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2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

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Old
10-01-2012, 02:36 PM
  #76
heksagon
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How about Jori Lehterä? I think he has a pretty decent chance to make the team if he continues to rip up the KHL like he does now.

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10-01-2012, 04:35 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
How about Jori Lehterä? I think he has a pretty decent chance to make the team if he continues to rip up the KHL like he does now.
Since there will be a new coach and a new playing style he certainly has a shot.

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10-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #78
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The first two lines down the center will likely be M.Koivu and either Filppula or Granlund, with the other one playing on Koivu's wing.

Third line likely requires a KHL centre. Kontiola and Immonen are the usual suspects, but if Lehterä can keep doing what he's doing, he's definitely rocketing to the top of that shortlist. Barkov as a wild card? Might be a little too soon. While the centre situation is not ideal, it's not hurting either.

Filppula - Koivu - Ruutu
Korpikoski - Granlund - [Armia/Pulkkinen/some sniper type, god please]
Jokinen - Lehterä - Bergenheim
Komarov - Lajunen [or some other 4th line type] - Hartikainen
Leino/Hagman/Petrell/etc.

Have the necessary wings too, save for one raw scorer we could use. Why are people dreaming about Barkov or OJ down the center when we need a true-and-tried sniper more than anything, damnit! Armia, have a breakout season... pleeeease. Or Pulkkinen. Somebody. Or do we STILL have to rely on Selänne, at 43?


Defense... could use more meat. Out of OD types, Pitkänen and Vatanen are locks. Timonen too, if he still plays. Still need one more to complete PP blueline. Niskala? A boring, albeit relatively safe pick. Määttä? Outside chance. Some relatively young SM-liiga guy taking the necessary strides? Teemu Eronen?

DD... Väänänen and Joonas Järvinen make two, and Lydman should still play. That's all we need. For backups, well, there are old warhorses like Kukkonen and Jaakola, though I'd really hate to rely on them. Still, stretched real thin. Even a single injury is a major blow.

Lydman - Vatanen
Pitkänen - Timonen
Väänänen - Järvinen
[OD type]

Won't bother listing goalies. Those we have covered.


Last edited by FiLe: 10-02-2012 at 02:26 AM.
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10-02-2012, 01:55 AM
  #79
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Barkov will be ready.

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10-02-2012, 03:17 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Barkov will be ready.
Yes. Hes close to being ready allready. If everything goes well, hes in the World Chamipnships this year.

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10-02-2012, 05:30 AM
  #81
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Whoa. Talk about jumping the gun.

As of right now, Barkov is an upper echelon SM-liiga centre, which is nothing short of impressive for a 17-year-old. And yeah, his projection is a bona fide NHL star player.

But coaches don't usually pick players for major tournaments based on what they are going to be. (Doubly so if the coach is J.Jalonen.) I've no doubt that in a couple of years he's very close to the top of our centre depth chart, if not right there at the first seed.

But as of right now? There are still a handful of more veteran players who are going to get the nod before him. So let's not get ahead of ourselves.

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10-02-2012, 01:23 PM
  #82
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Barkov is very good defensefly maybe he can be our 4th line center and penalty killer like Mikko Koivu was in 2004 WC ???

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10-25-2012, 04:26 PM
  #83
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Rinne, Rask

Pitkänen - Vatanen
Timonen - Lydman
Järvinen - Määttä
Niskala

Ruutu - Koivu - Korpikoski
Filppula - Granlund - Armia
J Jokinen - Lehterä - Komarov
Hartikainen - Barkov - Bergenheim
Kontiola

The way I see it. IMO Ristolainen and Teräväinen are nowhere near the roster. I dont think either that Armia would be there but I had to put some goal scorer next to Granlund.. Barkov and Määttä, for their part, might very well be there.

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10-25-2012, 07:13 PM
  #84
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What new playing style would that be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
Since there will be a new coach and a new playing style he certainly has a shot.

