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Old
11-08-2012, 10:40 PM
  #26
MAK19
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Taking Zib over Couturier was a mistake. Couturier is better offensively, and is already one of the very best defensive forwards in the NHL.

Calling Zib an elite 3rd liner is premature for sure, but no one should be slammed for saying Couturier would have been a better pick.

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11-08-2012, 11:52 PM
  #27
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Agreed. Couturier would've been a good pick. Don't know why people are criticizing those saying they'd prefer him to Zibby.

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11-09-2012, 07:24 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Agreed. Couturier would've been a good pick. Don't know why people are criticizing those saying they'd prefer him to Zibby.
Not so much criticizing the choice but criticizing people who are giving up on Zbad becoming a top 6 forward already.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Just another comment we're going to laugh off in 2-3 years, those are needed too

Personally, I'm still totally fine with Zibanejad instead of Couturier, I'm ready to be patient... lol there's not even NHL hockey right now

Holy jump to conclusions batman, get busy people.
You sound like the guys who were still happy with Lee over Kopitar in 2007ish.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:23 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Taking Zib over Couturier was a mistake. Couturier is better offensively, and is already one of the very best defensive forwards in the NHL.

Calling Zib an elite 3rd liner is premature for sure, but no one should be slammed for saying Couturier would have been a better pick.
Saying Zib has the potential to be an elite 3rd liner is going full retard. I stand by that. But I never know whether Suiteness is a troll or not.

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Saying Zib has the potential to be an elite 3rd liner is going full retard.
The NHL is a very tough league, we hope he can make it, the indications are there that he'll make the NHL, but the reason why people are so sure we should have drafted Couturier is completely due to hindsight. We could have Tarasenko or Couturier but the Sens management passed on them not because of their skill. The Sens value character while looking past faults (Karlsson (small), Cowen (injured), Zibanejad (less high end skills), whether to a fault or not.

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:47 PM
  #32
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Not taking Dougie Hamilton was a bigger mistake than not taking Couturier.

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by We Want the Cup 2010 View Post
Not taking Dougie Hamilton was a bigger mistake than not taking Couturier.
yeah maybe. course we won't know for another 5 years. no mistakes have been made yet because we haven't seen the results.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Various threads about Erik Karlsson not being good enough to dominate the NHL. Most of us would be guilty of that.
Yeah, I remember that... and the article by Sun(?) where some fans and the writer showed disappointment.

I always had faith in EK. Huge fan of him since watching him in the World Juniors in Ottawa.

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:59 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Various threads about Erik Karlsson not being good enough to dominate the NHL. Most of us would be guilty of that.
I was fortunate enough to buy into Karlsson right away. I was also super excited when the Sens drafted Cowen, and when they traded for Turris. Makes me feel like a genius sometimes. So...

So to keep myself humble, I make note of the times I thought wrong.

I thought Leclaire would turn out great for us. I thought Kovalev would help us go deep in the playoffs. I thought Clousten was going to be a great long term coach for the Sens. Boy was I waaaay off! O.o

Anyway, I figure I'll make some predictions here:

Lehner will be a damn good starter in a few years. Not necessarily a Lundqvist or a Quick, but he'll be a guy the Sens can count on to win them a few games they shouldn't, stay solid in the games they should win, and who can handle the workload and the pressure of a deep playoff run.

Zibanejad will play wing in a top 6 roll in a few years. He'll finish with 50-60 points consistently, and he's going to run over a few fools on the way. Mark him down as a guy who's fun to watch, and you're glad to have him on our team when the chips are down.

I wanted a third, but right now I got nothing.

Anyway, fingers crossed that I'm right

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:17 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Taking Zib over Couturier was a mistake. Couturier is better offensively, and is already one of the very best defensive forwards in the NHL.

