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Old
11-09-2012, 09:17 AM
  #376
cutchemist42
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If the NHL were ethical and had a conscience, they would not go through with this. Democracy spoke, and for them to go along with an outgoing council cramming this through because a slight lapse period in new council being seated says alot.

I'm at the point where if the NHL participates in this, I cannot support them in good faith, honest and true.

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11-09-2012, 09:23 AM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
If the NHL were ethical and had a conscience, they would not go through with this. Democracy spoke, and for them to go along with an outgoing council cramming this through because a slight lapse period in new council being seated says alot.

I'm at the point where if the NHL participates in this, I cannot support them in good faith, honest and true.
The NHL has no morals. Never has and never will. They don't care if people in Glendale have to start selling their children to be able to pay Jamison his AMF, just as long as it works for him.

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11-09-2012, 09:26 AM
  #378
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Neither does Jamison have morals. If he takes that AMF without the will of the population, population can just decide to not go to the games and let him go bankrupt. Then the AMF will be cancelled.

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11-09-2012, 09:35 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Apart from the very last bit, I fully endorse this message. Haha. Well done. Now, what song is playing? Lacrimosa? Carmina Burana?
I think a good tune to play over this set would be the "Out of Limits" by the Marketts

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11-09-2012, 09:45 AM
  #380
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The NHL has no morals. Never has and never will. They don't care if people in Glendale have to start selling their children to be able to pay Jamison his AMF, just as long as it works for him.
What a stretch. So the NHL should decide what the city of Glendale should or shouldn't do with their money? They have elected officials for that.

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11-09-2012, 10:01 AM
  #381
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Is there a way this (possible) plan can be exposed more publicly and to all the new councillors be informed of the meetings/vote in advance?
.... you mean like give rise to pause, insert an Apostrophe'? Shutdown these Playground Psychotics, stop them from committing the city to a $320M folly with Uncle Meat?... I believe it will be Moon. See, You Cant Do That on Stage Anymore. Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowining Witch.Time to put an end to these purveyors of Burnt Weeny Sandwiches, shut down their stand.... ever tell you about the time Weasels Ripped My Flesh? Dreadful experience. Hideous really. Never really did recover. Still wake up in the middle of the night screaming the screams of silence no one ever hears.

Quote:
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Clark might feel some sense of personal satisfaction at voting "aye" in her final act...
... exactly, and thats whats so frightening about this. She has motive
(which may now include vengeance) and seemingly the means.

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The NHL has no morals. Never has and never will.
.... Bingo. Beyond irresponsible. Cold, calculating and callous to wantonly push a host city right over the edge. One who has already gone well beyond the call of duty in being more than accommodating & generous. If it was up to me, Id "over-pay" to the tune of $6M in AMF's per annum over the first 5yrs, that amount decreasing with performance & incentive bonuses increasing over the life of the agreement, and, Id give the owner an "out" whereby if within the next 4yrs their unable to meet the minimum thresholds, still bleeding red-ink, they serve 12mnths notification that they plan to leave, the city receiving 6mnths to prospect & secure a new owner at an agree'd upon price, books opened, the entire process open & transparent. None of this ASG type nonsense, you play by the rules or leave now.

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11-09-2012, 10:07 AM
  #382
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Oh you're good, Killion....!!

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.... you mean like give rise to pause, insert an Apostrophe'? Shutdown these Playground Psychotics, stop them from committing the city to a $320M folly with Uncle Meat?... I believe it will be Moon. See, You Cant Do That on Stage Anymore. Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowining Witch.Time to put an end to these purveyors of Burnt Weeny Sandwiches, shut down their stand.... ever tell you about the time Weasels Ripped My Flesh? Dreadful experience. Hideous really. Never really did recover. Still wake up in the middle of the night screaming the screams of silence no one ever hears.

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11-09-2012, 10:08 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
.... you mean like give rise to pause, insert an Apostrophe'? Shutdown these Playground Psychotics, stop them from committing the city to a $320M folly with Uncle Meat?... I believe it will be Moon. See, You Cant Do That on Stage Anymore. Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowining Witch.Time to put an end to these purveyors of Burnt Weeny Sandwiches, shut down their stand.... ever tell you about the time Weasels Ripped My Flesh? Dreadful experience. Hideous really. Never really did recover. Still wake up in the middle of the night screaming the screams of silence no one ever hears.



.
You fear Martens and Fishers as well?

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11-09-2012, 10:12 AM
  #384
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Seriously, how has this not hit the Arizona press yet?

Its a big story of a lame-duck council misusing public funds, without the electorate knowing - both Democrats and Republicans should be all over this.