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10-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #85
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A "safe" roll:

Rinne (Rask)

Lydman - Vatanen
Pitkänen - Timonen
Väänänen - Järvinen
Niskala

Filppula - Koivu - Ruutu
Hagman - Granlund - Jokinen
Korpikoski - Lehterä - Bergenheim
Komarov - Lajunen - Joensuu
Leino


All somewhat proven players. Note, I'd like to see Määttä (replacing Niskala) and Armia (replacing Hagman) make it - though it'd technically mean that they'd have to make it straight to NHL come next season. Breaking the WHC roster coming spring and producing there could also help.

Barkov, well, I guess the same words apply to him as to Armia. Either somehow make it to WHC (which could be plausible, I guess, maybe placed on wing as in Granlund's case?) or cross over directly after draft and make it straight to NHL. If neither of those happens, no chance. It'll be the new head coach's first tour of duty, he's almost certain to play conservative there.

However, I still don't see him as 4th line C, especially if he breaks a NHL roster. If he's going to threaten anything, it's Lehterä's slot.


Of course, we'll be far wiser after next spring's WHC. After all, there's a high chance Jalonen picks yet again some off-chance guy who ends up doing well for himself. In 2011 it was Jani Lajunen, 2012 Joonas Järvinen. (I bet if I'd claimed around Xmas a couple of years back that those two are Sochi contenders, most of you would have asked to sample the stuff I'm smoking.) 2013, hmm... I can't help thinking we're still a bit short on reliable D-men, especially the puck-moving variety. Perhaps someone like Teemu Eronen, who seems to have taken some neat strides playing next to Världens Bästa Karlsson? I also see that Ilkka Heikkinen is making a name for himself in Switzerland.


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What new playing style would that be?
Come back and ask us again when we know who the coach is going to be.

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10-25-2012, 11:11 PM
  #86
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Sometimes(most of the time) a change of coaching makes little difference to the playing style of each respective National team, especially in short international tournaments where the team comes together in such a quick span of time.

I would expect to see the same playing style I have come to know from Finnish teams for some time now.


All the countries tend to use pretty much the same formula for some time due to strength/weaknesses of their personnel and mentality/philosophy of how they like to play Hockey.

I expect no major surprises from how the Finnish team will attempt to play, Coaching change be damned.


Minor differences depending on who is named but basically business as usual.

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10-26-2012, 04:21 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by espo View Post
Minor differences depending on who is named but basically business as usual.
In a general sense, I tend to agree. The Finns will very likely still play a gritty, physical game where every player remembers his two-way duties.

But despite that, there might also be some shifts coming, and not so much due to coaching, but due to the player crop changing.

See, one of the key things to Finns being able to play certain style of game comes due to the fact that the core of the NT has been pretty much the same for the past 10-15 years. During that time, Finland's entry list has probably been the easiest to predict whenever a major tournament rolls around. It's always Koivu, Lehtinen, Selänne, Timonen... all the way down to 4th liners, ending with Jarkko Ruutu.

I've no doubt that in the future, we'll be seeing Granlund, Vatanen, and handful of others become similar staples. But it's changing the whole crop in one major stroke that might bring some changes. Not least because this new guard is expected to be maybe tad more skilled overall than the old one.

While the coach may have little to do with it, I guess the shift still sort of personifies with him. Especially in the case of Jukka Jalonen, who's been having the thankless job of operating during a time when the old guard is on decline and the new one not quite there yet. And despite this, the man managed to whip one of these transitionary squads to a world title. All the more power to him.

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10-26-2012, 05:43 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
A "safe" roll:

Rinne (Rask)

Lydman - Vatanen
Pitkänen - Timonen
Väänänen - Järvinen
Niskala

Filppula - Koivu - Ruutu
Hagman - Granlund - Jokinen
Korpikoski - Lehterä - Bergenheim
Komarov - Lajunen - Joensuu
Leino
I pretty much agree with this roster, except that I'd replace Lajunen with Nokelainen. Petrell should also be considered for 4th line wing, most likely competing with Joensuu for that spot. I'm also still hoping that OJ changes his mind after J. Jalonen's gone and joins the team to center the 2nd line (I'm unsure if Granlund will be ready for that duty in Sochi).

