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Old
11-08-2012, 10:31 PM
  #351
Whileee
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... it really is a new low. Duplicitous, sleazy. The voters have spoken. To have outbound Council members hijacking the democratic process in forcing through a $320M contract on their way out the door is beyond despicable.
Also, whatever you think of the ethics of these tactics, there is another thing.

It.... won't.... work....

Clark might feel some sense of personal satisfaction at voting "aye" in her final act, and Coyotes' supporters might feel a rush of warm feelings towards her and Jamison, but it is as impractical as so many of the previous hare-brained attempts. The NHL (and perhaps Jamison) need to do something major to come to an agreement that will work.

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11-08-2012, 10:34 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Oh brother, are you calling this a "hit piece"?



Maybe you've never seen an actual hit piece?

Here's a few things to look for:
1) The subject is not contacted for comment
2) Other sources are contacted, they say negative things about the subject
3) It's authored by a features writer, not the city beat reporter
4) It embellishes events disproprotionately
5) It includes a hit, you know, something injurious

So which part of the article, oh excuse me, which part of the "hit piece", exactly, is inaccurate and incomplete? Seems like standard reporting of another Glendale blunder from here. Perhaps the fringe needs to invent an evil plot de jour to help them cope with the battering Clark took at the polls?
There were a couple of details left out of that article CF.

Like.... the person who was running that committee while the alleged illegal transfers were taking place was a Scruggs appointee. Clark only came in recently to chair the committee in order to get to the bottom of the problems and fix them. That little detail was left out despite the fact the reporter was told that.

The article leaves the impression Clark was responsible for the illegal transactions because they came under her watch on the committee.... which wasn't true.

You of all people should know how easy it is to manipulate context. Whether or not the reporter for the AZRep intended for it to be a hit piece, it was turned into one by Chivira's campaign.

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Old
11-08-2012, 10:45 PM
  #353
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By the way, I think that the new mayor and new city council members officially take office at the first regularly scheduled meeting in December.

From the city charter...

Quote:
Sec. 3. - Term of mayor.

The term of the office of Mayor shall commence at 7:00 p.m. on the first regularly scheduled meeting in December following the election for such office, and it shall be for four (4) years or until a successor is elected and qualified.

(5-25-70; 5-18-04; Res. No. 3824(Prop. 101), 1-25-05)

Sec. 4. - Terms of council members.

The term of the office of council members shall commence at 7:00 p.m. on the first regularly scheduled meeting in December following the election for such office, and it shall be for four (4) years or until their successors are elected and qualified.

(5-25-70; 5-18-04; Res. No. 3824(Prop. 101), 1-25-05)
In that case, a vote on November 27 would occur 2 weeks (or a fortnight) prior to the installation of the new mayor and council. I just can't see this as a realistic solution. It seems destined to be thwarted in some way, by some group, by some process. Alienating the incoming mayor and council is a foolish game by Jamison. I can't believe that Jamison and the NHL don't see this. Scapegoating whoever overturns or thwarts this after this "last gasp" vote by supportive council members won't help keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

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11-08-2012, 10:45 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Wow... Listened to the "interview" she's a very cocky person considering she lost her seat. The guy interviewing her sounds like a complete ******, the whole interview is nothing but bashing Scruggs and how Clarke WILL make the vote happen come hell or high water.

Clark doesn't "think" the mayor can stall the vote. Just you wait, it will hit the fan Joyce then you'll be left with egg on your face. She infuriates me! Makes me want to go down there an give her a good slap.

Further she said "Mr Jamison guarentees 79 events a year including hockey" How can he or she guarentee that if there is another lockout? They can't.
You are "infuriated" because.....

A) You want the Coyotes to be moved to QC and...

B) Joyce Clark is one of the four people who could prevent that from happening.

Nothing more..... nothing less.

Regarding the guaranteed 79 dates.... it's in the AMF. There are penalties included for failure to complying. Don't believe me? It was discussed here a few threads back.

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11-08-2012, 10:53 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
You are "infuriated" because.....

A) You want the Coyotes to be moved to QC and...

B) Joyce Clark is one of the four people who could prevent that from happening.

Nothing more..... nothing less.