Calling Zib an elite 3rd liner is premature for sure, but no one should be slammed for saying Couturier would have been a better pick.
lol read again guys... (could quote other posts too) but this was the original quote :

Quote:
We passed on a guy who looks like he will be an excellent 1st liner for a guy who has the potential of being an elite 3rd liner.
It's not a slam about someone who says Couturier was a better pick, it's the damn jump to the conclusions just 1 year after the draft. Everyone knows (or should) that it takes a lot more than that to jump to conclusions

That's why I said, get busy, get a busy life and you won't care about shoulda, shoulda, shoulda. You will just wait and see instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Agreed. Couturier would've been a good pick. Don't know why people are criticizing those saying they'd prefer him to Zibby.
They can prefer him all they want, but making the conclusion that one will be a 1st liner while the other could be a 3rd liner is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by source View Post
You sound like the guys who were still happy with Lee over Kopitar in 2007ish.
Not really, never really cared about Lee. Had some hope at some point of course but I'm not going to sit here and cry over that for years. It was a bad pick, let's move on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Various threads about Erik Karlsson not being good enough to dominate the NHL. Most of us would be guilty of that.
I sure ain't... Bought a ******** of his Rookie Cards in 2009-10 and made a good chunk of money last year when I sold them...


Last edited by Xspyrit: 11-10-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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Old
11-12-2012, 01:01 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by source View Post
Couturier. Wanted him then; want him even more now.
I feel the same way but I have to confess that I also preferred Couturier to Gabriel Landeskog who didn't really impress me in his draft year. I'm impressed now though.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post

I sure ain't... Bought a ******** of his Rookie Cards in 2009-10 and made a good chunk of money last year when I sold them...
How much did you make off this? (If you don't mind me asking)

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Old
11-12-2012, 10:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
How much did you make off this? (If you don't mind me asking)
Not sure, I'd have to look at my excel files and do a lot of maths... Probably around 3-5K$

But it's not as easy as it looks... You have to know your stuff and be able to spot an under the radar prospect who you think will rise... I have invested in Peter Regin, Jared Cowen and Robin Lehner too. I still have a Karlsson collection too and a lot more

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:25 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
That's why I said, get busy, get a busy life and you won't care about shoulda, shoulda, shoulda. You will just wait and see instead.
lol dude, read the title of thread. Evidently you care enough about ''shoulda, shoulda, shoulda'' to read and post in the Hindsight thread.


"Wait and see"... we don't really need to. There is a very very slim chance than Zibanejad becomes better than Couturier. Extremely small chances. Therefore we can say right now it was a bad pick.


And it's not like I wasted hours coming to this conclusion, nor do I waste hours pondering it, and letting it effect my days. Just making an observation.

I'm a fan of this team, of course I care of they make good picks or not, and if you don't care like you're suggesting, then you're not really a fan.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
lol dude, read the title of thread. Evidently you care enough about ''shoulda, shoulda, shoulda'' to read and post in the Hindsight thread.
Ok I admit I have picked the wrong thread to talk about this, but I have witnessed those hindsight comments and should shoulda shoulda comments in just about in every ******* thread, FOR YEARS (became a member in 2008, was reading since the 2005-06 season)

If you guys keep those comments for that kind of thread, absolutely NO PROBLEM at all.

Quote:
"Wait and see"... we don't really need to. There is a very very slim chance than Zibanejad becomes better than Couturier. Extremely small chances. Therefore we can say right now it was a bad pick.
Now this is a comment that I find really really stupid. How in the hell do you know? Do you have a crystal ball? Extremely small chances? Stop kidding yourself. They both played 1 year of hockey. Mika has already scored a more difficult and bigger goal that Couturier will probably ever score

There's no absolutes that can be concluded after just 1 year removed for the draft. That's only because you're still young and naive.

Quote:
I'm a fan of this team, of course I care of they make good picks or not, and if you don't care like you're suggesting, then you're not really a fan
.

