why is he under the impression that the prospects he is throwing in the deal are A prospects.

Frattin is a 4th liner on the Canucks. 3rd if Hansen gets hurt, Kadri is at an all time low in value, Franson is 7-8 on the depth chart and Blacker needs 2-3 seasons before he gets a real shot at breaking into the lineup. The 2nd is nice but we are not rebuilding so it is more useful as at the TDL than the actual draft. Some of the offers are utter garbage for Luongo alone, let alone asking for one of our top prospects.
Because some fans (I want to stress every fanbase has them) have this perplexing mentality their prospects are exceptionally more valuable than they are. You couple that with the natural response of "try to get the best deal for your team" and it inevitably leads to trash offers.

Just for Luongo and it's decent. Not what I would prefer but decent nonetheless. Once you add anything, let alone our best prospects and it becomes laughable.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:39 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Well, for roster players, I wouldn't mind working in players such as Lombardi (cap dump), Connolly (cap dump), MacArthur, or Bozak. With the last 2 having value.
If you want to work in a cap dump it has to be Dion Phaneuf. He obviously has negative value because he's overpaid.

To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Phaneuf, Frattin

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11-08-2012, 08:45 PM
  #737
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Doesn't Luongo's NTC dissolve when he turns 38?

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:46 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If you want to work in a cap dump it has to be Dion Phaneuf. He obviously has negative value because he's overpaid.

To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Phaneuf, Frattin


Take out Frattin and Raymond.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:58 PM
  #739
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Take out Frattin and Raymond.
I would do Luongo for Phaneuf straight up...

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11-08-2012, 09:01 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I would do Luongo for Phaneuf straight up...
As would I. Doubt Leafs would though...

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11-08-2012, 09:01 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Crimson View Post
Doesn't Luongo's NTC dissolve when he turns 38?
When Luongo is 39, he must provide a 5 team list within 48 hours of the last game of the 2017-2018 season or otherwise he can be traded to any team.

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11-08-2012, 09:05 PM
  #742
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I am not sure it have been posted before, Luongo have been named (again this year) among the most overrated NHL players by other NHL players vote.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.1.html

Can we agree real NHL players know their hockey more than us ?

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:07 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I am not sure it have been posted before, Luongo have been named (again this year) among the most overrated NHL players by other NHL players vote.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.1.html

Can we agree real NHL players know their hockey more than us ?
So Luongo for Phaneuf makes sense, then?

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11-08-2012, 09:10 PM
  #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So Luongo for Phaneuf makes sense, then?
Is was not a vote about overrating trade value. It was about skill.

In the current NHL market, Defensemen hold more value than Goalie.

It could still change in 5-10 years from now.

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11-08-2012, 09:12 PM
  #745
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Is was not a vote about overrating trade value. It was about skill.

In the current NHL market, Defensemen hold more value than Goalie.

It could still change in 5-10 years from now.
A goalie of Luongo's calibre hasn't been traded since...Luongo. We have no idea what the market is like now. Not to mention Luongo is better(and cheaper) than Phaneuf. And yes his term is longer. I doubt Phaneuf goes anywhere, but valuewise I'd think it's fair, and I would do it from a Canucks perspective.

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:16 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A goalie of Luongo's calibre hasn't been traded since...Luongo. We have no idea what the market is like now. Not to mention Luongo is better(and cheaper) than Phaneuf. And yes his term is longer. I doubt Phaneuf goes anywhere, but valuewise I'd think it's fair, and I would do it from a Canucks perspective.
We have a pretty good idea.

Just take a look at the salary of the top 10 most paid goalie vs the top ten most paid defensemen.

If goalies had more value than other position the laws of market say they would get more $. Its very simple.

Also one of the reason a goalie like Luongo hasnt been traded often could be because they doesn't have enough value to care to trade them.

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:21 PM
  #747
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A goalie that is 'over-rated' has nothing to do with his actual abilities.

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:22 PM
  #748
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Quote:
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Is was not a vote about overrating trade value. It was about skill.
LOL. It was a vote as to who was the most overrated player in the NHL - with Dion Phaneuf being voted #1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
In the current NHL market, Defensemen hold more value than Goalie.

It could still change in 5-10 years from now.
Meh, strongly debatable. As your original point seemed to be that Luongo was overrated, as he was voted such by his peers, and that this somehow diminishes his trade value - the fact that Phaneuf was voted even more overrated should diminish his trade value even more.

So given that that goalies hold more trade value than defencemen, but that Phaneuf is more overrated than Luongo (as voted by his peers, thus substantially dropping that value) a Phaneuf for Luongo trade would be fair.

I would grudgingly accept it.

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:25 PM
  #749
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
We have a pretty good idea.

Just take a look at the salary of the top 10 most paid goalie vs the top ten most paid defensemen.

If goalies had more value than other position the laws of market say they would get more $. Its very simple.

Also one of the reason a goalie like Luongo hasnt been traded often could be because they doesn't have enough value to care to trade them.
Rinne-7 mil
Quick-7mil
Lundqvist-6.85 mil
Price 6.5mil
Miller-6.25 mil
Ward-6.3 mil

vs

Weber-7.5mil
Chara-6.9mil
Karlsson-6.5mil
Suter-7.5mil

Doesn't seem too far off.

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Old
11-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Is was not a vote about overrating trade value. It was about skill.

In the current NHL market, Defensemen hold more value than Goalie.

It could still change in 5-10 years from now.
I don't agree that Dmen hold more value than goalies. The trade in which you acquired Phaneuf for spare parts is good evidence of that. Good goalies are harder to get.

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