Regarding the guaranteed 79 dates.... it's in the AMF. There are penalties included for failure to complying. Don't believe me? It was discussed here a few threads back.
TL I'm certain that there is a clause in which Jamison isn't held accountable in the event of a lockout. Besides the way the agreement is worded is terrible at best, you know he could pay and just move the team anyways right? Just you wait this saga is far from over unless the next move is immediate relocation to QC or Seattle.

A) The Coyotes should be moved, Glendale cannot support them. Fact, it has nothing to do with people wanting a team in QC, FWIW I don't care where they go as long as the rest of the league isn't subsidizing this black hole, which will continue to happen if they stay in Glendale. Even with GJ as an owner.

B) Joyce Clark is the epitome of an elected official, she is the scum of the earth looking out for her best interests instead of the well being of the constituents, don't try to feed me **** by telling me it's pudding. The only reason she is doing this is to shake things up, she is a sore loser, nothing more, nothing less.

You won't admit the Coyotes are done because

1) You're a Coyotes fan who can't handle the truth

2) GJ said it was happening, over 13 months ago.... It must be true. Hell even the best screen writters couldn't make this **** up.

Nothing more.....nothing less.

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11-08-2012, 11:08 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
TL I'm certain that there is a clause in which Jamison isn't held accountable in the event of a lockout. Besides the way the agreement is worded is terrible at best, you know he could pay and just move the team anyways right? Just you wait this saga is far from over unless the next move is immediate relocation to QC or Seattle.

A) The Coyotes should be moved, Glendale cannot support them. Fact, it has nothing to do with people wanting a team in QC, FWIW I don't care where they go as long as the rest of the league isn't subsidizing this black hole, which will continue to happen if they stay in Glendale. Even with GJ as an owner.

B) Joyce Clark is the epitome of an elected official, she is the scum of the earth looking out for her best interests instead of the well being of the constituents, don't try to feed me **** by telling me it's pudding. The only reason she is doing this is to shake things up, she is a sore loser, nothing more, nothing less.

You won't admit the Coyotes are done because

1) You're a Coyotes fan who can't handle the truth

2) GJ said it was happening, over 13 months ago.... It must be true. Hell even the best screen writters couldn't make this **** up.

Nothing more.....nothing less.
the 1 thing you're forgetting is this, ajmdd12: all the COG is required to charge is present a favorable lease, then the next step is vetting GJ to a BOG Vote, and the NHL leaves Glendale just as it did Pittsburgh, twice, and Buffalo after the Adelphia corruption collapse, unless there are unresolved issues from the BK Case.

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Old
11-08-2012, 11:11 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
By the way, I think that the new mayor and new city council members officially take office at the first regularly scheduled meeting in December.

From the city charter...



In that case, a vote on November 27 would occur 2 weeks (or a fortnight) prior to the installation of the new mayor and council. I just can't see this as a realistic solution. It seems destined to be thwarted in some way, by some group, by some process. Alienating the incoming mayor and council is a foolish game by Jamison. I can't believe that Jamison and the NHL don't see this. Scapegoating whoever overturns or thwarts this after this "last gasp" vote by supportive council members won't help keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

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11-08-2012, 11:14 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
the 1 thing you're forgetting is this, ajmdd12: all the COG is required to charge is present a favorable lease, then the next step is vetting GJ to a BOG Vote, and the NHL leaves Glendale just as it did Pittsburgh, twice, and Buffalo after the Adelphia corruption collapse, unless there are unresolved issues from the BK Case.
Hutch,

Can you clarify this? You lost me...

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Old
11-08-2012, 11:23 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
In that case, a vote on November 27 would occur 2 weeks (or a fortnight) prior to the installation of the new mayor and council. I just can't see this as a realistic solution. It seems destined to be thwarted in some way, by some group, by some process. Alienating the incoming mayor and council is a foolish game by Jamison. I can't believe that Jamison and the NHL don't see this. Scapegoating whoever overturns or thwarts this after this "last gasp" vote by supportive council members won't help keep the Coyotes in Glendale.
Nothing warms the heart of a community more than trying to thwart its democratic will...

Honestly I'm shocked they would go this route. It's a suicide move that would only destroy what goodwill the Coyotes and hockey have left with the community, and you thought attendance before was bad. Of course good luck trying to cash any cheques once the new council is sworn in...