Wait... I'm not a fan because I choose to not cry like a little girl over a bad draft pick for YEARS?

lolz, whatever

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:07 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Mika has already scored a more difficult and bigger goal that Couturier will probably ever score
A kid playing against kids isn't comparable to a young man playing against adults in the pressure-ridden crucible of the NHL playoffs. Until Zibanejad carries us in the NHL playoffs (and he well could) it's not really comparable. Also, I don't know how many people dream of scoring that World Championship goal instead of performing or scoring in the NHL playoffs...

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Now this is a comment that I find really really stupid. How in the hell do you know? Do you have a crystal ball? Extremely small chances? Stop kidding yourself. They both played 1 year of hockey. Mika has already scored a more difficult and bigger goal that Couturier will probably ever score

There's no absolutes that can be concluded after just 1 year removed for the draft. That's only because you're still young and naive.
Do you know who Couturier is and what he did last year?

If Zibanejad ever becomes as good defensively as Couturier is right now, I'll be surprised.

That's before considering offense. Couturier is clearly ahead offensively at the moment too. Clearly. MAYBE Zib matches him offensively. Maybe. Wouldn't bet on it.


Yes I do own a crystal ball, but unfortunately it's dysfunctional in its ability to predict the future. I'm saying the chances of Zib surpassing Couturier are slim. You don't need Professor Trelawney for that.

'Chance' is not an absolute.


Oh, and bigger and more difficult goal? Please. Please. In the World Juniors
Couturier is an NHL player.
Zib hasn't even scored an AHL goal.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:48 PM
  #44
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lol Sens fans are ridiculous. Complete 'what have you done for me lately' mentality around here.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:41 AM
  #45
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I don't think anyone is saying that Zibanejad is a bad player, but people labelling his potential higher than Couturier's are speaking way too soon.

The dude completely shut down Evgeni Malkin this playoffs


Last edited by Philadelphia Collins: 11-15-2012 at 05:07 AM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 07:33 AM
  #46
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I mean we could also say Derek Grant could also be as good as Mikael Granlund, it's way too early to tell either way.

One is clearly ahead of the other at this point. Saying so isn't using a crystal ball.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
A kid playing against kids isn't comparable to a young man playing against adults in the pressure-ridden crucible of the NHL playoffs. Until Zibanejad carries us in the NHL playoffs (and he well could) it's not really comparable. Also, I don't know how many people dream of scoring that World Championship goal instead of performing or scoring in the NHL playoffs...
Fair point, but personally I'm not that sold on Couturier. He disappeared for a long stretch last year (even tough he was young and in his rookie year). He is going to be a quality NHL player but more like a tweener 2nd/3rd shutdown center (I see an average of 40-50 pts per season, a player somewhere between Dave Bolland and Jordan Staal). He had 27 pts in 77 games last year playing on probably the best offensive team in the NHL... I know it's decent for a young rookie but considering his linemates and opportunity it could have been better

Conclusion is that I don't think he is going to be star but that's my feeling/opinion. I'm not talking in absolutes like many do. That's where I have a problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Do you know who Couturier is and what he did last year?
A young guy who played for one of the best NHL teams, particulary offensively? 27 pts in 77 games, am I supposed to be impressed? (I know you like stats)

He's not the 1st player who had a good rookie season shelled on a great team. I liked Matt read better personally. Put Couturier on the Jackets and you'd probably consider him as a bust (seeing at how fast you like to draw conclusions)

Quote:
If Zibanejad ever becomes as good defensively as Couturier is right now, I'll be surprised.
I don't think we drafted a 6th overall to be our best defensive forward. I don't think we'll be in trouble in that department either with guys like Michalek, Silfverberg, Stone, Regin, Greening and more importantly, Kyle Turris.

Quote:
That's before considering offense. Couturier is clearly ahead offensively at the moment too. Clearly. MAYBE Zib matches him offensively. Maybe. Wouldn't bet on it.
You're the only one (well not true unfortunately, many have your disease) who cares about right now, the moment... We are talking about 2 high draft picks selected just over a year ago. We should care about the next 9 years and not "the moment"

Just because Couturier is a better NHL player AT THE MOMENT, doesn't make it the obvious choice over Zibanejad or any other high pick. Let's talk about that in a few years

Quote:
Yes I do own a crystal ball, but unfortunately it's dysfunctional in its ability to predict the future. I'm saying the chances of Zib surpassing Couturier are slim. You don't need Professor Trelawney for that.