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11-09-2012, 10:21 AM
  #385
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What a stretch. So the NHL should decide what the city of Glendale should or shouldn't do with their money? They have elected officials for that.
No, the NHL should not decide how the CoG spends their money. That wasn't the point.

The point is they don't care what any city does or sacrifices, just as long as someone is willing to do so. If a city was to bankrupt itself to keep an NHL team in place for 20 years, the NHL is more than happy to have that happen. As long as the team stays, that's the point.

Bill Daly stood up in front of the CoG council and told them to give the NHL $25M, but not to worry about it because it was just insurance and was never going to be spent. Hey, this is business and I don't have a problem with that, but the NHL knew the CoG was out of its league, and knew exactly how to tug on the emotional heart strings to get the CoG to give up anything to try and keep their team. Just shows their character.

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11-09-2012, 10:22 AM
  #386
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... and Judge Redfield T. Baum, scuffed leather shoes resting on the desk, musing out his window as the sun sets, "i told them. they should have just taken balsillie's fifty million".
Imagine. Between backstopping the NHL's losses and Balsillie's payoff, it's a swing of $100 million. That's worth about two years of property taxes to the city.

Incredible.

edit: it's also 20% of the imaginary $500 million loss that the city conjured up would be the result of the Coyotes leaving. Except it's real.

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11-09-2012, 10:23 AM
  #387
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Is it now being said here that there may actually be people in power in Glendale who will want to shut this whole charade down? LOL.... After all this time, what a fools errand, waste of timmmmeee and money. I truly hopes it happens. Got nothing particularly against the Coyotes in Arizona, but this has been idiocy at its fullest, and to have reason finally prevail, that would be hilarious. LOL !!

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11-09-2012, 10:30 AM
  #388
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Whatever one thinks about the ethics of the plan by Clark and Jamison to push this through, the reality is that it seems like the council vote will be nothing more than a "Pyrrhic victory". Alienating the incoming council and waving a red flag in front of a growing opposition invites ultimate failure. If Jamison and the NHL actually try to do it this way, then it suggests to me that they are not serious about keeping the Coyotes in Glendale for the long term. They have to try harder to come up with a plan that is likely to succeed in the long term.

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11-09-2012, 10:38 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Whatever one thinks about the ethics of the plan by Clark and Jamison to push this through, the reality is that it seems like the council vote will be nothing more than a "Pyrrhic victory". Alienating the incoming council and waving a red flag in front of a growing opposition invites ultimate failure. If Jamison and the NHL actually try to do it this way, then it suggests to me that they are not serious about keeping the Coyotes in Glendale for the long term. They have to try harder to come up with a plan that is likely to succeed in the long term.

It really doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do. I can imagine the legal stuff that might come up, also too, those players when not playing interact with the townspeople-if this got pushed through and the optics played out that it really was just for "a bunch of rich players", I could see some rather uncomfortable situations for the players in day to day being told by townspeople "our taxes are paying for your salary" (I did say OPTICS). Can imagine some players want to get out of town. Not to mention as others have suggested the people just staying away-to the point that their current attendance would seem sell outs every night-where people attend not even the thousands, but the hundreds.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:59 AM
  #390
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I found email contacts in the Arizona/PHX media.

If anyone wants to send them messages on the issue and expose this plan to push through the lease vote, PM me.

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11-09-2012, 11:00 AM
  #391
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You fear Martens and Fishers as well?
... you mean Marten Fisher the musician? Electronica. Minor hit called Embrace the Moose....
ahh, no thanks.... apparently likes to hunt Partridge with a handgun. a most peculiar mind.

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11-09-2012, 11:18 AM
  #392
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... you mean Marten Fisher the musician? Electronica. Minor hit called Embrace the Moose....
ahh, no thanks.... apparently likes to hunt Partridge with a handgun. a most peculiar mind.
No, but I find it interesting that some parent would name their child after two members of the Musteldae family. Makes me wonder what his middle name is??? Mink?? Polecat??? Otter????

But that is way off topic

Back to Glendale. It is curious to see what sorts of response the general public will have if given an opportunity to speak before the vote (if we are to take Clarks word) on the 27th. I imagine there are going to be some fiery speeches.

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11-09-2012, 11:25 AM
  #393
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No, but I find it interesting that some parent would name their child after two members of the Musteldae family. Makes me wonder what his middle name is??? Mink?? Polecat??? Otter????

But that is way off topic

Back to Glendale. It is curious to see what sorts of response the general public will have if given an opportunity to speak before the vote (if we are to take Clarks word) on the 27th. I imagine there are going to be some fiery speeches.
Absolutely. If any Glendale city council meeting could ever be described as "can't miss" viewing, the one on November 27 seems to be the one. I expect that tempers will run very high. I wonder if the incoming mayor and council members might be in the audience. I also doubt that Jamison will be easily permitted to cloak the identify of his investors and future bosses.