Last edited by Evil Doctor: 11-08-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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Old
11-08-2012, 11:28 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
The Coyotes should be moved, Glendale cannot support them. Fact, it has nothing to do with people wanting a team in QC, FWIW I don't care where they go as long as the rest of the league isn't subsidizing this black hole, which will continue to happen if they stay in Glendale. Even with GJ as an owner.
Nothing wrong with this statement, how many more years of dismal attendance with rock bottom ticket pricing do you need before you can finally say that the fan interest in the sport just isn't there in this particular market.

For the true fans, guys like RT, The Legend, etc. I feel for you unfortunately there just aren't enough of you, maybe if the arena the Coyotes needed would have been built in Scottsdale or anywhere else on the east side things would have turned out differently.

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11-09-2012, 12:01 AM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Hutch,

Can you clarify this? You lost me...
that was the charge given to GJ when he was introduced, some have forgotten that GWI killed the last agreement, MNN

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11-09-2012, 12:02 AM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Nothing wrong with this statement, how many more years of dismal attendance with rock bottom ticket pricing do you need before you can finally say that the fan interest in the sport just isn't there in this particular market.

For the true fans, guys like RT, The Legend, etc. I feel for you unfortunately there just aren't enough of you, maybe if the arena the Coyotes needed would have been built in Scottsdale or anywhere else on the east side things would have turned out differently.
HUH?


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11-09-2012, 12:05 AM
  #363
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I don't want to be another Canadian jumping on the relocation ban wagon but how can the team survive there, didn't they have poor ticket sales? and this with a good team making it deep into the playoffs. How bad will things get if/when they become a bad team? Can Jamison relocate the team if the losses start to mount?

Sorry I don't come here often.

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11-09-2012, 12:13 AM
  #364
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I don't want to be another Canadian jumping on the relocation ban wagon but how can the team survive there, didn't they have poor ticket sales? and this with a good team making it deep into the playoffs. How bad will things get if/when they become a bad team? Can Jamison relocate the team if the losses start to mount?

Sorry I don't come here often.
Wait...wait...WHAT?!??!? YOU are a Canadian? YOU?!?!? Aren't you the guy who is obsessed with Kansas City and posts almost exclusively about the NHL needing to put a team there?

Mind=Blown

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11-09-2012, 12:31 AM
  #365
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Question Glendale/AZ folks, how easy or hard is it to fire the City Manager? Some government jobs you serve at the pleasure of someone and can be fired at any point and others there is a process. It varies depending on if its federal, state, and local and it depends on which state or municipality it is.
Under the CoG City Charter, the City manager can be removed with 30 days notice - after a preliminary Council vote, followed by a Public Hearing 10 to 20 days later, followed by a final Council vote. However, the manager can be suspended from his duties under the preliminary resolution.

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11-09-2012, 12:40 AM
  #366
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There were a couple of details left out of that article CF. Like.... the person who was running that committee while the alleged illegal transfers were taking place was a Scruggs appointee.
That's a strategic omission, according to you. One done intentionally to promote an anti-Clark agenda. That doesn't sound like grasping at straws at all. Hey, didn't you also say there were inaccuracies in the article? Where are they? Or did you give up trying to find them...

Quote:
Clark only came in recently to chair the committee in order to get to the bottom of the problems and fix them.
She got to the bottom of the problems by receiving a report on October 4 and... ? What? What did she do, Legend? She fixed the problem by doing... nothing? Do you smell what you're shoveling yet?

Quote:
That little detail was left out despite the fact the reporter was told that.
Told by whom? Do you have any evidence to corroborate this assertion? Or is it another nefarious activity from the shadow syndicate?

Quote:
The article leaves the impression Clark was responsible for the illegal transactions because they came under her watch on the committee.... which wasn't true.
Impressions are subjective. I read the article and drew no such conclusion. Perhaps you want there to be a conspiracy to help you cope with the atomic thud left by Clark's re-election effort?

Quote:
You of all people should know how easy it is to manipulate context.
Of course I know, Legend. I'm part of the conspiracy. According to you, I post messages all over the internet to advance my anti-Coyote agenda, because there is no such thing as copy/paste and no one has ever scraped my BoH content to use elsewhere without my permission.