Not expecting much from the Sochi team, I'm afraid. We should be much better off in 2018 when the new generation's mature enough to play in the Olympics and shoulder responsibility.

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10-26-2012, 06:00 AM
  #89
FiLe
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I pretty much agree with this roster, except that I'd replace Lajunen with Nokelainen. Petrell should also be considered for 4th line wing, most likely competing with Joensuu for that spot.
Yeah, apart from Komarov, I think there are a few more options for 4th line who are pretty much interchangeable. Nokelainen would be just fine for C, maybe N.Kapanen or even Saku for one last time. For the other wing, besides Petrell, Hartikainen is also an option.

It's more of a "now-cast" I suppose, the team we'd likely see if the games were to begin right now. It's always a good starting point when you don't know who of the youngsters will be ready, if any.

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10-26-2012, 08:28 AM
  #90
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I agree it will be interesting to see what the new guard of players will bring in terms of playing style if indeed it turns out they are slightly more skilled as a group then the old.

but I don't feel the gap in skill from the old crop will be that large (if at all, time will tell) I expect more of what you mentioned.........a gritty, physical game where each player is expected to remember his 2 way duties.

Considering the amount of skill the Finns will face against teams like Russia, Canada and Sweden I don't think there is much room for them to change a whole lot.


IMO this is what will still give them the best chance of success going forward.

Quote:
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In a general sense, I tend to agree. The Finns will very likely still play a gritty, physical game where every player remembers his two-way duties.

But despite that, there might also be some shifts coming, and not so much due to coaching, but due to the player crop changing.

See, one of the key things to Finns being able to play certain style of game comes due to the fact that the core of the NT has been pretty much the same for the past 10-15 years. During that time, Finland's entry list has probably been the easiest to predict whenever a major tournament rolls around. It's always Koivu, Lehtinen, Selänne, Timonen... all the way down to 4th liners, ending with Jarkko Ruutu.

I've no doubt that in the future, we'll be seeing Granlund, Vatanen, and handful of others become similar staples. But it's changing the whole crop in one major stroke that might bring some changes. Not least because this new guard is expected to be maybe tad more skilled overall than the old one.

While the coach may have little to do with it, I guess the shift still sort of personifies with him. Especially in the case of Jukka Jalonen, who's been having the thankless job of operating during a time when the old guard is on decline and the new one not quite there yet. And despite this, the man managed to whip one of these transitionary squads to a world title. All the more power to him.

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11-09-2012, 06:41 AM
  #91
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So... Erkka Westerlund. Our "new" head coach.

Meh. Could have been worse, I guess. At least he's not some rookie who has to know his players first to be effective. The Liitto was in a pinch, given the timing of Jalonen's resignation, so this was pretty decent damage control, to be honest.

And from 2014 onwards? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call already that it'll be Lauri Marjamäki time. Him becoming an assistant coach now has nothing random about it.

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11-09-2012, 08:48 AM
  #92
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So... Erkka Westerlund. Our "new" head coach.

Meh. Could have been worse, I guess. At least he's not some rookie who has to know his players first to be effective. The Liitto was in a pinch, given the timing of Jalonen's resignation, so this was pretty decent damage control, to be honest.

And from 2014 onwards? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call already that it'll be Lauri Marjamäki time. Him becoming an assistant coach now has nothing random about it.
I like the signing. The new coaches first assignment is the Olympics. We need an experienced coach who already has the respect of our NHLers, we don't have time to wait for the players to gain their respect on some young coach no one has ever heard of. Plus Westerlund already has a terrific Olympic performance as a coach in his resume so I'm sure all the guys trust him. And also he doesn't play as much of a coaches game as Jalonen so it's easier for the players to adapt.

