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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-08-2012, 04:45 PM
  #901
SK13
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Originally Posted by AlanHUK View Post
If the tweets some are sending out are to be believed the NHL have increased their revenue sharing offer by 20m since their original proposal.

So the NHL offered to go from 180m in their original proposal to 200m.

And the PA have asked for them to go from 240m in their original proposal to 260m.
Less concerned with revenue sharing and more concerned about the NHL's response to the three year stipulation on the PA's make whole proposal.

I can see the NHL and PA finding a middle ground for revenue sharing. I can't see the NHL budging from a Year 1 50-50 split.

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11-08-2012, 04:50 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Less concerned with revenue sharing and more concerned about the NHL's response to the three year stipulation on the PA's make whole proposal.

I can see the NHL and PA finding a middle ground for revenue sharing. I can't see the NHL budging from a Year 1 50-50 split.
I agree the league won't accept the pa offer but from what I heard the pa offer seems reasonable hopefully the NHL can work off this pa proposal

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11-08-2012, 04:52 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by 402 View Post
I agree the league won't accept the pa offer but from what I heard the pa offer seems reasonable hopefully the NHL can work off this pa proposal
Nothing to "work off". It's pretty much based on the NHL's proposal from October. They can haggle the numbers into an acceptable median, but if the PA and league are entrenched in their positions about HRR - this isn't going to end.

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11-08-2012, 05:32 PM
  #904
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@TSNBobMcKenzie: Today's meeting is over. Two sides will meet again tomorrow.

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Don Fehr will provide short update in about 10 min

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11-08-2012, 08:33 PM
  #905
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LeBrun just tweeted that talks nearly broke down this afternoon but both sides pushed aside emotion and stuck with it.

Whatever.

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11-08-2012, 09:17 PM
  #906
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@aaronward_nhl: According to NHLPA source,and reported by @LouisJean_TVA ,Union feels today's proposals were NOT rejected,rather countered.

@reporterchris: Reports the NHL rejected NHLPA proposals today are untrue. The league countered. And the union will likely counter back tomorrow.

So it got a little bumpy today thats to be expected as we get into the details of the econmic issues the good news is it sounds like the nhl did not reject pa's propasal but rather countered the pa offer and meetings will continue tomorrow after both sides convene internally tonight

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11-08-2012, 09:35 PM
  #907
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Good to hear they are finally making progress.

Now if only both sides were smart/mature enough to have realised they could have been doing this back in the summer, instead of pushing each other off a cliff. Ya know, when we had a full season and a winter classic.

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11-09-2012, 08:59 AM
  #908
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Good to hear they are finally making progress.

Now if only both sides were smart/mature enough to have realised they could have been doing this back in the summer, instead of pushing each other off a cliff. Ya know, when we had a full season and a winter classic.
From what I gather things are looking up at the moment, but all it will take is either side to throw a curve ball and then we'll be looking at cancelling games until the end of 2012.

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11-09-2012, 09:50 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
From what I gather things are looking up at the moment, but all it will take is either side to throw a curve ball and then we'll be looking at cancelling games until the end of 2012.
I'm not sure they are:

Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
NHL and NHLPA go into Day 4 of negotiations still looking for some traction after 3 days, by all accounts, of mostly spinning their wheels.
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
I understand negotiations...just don't see how the lockout ends anytime soon given the position of both sides.

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11-09-2012, 10:05 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
From what I gather things are looking up at the moment, but all it will take is either side to throw a curve ball and then we'll be looking at cancelling games until the end of 2012.
Fehr's latest memo to the players is up on TSN. It sounds like little actual traction has been made. Now that info is getting released to the public again it seems like both sides are getting ready to blame the other side when this breaks down.

I am far less optimistic that I was a couple of days ago. ****.

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11-09-2012, 10:33 AM
  #911
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I am far less optimistic that I was a couple of days ago. ****.
your first mistake was ever being optimistic in the first place... this won't end until the NHL destroys the players, just like they did in 2004... the NHL has all the power and they know it, while the NHLPA is very prideful and won't admit defeat easily... another lost season is the likely outcome, with the players coming back to the league in the summer of 2013, tail between their legs, just like they did last time

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11-09-2012, 10:49 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
your first mistake was ever being optimistic in the first place... this won't end until the NHL destroys the players, just like they did in 2004... the NHL has all the power and they know it, while the NHLPA is very prideful and won't admit defeat easily... another lost season is the likely outcome, with the players coming back to the league in the summer of 2013, tail between their legs, just like they did last time
Yes destroy the players and burn a whole year, then wonder why no one is going to the game and why the only sponsors you can get is XL foods.

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11-09-2012, 10:56 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Yes destroy the players and burn a whole year, then wonder why no one is going to the game and why the only sponsors you can get is XL foods.
Except I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Well maybe in Phoenix

I am pretty disappointed to see that memo from Fehr 'leak'. Exactly as someone else mentioned it seems like they are laying the groundwork to blame the NHL when/if the talks break down again.

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11-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #914
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Looking at the memo seems like neither side is moving very far.