Quote:
Whether or not the reporter for the AZRep intended for it to be a hit piece, it was turned into one by Chivira's campaign.
Nice back peddle. A contender used the ineptitude of the current Glendale council against the incumbent? Wow, that sure is an evil plot. Or maybe it's the most predictable thing ever. Clark was the only one naive enough to run again. The others all retired rather than exposing themselves to the scrutiny of an election.

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11-09-2012, 12:43 AM
  #367
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Wait...wait...WHAT?!??!? YOU are a Canadian? YOU?!?!? Aren't you the guy who is obsessed with Kansas City and posts almost exclusively about the NHL needing to put a team there?

Mind=Blown
Huh?

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11-09-2012, 12:49 AM
  #368
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Under the CoG City Charter, the City manager can be removed with 30 days notice - after a preliminary Council vote, followed by a Public Hearing 10 to 20 days later, followed by a final Council vote. However, the manager can be suspended from his duties under the preliminary resolution.
Now since Skeete is only the "interim" City Manager so he wouldn't really be firing him it would be simply hiring someone else.

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11-09-2012, 01:06 AM
  #369
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B) Joyce Clark is the epitome of an elected official, she is the scum of the earth looking out for her best interests instead of the well being of the constituents, don't try to feed me **** by telling me it's pudding. The only reason she is doing this is to shake things up, she is a sore loser, nothing more, nothing less.
The one thing I will give her is she is right that her term in fact doesn't end until a certain day and has the right and duty to serve until that date comes. I don't know why Lieberman bailed early, but people are supposed to stay until the end and work until the end.

That being said a couple of things:

1) the mayor did a 360? huh? A 360 means you wound up back in the same spot. I think you mean a 180. It was particularly funny that both her and one of the hosts said that. One is like "it seems like the mayor did a 360" and the other responds "she did do a 360"

2) "we have the experience with the situation blah blah" ok get off your high horse. I am pretty sure everyone who ran for council and got elected knows the situation and they probably talked to enough voters in the course of their campaigns to know what their constituencies want. Heck some of them ran with specific positions on the Coyotes situation and by winning they are pretty much expected to carry those out.

3) The Canadian media hasn't been ginning up controversy. Over the course of this debacle its been three different markets (Hamilton, Peg, and QC) that have been in the running for the team so you've probably had different waves of press. More importantly, the facts have been fluid and shifting so for every impending deal falling apart rumor that you want to blame Canada for there is a "the deal is about to close" rumor I can throw back at Clark.

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11-09-2012, 06:44 AM
  #370
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1) the mayor did a 360? huh? A 360 means you wound up back in the same spot. I think you mean a 180. It was particularly funny that both her and one of the hosts said that. One is like "it seems like the mayor did a 360" and the other responds "she did do a 360"
To be fair, everybody involved in this has been going in circles since the beginning.

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11-09-2012, 07:03 AM
  #371
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Can we get a pre-game summary of what is (or isn't) going on with the upcoming court hearing today? Is Glendale gonig to be held in contempt? A mere spanking or could they face anything more severe? Is Tindall really going to want to continue getting dragged to these court hearings for the next little while in an effort to push the AMF through?

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11-09-2012, 08:45 AM
  #372
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so, is this it? is this the final crazy moment when the roller coaster comes flying down the rail out of control? the big climax?

fast editing, flashing vignettes of the cast of characters as the coaster begins to take flight ...

joyce clark devilishly rubbing her blood soaked hands at the base of the teetering structure, laughing maniacally and clutching that well-worn photo of dreamboat shane.

greg jamison sitting in the back of his idling 1982 limo, cigarello smoke wafting out the window, nervously spilling a bottomless Glenlivet as he mutters "yes sir, of course sir" on the phone to NYC.

elaine scruggs donning her blue and red "G" cape as she rushes to save the town.

phil lieberman snoring away in his council chair, three days after the meeting ended.

darcy olsen taking a tray of cupcakes out of the oven with an all-knowing twinkle in her eye.

matthew hulsizer staying up late, cursing his mom for making him work on his remedial english assignment.

rebekah sanders enjoying a cup of peppermint tea, relieved she no longer needs to cover it all.

off in the distance, a small clown car whirling around in donuts, desperately trying to point towards saskatoon.

tj hocking confused and scratching his head as a hand reaches out with change at the chik-fil-a drive thru.

ed beasley and craig tindall, heads in hands, consoling each other on the edge of their jack's warehouse loveseat, cursing the gods for ruining their master plan.