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11-09-2012, 11:32 AM
  #394
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The article leaves the impression Clark was responsible for the illegal transactions because they came under her watch on the committee.... which wasn't true.
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Impressions are subjective. I read the article and drew no such conclusion. Perhaps you want there to be a conspiracy to help you cope with the atomic thud left by Clark's re-election effort?

(...)

Nice back peddle. A contender used the ineptitude of the current Glendale council against the incumbent? Wow, that sure is an evil plot. Or maybe it's the most predictable thing ever. Clark was the only one naive enough to run again. The others all retired rather than exposing themselves to the scrutiny of an election.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...spent-mil.html

I have to agree with CF here. Legend, if you get that impression from reading the article, I don't know what to say.

Quote:
The audit said staff did not follow rules and regulations, or keep the Board of Trustees, which oversees the fund, informed about the transfers. However, the audit noted the council was told about one transfer before it happened and others afterward.

The board, which is chaired by Councilwoman Joyce Clark, was presented with the audit in early October.

Clark had said the board should have been better informed, according to a transcript of the board's Oct. 4 meeting.
My personal opinion is that Clark is an incompetent public servant, but that article did not reinforce my impression at all.

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11-09-2012, 12:00 PM
  #395
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No, but I find it interesting that some parent would name their child after two members... Back to Glendale.... I imagine there are going to be some fiery speeches.
... clear cut case of a stage name JF55JF, and yes, what Whileee says here I echo.
Theres just no way they force this thing through on the 27th. Absolute firestorm.

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I expect that tempers will run very high....

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11-09-2012, 12:02 PM
  #396
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I found email contacts in the Arizona/PHX media.

If anyone wants to send them messages on the issue and expose this plan to push through the lease vote, PM me.
Why would I want to do that? Lame duck or not, she is still the elected official for the moment. If the writers of the constitution did not want this to happen, they would not have had a delay between the election and the actual transfer of power.

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11-09-2012, 12:05 PM
  #397
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....because the good citizens and taxpayers of Glendale have a right to know.

Most don't follow this thread, so its imperative their local media cover in advance what will happen on Nov.27th, so they are informed.

EDIT = "most" = almost none if any, of course.

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Why would I want to do that? Lame duck or not, she is still the elected official for the moment. If the writers of the constitution did not want this to happen, they would not have had a delay between the election and the actual transfer of power.

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11-09-2012, 12:09 PM
  #398
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IANAL, but here's an idea...
  • Current council rams through AMF with Jamison
  • GWI files lawsuit to invalidate, asserting violation of gift clause
  • Can the new council instruct Tindal to plead "nolo contendere" or the civil equivalant thereof?
The result would be that GWI basks in the glory of "saving Glendale", and Glendale gets the millstone off its back. Comments from CF?

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11-09-2012, 12:20 PM
  #399
Killion
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....because the good citizens and taxpayers of Glendale have a right to know.... Most don't follow this thread, so its imperative their local media cover in advance what will happen on Nov.27th, so they are informed.
... I dunno about that mz. Who Are the Brain Police? Us? These are the comments from a recently defeated small-time narrow minded city councillor, the taste of defeat still fresh in her mouth. She thinks the City of Glendales gonna hand over $300M+ to Bow Tie Daddy, as in Lets Turn the Water Black, Hot Poop, aint happenin. But sure, Keep it Greasy Joyce. People'll cotton on real quick, and if they dont, they'll deserve what they get with Greg Jamison and the Return of the Son of Monster Magnet sucking every plug nickle out of the city coffers it possibly can until theres nothing left to take.

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11-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #400
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....because the good citizens and taxpayers of Glendale have a right to know.

Most don't follow this thread, so its imperative their local media cover in advance what will happen on Nov.27th, so they are informed.
If you were a tax paying citizen in Glendale, I would support you.

I am willing to bet that you could not care less about the good citizens of Glendale. Once this whole "coyotes; thing is settled, you will never pay attention to the politics in Glendale ever again.

Clark is the current elected official on Council until the transference of power. She has every right to vote on the lease as she feels fit. It is not wrong or unethical regardless of what the voters did on election day. Just because she is voting for something you do not want to see does not make it wrong.

I will agree that it would be likely be inappropriate to vote based on the public positions of the new council; however, this is politics. Maybe the new council would prefer to have the vote done before they get power; therefore, they would be able to blame the old council for the decision. Despite their public opposition, it would not be the first time a politician lied to the general public and they really want the deal to go through.

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