Besides I see this as a momentary thing only, I doubt he would've got the spot the olympics were to be held 3 years from now.

I agree with the Marjamäki part. He's awesome and I can see him as our future long term coach.

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11-09-2012, 11:24 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
I like the signing. The new coaches first assignment is the Olympics. We need an experienced coach who already has the respect of our NHLers, we don't have time to wait for the players to gain their respect on some young coach no one has ever heard of. Plus Westerlund already has a terrific Olympic performance as a coach in his resume so I'm sure all the guys trust him. And also he doesn't play as much of a coaches game as Jalonen so it's easier for the players to adapt.

Besides I see this as a momentary thing only, I doubt he would've got the spot the olympics were to be held 3 years from now.

I agree with the Marjamäki part. He's awesome and I can see him as our future long term coach.
I totally agree with you. I don't think Westerlund will change things much; the strategy will probably stay very similar to Jalonen's and Mikko Koivu will still lead the team (I doubt the head coach has much power over that decision, anyway, as it's probably Kale who makes that decision).

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11-09-2012, 12:47 PM
  #94
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I doubt the head coach has much power over that decision, anyway, as it's probably Kale who makes that decision.
Kale does this and that and sticks his fingers in a lot of things that could do better without, but I doubt he picks captains. No self-respecting coach would allow that to happen. (I apologize if my sarcasm detector was not fully calibrated.)


Anyway, in case I came off too negative earlier, I'd like to re-emphasize that I think Erkka was a good call... under these circumstances. I'm not ecstatic, but not really disappointed either.

Those circumstances do stink, however. How is it possible that all of a sudden a coach just comes out, tells us he quits and leaves the Liitto looking for a new one with less than six months on the clock? Was it Jalonen, who didn't make it clear enough that he's done, or Kummola, who single-mindedly thought that Jalonen isn't done even when he was and wasn't even considering other options.

Either way, somebody dropped the ball, big time.

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11-09-2012, 01:51 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Kale does this and that and sticks his fingers in a lot of things that could do better without, but I doubt he picks captains. No self-respecting coach would allow that to happen. (I apologize if my sarcasm detector was not fully calibrated.)


Anyway, in case I came off too negative earlier, I'd like to re-emphasize that I think Erkka was a good call... under these circumstances. I'm not ecstatic, but not really disappointed either.

Those circumstances do stink, however. How is it possible that all of a sudden a coach just comes out, tells us he quits and leaves the Liitto looking for a new one with less than six months on the clock? Was it Jalonen, who didn't make it clear enough that he's done, or Kummola, who single-mindedly thought that Jalonen isn't done even when he was and wasn't even considering other options.

Either way, somebody dropped the ball, big time.
To be honest, I wish I was joking about Kale picking captains. However, I clearly recall Kale saying that Mikko would be captain after Saku several years ago. I have no link for an article or anything, but even on this board I have seen posts by other Finns who remember the same thing. Since Kale was the one to come out with it, I'm not sure if the head coach has much power over the decision. It shouldn't be up to Kale to make that decision, but it would seem that he's stuck his nose into that, too.

I'm guessing Kale was hoping Jalonen wouldn't leave until after Sochi, but he wasn't able to convince him to stay. It's obvious, IMO, that Westerlund wasn't the first choice for Kale (although that's what he claims), but K. Jalonen was no longer available when they really started looking for the next coach. So I'm blaming the liitto for this mess.

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11-09-2012, 03:35 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
To be honest, I wish I was joking about Kale picking captains. However, I clearly recall Kale saying that Mikko would be captain after Saku several years ago. I have no link for an article or anything, but even on this board I have seen posts by other Finns who remember the same thing.
Yeah, I remember him saying that too. And yes, while Kale seems to have his head so deep up his backside that he can count his own gallstones, I still interpreted him making the statement in same vein as I can claim that Rinne will be our starting goalie in Sochi; I'm not making an appointment, but simply stating the obvious.