'Chance' is not an absolute.

Oh, and bigger and more difficult goal? Please. Please. In the World Juniors
Couturier is an NHL player.
Zib hasn't even scored an AHL goal.
lol c'mon, don't be a hypocrite on top of a fool

I've seen tons of people positionning themselves to eat crow before... One of the very best thing in those message boards and one of my top 3 motivations to keep coming here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
lol that Sens fan is ridiculous. Complete 'what have you done for me lately' mentality around here.
Fixed



Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that Zibanejad is a bad player, but people labelling his potential higher than Couturier's are speaking way too soon.
Just like the opposite...

Seriously, look how facepalming that sentence is :

Quote:
There is a very very slim chance than Zibanejad becomes better than Couturier. Extremely small chances. Therefore we can say right now it was a bad pick.
My forehead is almost bleeding from it.

MAK is the only person I know who could kill someone with his posts.


Last edited by Xspyrit: 11-15-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xspyrit
He had 27 pts in 77 games last year playing on probably the best offensive team in the NHL... I know it's decent for a young rookie but considering his linemates and opportunity it could have been better

A young guy who played for one of the best NHL teams, particulary offensively? 27 pts in 77 games, am I supposed to be impressed? (I know you like stats)
Couturier's three most common line combinations last year saw him playing with:
Rinaldo-Talbot
Voracek-Talbot
Zolnierczyk-Rinaldo

Quote:
He's not the 1st player who had a good rookie season shelled on a great team. I liked Matt read better personally. Put Couturier on the Jackets and you'd probably consider him as a bust (seeing at how fast you like to draw conclusions)
Couturier played the toughest minutes on the Flyers over the course of the season, facing tough opponents and starting 40-ish % of his shifts in the defensive zone.


Quote:
I don't think we drafted a 6th overall to be our best defensive forward. I don't think we'll be in trouble in that department either with guys like Michalek, Silfverberg, Stone, Regin, Greening and more importantly, Kyle Turris.
Of course not. Organization may be a bit behind the times still, drafting a guy like Darren Kramer, but as you point out, they obviously weren't hoping for Zibanejad to be anything but a first liner. Of course, not even in that good a draft position do the picks amount to NHLers all the time.



Quote:
You're the only one (well not true unfortunately, many have your disease) who cares about right now, the moment... We are talking about 2 high draft picks selected just over a year ago. We should care about the next 9 years and not "the moment"

Just because Couturier is a better NHL player AT THE MOMENT, doesn't make it the obvious choice over Zibanejad or any other high pick. Let's talk about that in a few years
Obviously people realize, or I hope they do, that the first year of pro isn't always indicative of the entire career. However, I can see why people would dwell on things and "what if's" like Landeskog and Couturier because they both put up seasons that if Zibanejad could duplicate at any point during his career he should be considered a big success.

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11-15-2012, 03:33 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Do you know who Couturier is and what he did last year?

If Zibanejad ever becomes as good defensively as Couturier is right now, I'll be surprised.

That's before considering offense. Couturier is clearly ahead offensively at the moment too. Clearly. MAYBE Zib matches him offensively. Maybe. Wouldn't bet on it.


Yes I do own a crystal ball, but unfortunately it's dysfunctional in its ability to predict the future. I'm saying the chances of Zib surpassing Couturier are slim. You don't need Professor Trelawney for that.

'Chance' is not an absolute.


Oh, and bigger and more difficult goal? Please. Please. In the World Juniors
Couturier is an NHL player.
Zib hasn't even scored an AHL goal.
Who's a better Dman? Luke Scheen, Alex Pietrangelo, Tyler Myers or Erik Karlsson?