There is no balance in negotiating power here; if there was, we might see more fruitful discussions.

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11-09-2012, 11:04 AM
  #915
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I absolutely hate how some sportscasters 'opinions' hold such sway over the public.

We're all hearing the same news and getting the same details, but when some jackass on the tele says something, hopes get lifted or crushed.

These media ****** form opinions based on emotion and ratings, how their words hold such sway is beyond me.

The 2 sides are talking, their both greedy and self-centered, but they're talking. Might be arguing the whole time, could be gaining ground too.

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11-09-2012, 11:16 AM
  #916
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I got excited with the owner's first real proposal about a month or so ago. I wont make that mistake again.

Best policy is just resign to the year being lost and then any agreement before that will be a bonus.

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11-09-2012, 11:38 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Wretched Oil View Post
I absolutely hate how some sportscasters 'opinions' hold such sway over the public.
When it's LeBrun or McKenzie, their "opinions" don't enter into it. They're always talking to someone.

Someone like Garrioch doesn't appear to have anything but his own cynical viewpoint.


Last edited by Soli: 11-09-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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11-09-2012, 03:01 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
When it's LeBrun or McKenzie, their "opinions" don't enter into it. They're always talking to someone.

Someone like Garrioch doesn't appear to have anything but his own cynical viewpoint.
But they're still talking to an emotional human that is merely reacting with their feelings.

Not facts when someone involved spews their thoughts.

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11-09-2012, 03:17 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I got excited with the owner's first real proposal about a month or so ago. I wont make that mistake again.

Best policy is just resign to the year being lost and then any agreement before that will be a bonus.
I agree with that sentiment, but I have to admit, several days of long meeting without each side beaking off at the other through the media afterward has given me some slight cause for optimism.

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11-09-2012, 03:19 PM
  #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I got excited with the owner's first real proposal about a month or so ago. I wont make that mistake again.

Best policy is just resign to the year being lost and then any agreement before that will be a bonus.
Exactly. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

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11-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #921
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I don't know - I want to see NHL hockey, but I for whatever reason would very much like to see the union crushed. You have to think that if/when the league cancels the season the players will be like "WTF did we just do"? And IF that happens, I imagine they will be a long way from the $3.3B in revenues they saw last year - most hardcore fans will likely be back, but there will most definitely be some casualties in the form of the casual fans. Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and a few others will likely (almost definitely) still be sold out, but some of the softer markets I think will see noticeable decreases in attendance.

It's like baseball - the first couple of strikes and lockouts didn't really hurt attendance, but the 94 strike was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of fans - they suffered major drops in attendance coming out of that strike, and a lot of markets have still never recovered (although the McGwire-Sosa thing was HUGE in getting people watching MLB again)

I think this time for the NHL is like the 94 strike for MLB. Last time around a lot of fans understood - whether on the side of the players or the owners, they understood what the owners wanted/needed and why the players did not want it (the cap)

This time? They're bickering on how to split a $3.3B pie. If this season is lost, I wouldn't be surprised to see revenues next year (assuming there would be hockey next year) plummet to $2.5-$2.7B.

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11-09-2012, 04:47 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Yes destroy the players and burn a whole year, then wonder why no one is going to the game and why the only sponsors you can get is XL foods.
hey, this isn't what i WANT to happen, it's just what i think WILL happen

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11-09-2012, 05:03 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I agree with that sentiment, but I have to admit, several days of long meeting without each side beaking off at the other through the media afterward has given me some slight cause for optimism.
This is my feeling exactly.

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Old
11-09-2012, 05:12 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by 402 View Post
@aaronward_nhl: According to NHLPA source,and reported by @LouisJean_TVA ,Union feels today's proposals were NOT rejected,rather countered.

@reporterchris: Reports the NHL rejected NHLPA proposals today are untrue. The league countered. And the union will likely counter back tomorrow.

So it got a little bumpy today thats to be expected as we get into the details of the econmic issues the good news is it sounds like the nhl did not reject pa's propasal but rather countered the pa offer and meetings will continue tomorrow after both sides convene internally tonight
Sounds like a buncha thinskins getting chaffed ******** *****.

jebus grow up.

I haven't bothered to follow this melodrama since the NHL offered to payback some lost player revenue a week ago but seriously how far apart would this be at this point? What are we talking now in how far apart the deal is. Sounds like its been very close for a week and still arguing.

Sounds like the NHLPA arguing for the sake of arguing and mending hurt feelings and such.

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Old
11-09-2012, 05:33 PM
  #925
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Talks didn't get "bumpy" today, they're about to stall again.

Quote:
Jeff Gordon ‏@gordoszone
Uh, oh. NHL insiders sensing that the labor talks are not in a happy place right now. If Bettman piles on with tough talk, look out.
Quote:
Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey
#NHLPA negotiating committee to have conf. call with PA executive. #NHLCBA talks end for tonight. Rumors of bad feeling all round. Oh, goody
Every time I see the term "labour talks" as it pertains to millionaires and billionaires I feel like breaking something.

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