... and Judge Redfield T. Baum, scuffed leather shoes resting on the desk, musing out his window as the sun sets, "i told them. they should have just taken balsillie's fifty million".

please tell me this is finally the end of the franchise ... the team and the movie ... i dont think we can take any more.

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11-09-2012, 08:51 AM
  #373
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If they do this 11th hour ramrod of the subsidy. What will be running through the mind of Knaack? She's getting recall papers drawn against her. It would be political suicide to vote "yes" on this. One wonders what she would do.

The tin hat society probably would think she might have some sort of lucritive position outside of the CoG if she'd be recalled and lose, after a yes vote to the deal.


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11-09-2012, 09:01 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
so, is this it? is this the final crazy moment when the roller coaster comes flying down the rail out of control? the big climax?

fast editing, flashing vignettes of the cast of characters as the coaster begins to take flight ...

joyce clark devilishly rubbing her blood soaked hands at the base of the teetering structure, laughing maniacally and clutching that well-worn photo of dreamboat shane.

greg jamison sitting in the back of his idling 1982 limo, cigarello smoke wafting out the window, nervously spilling a bottomless Glenlivet as he mutters "yes sir, of course sir" on the phone to NYC.

elaine scruggs donning her blue and red "G" cape as she rushes to save the town.

phil lieberman snoring away in his council chair, three days after the meeting ended.

darcy olsen taking a tray of cupcakes out of the oven with an all-knowing twinkle in her eye.

matthew hulsizer staying up late, cursing his mom for making him work on his remedial english assignment.

rebekah sanders enjoying a cup of peppermint tea, relieved she no longer needs to cover it all.

off in the distance, a small clown car whirling around in donuts, desperately trying to point towards saskatoon.

tj hocking confused and scratching his head as a hand reaches out with change at the chik-fil-a drive thru.

ed beasley and craig tindall, heads in hands, consoling each other on the edge of their jack's warehouse loveseat, cursing the gods for ruining their master plan.

... and Judge Redfield T. Baum, scuffed leather shoes resting on the desk, musing out his window as the sun sets, "i told them. they should have just taken balsillie's fifty million".

please tell me this is finally the end of the franchise ... the team and the movie ... i dont think we can take any more.
Well painted picture.

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11-09-2012, 09:15 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
so, is this it? is this the final crazy moment when the roller coaster comes flying down the rail out of control? the big climax?

fast editing, flashing vignettes of the cast of characters as the coaster begins to take flight ...

joyce clark devilishly rubbing her blood soaked hands at the base of the teetering structure, laughing maniacally and clutching that well-worn photo of dreamboat shane.

greg jamison sitting in the back of his idling 1982 limo, cigarello smoke wafting out the window, nervously spilling a bottomless Glenlivet as he mutters "yes sir, of course sir" on the phone to NYC.

elaine scruggs donning her blue and red "G" cape as she rushes to save the town.

phil lieberman snoring away in his council chair, three days after the meeting ended.

darcy olsen taking a tray of cupcakes out of the oven with an all-knowing twinkle in her eye.

matthew hulsizer staying up late, cursing his mom for making him work on his remedial english assignment.

rebekah sanders enjoying a cup of peppermint tea, relieved she no longer needs to cover it all.

off in the distance, a small clown car whirling around in donuts, desperately trying to point towards saskatoon.

tj hocking confused and scratching his head as a hand reaches out with change at the chik-fil-a drive thru.

ed beasley and craig tindall, heads in hands, consoling each other on the edge of their jack's warehouse loveseat, cursing the gods for ruining their master plan.

... and Judge Redfield T. Baum, scuffed leather shoes resting on the desk, musing out his window as the sun sets, "i told them. they should have just taken balsillie's fifty million".

please tell me this is finally the end of the franchise ... the team and the movie ... i dont think we can take any more.
Apart from the very last bit, I fully endorse this message. Haha. Well done. Now, what song is playing? Lacrimosa? Carmina Burana?

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