After all, can you think a better captain for our beloved Lions at this moment than Mikko Koivu?

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11-09-2012, 07:50 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I'm guessing Kale was hoping Jalonen wouldn't leave until after Sochi, but he wasn't able to convince him to stay. It's obvious, IMO, that Westerlund wasn't the first choice for Kale (although that's what he claims), but K. Jalonen was no longer available when they really started looking for the next coach. So I'm blaming the liitto for this mess.
Why are you actually blaming the federation for this mess if this is how you think it went? I agree with you for the most part though. The way I see it is that Marjamäki will be the next head coach and it was decided much earlier. However they didn't want to go to Sochi with such a young coach. So they are giving Marjamäki the "Jalonen treatment" with only exception that they didn't come public this time with the fact that after one year Marjamäki takes over because of the bad reception it got last time. After this decision Westerlund was the only Finnish "high-caliber" coach who was ready to agree for a 1-year gig job.

I'm fine with the decision if this is how it's going to be. Watching Westerlund speak is like watching a paint dry and his hockey sometimes replicates his persona. I hope he remembers to take his aggressive hockey playbook from his toolbox with him too.

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11-09-2012, 10:21 PM
  #98
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Filppula - Koivu - Korpikoski
Jokinen - Granlund - Ruutu
Leino - Barkov - Bergenheim
Hartikainen - Lehtera - Joensuu
Filppula

Timonen - Lydman
Pitkanen - Vatanen
Maatta - Jarvinen
Niskala

Rinne
Rask
Lehtonen

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11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
  #99
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Why are you actually blaming the federation for this mess if this is how you think it went? I agree with you for the most part though. The way I see it is that Marjamäki will be the next head coach and it was decided much earlier. However they didn't want to go to Sochi with such a young coach. So they are giving Marjamäki the "Jalonen treatment" with only exception that they didn't come public this time with the fact that after one year Marjamäki takes over because of the bad reception it got last time. After this decision Westerlund was the only Finnish "high-caliber" coach who was ready to agree for a 1-year gig job.
Bad reception last time perhaps had more to do with Shedden. Also, contrary to "last time", seems like Westerlund has a real option to do a 2nd year, maybe depending on how ready Marjamäki feels like.

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11-10-2012, 09:18 AM
  #100
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Yeah, I remember him saying that too. And yes, while Kale seems to have his head so deep up his backside that he can count his own gallstones, I still interpreted him making the statement in same vein as I can claim that Rinne will be our starting goalie in Sochi; I'm not making an appointment, but simply stating the obvious.

After all, can you think a better captain for our beloved Lions at this moment than Mikko Koivu?
Your interpretation is certainly a possible one, but considering how early he gave that statement (I think it was in '07 or '08) and what kind of a guy Kale is, I wouldn't put anything past him. With that said, I believe that we couldn't possibly have a better captain than Mikko Koivu at this point. He's the best leader we've got and there's no one I'd choose over him for that position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPena View Post
Why are you actually blaming the federation for this mess if this is how you think it went? I agree with you for the most part though. The way I see it is that Marjamäki will be the next head coach and it was decided much earlier. However they didn't want to go to Sochi with such a young coach. So they are giving Marjamäki the "Jalonen treatment" with only exception that they didn't come public this time with the fact that after one year Marjamäki takes over because of the bad reception it got last time. After this decision Westerlund was the only Finnish "high-caliber" coach who was ready to agree for a 1-year gig job.

I'm fine with the decision if this is how it's going to be. Watching Westerlund speak is like watching a paint dry and his hockey sometimes replicates his persona. I hope he remembers to take his aggressive hockey playbook from his toolbox with him too.
I think Westerlund is the best possible choice at this point, but that they had to make a change of plans after they realized their #1 option was no longer available (because they waited too long to contact him). It's likely that it was always planned for Marjamäki to take over the team eventually, but like you said, they didn't want to go to Sochi with such an inexperienced coach.

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