Luke Schenn played in the NHL when he was 18 and had 14 points. Pietrangelo didn't get his 14'th point until 3 years later.

Scheen has played almost 100 more games then all of these players yet he is by far the worst of the group.

To say Couturiere is a slam dunk over Zibby is a complete joke right now.

Look at the 2010 draft, top 10 picks like Burmistov and Neiderytter - I'd rather have Mark Stone drafted at #178 then BOTH of those guys and he's never even scored an NHL goal

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Fair point, but personally I'm not that sold on Couturier. He disappeared for a long stretch last year (even tough he was young and in his rookie year). He is going to be a quality NHL player but more like a tweener 2nd/3rd shutdown center (I see an average of 40-50 pts per season, a player somewhere between Dave Bolland and Jordan Staal). He had 27 pts in 77 games last year playing on probably the best offensive team in the NHL... I know it's decent for a young rookie but considering his linemates and opportunity it could have been better

Conclusion is that I don't think he is going to be star but that's my feeling/opinion. I'm not talking in absolutes like many do. That's where I have a problem
Wrong. In fact, it's not just the bolded that is wrong, it's everything up there^

He had horrible linemates.
He had less than 30 sec of PP time per game.
He had very tough 5-on-5 matchups.

How is this great opportunity? How is this great linemates?

Therefore, I don't trust anything you say. You have no clue what you're talking about. I can give you a source if you want.



I say ''Zibanejad has a slim chance of being better'', and you respond by saying I'm talking in absolutes.
You say ''He is going to be a quality NHL player but more like a tweener 2nd/3rd shutdown center'', and you say that you are not talking in absolutes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
A young guy who played for one of the best NHL teams, particulary offensively? 27 pts in 77 games, am I supposed to be impressed? (I know you like stats)

He's not the 1st player who had a good rookie season shelled on a great team. I liked Matt read better personally. Put Couturier on the Jackets and you'd probably consider him as a bust (seeing at how fast you like to draw conclusions)
As mentioned, not much of an offensive role, limited PP time, etc. No he would not be a bust on the Jackets.

Also:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

Couturier had tough matchups... and look at his goals against when on the ice. By FAR the best on his team, NOBODY is even close. When he's off the ice, the GA skyrocket:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

In the +/- category, only Hartnell even comes close, despite scoring 40 more points than Couturier.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
I don't think we drafted a 6th overall to be our best defensive forward. I don't think we'll be in trouble in that department either with guys like Michalek, Silfverberg, Stone, Regin, Greening and more importantly, Kyle Turris.
The more good defensive forwards your team has, the better your team will be. Simple. Can never have enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
You're the only one (well not true unfortunately, many have your disease) who cares about right now, the moment... We are talking about 2 high draft picks selected just over a year ago. We should care about the next 9 years and not "the moment"

Just because Couturier is a better NHL player AT THE MOMENT, doesn't make it the obvious choice over Zibanejad or any other high pick. Let's talk about that in a few years
I think we should trade Michalek. Care to try again?
Couturier being an (awesome) NHL player at roughly the same age, while Zib cannot even score in the AHL, tells me a lot about Zib's chances to be as good (which aren't good, in case you are having trouble keeping up).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
lol c'mon, don't be a hypocrite on top of a fool

I've seen tons of people positionning themselves to eat crow before... One of the very best thing in those message boards and one of my top 3 motivations to keep coming here.
How am I a hypocrite? For all we know Couts suffers a serious injury and Zib becomes better. There are no absolutes as you like to say. But chances are certainly, CERTAINLY, in Couts' favour at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Just like the opposite...

Seriously, look how facepalming that sentence is :



My forehead is almost bleeding from it.

MAK is the only person I know who could kill someone with his posts.
That post is so bad that it could kill someone you say? Really? omg

and you follow it up with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
He is going to be a quality NHL player but more like a tweener 2nd/3rd shutdown center (I see an average of 40-50 pts per season
good god man





also, what steffeG said

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