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2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

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Old
11-08-2012, 01:41 PM
  #676
seafoam
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For the love of God get a deal done. I can't live with football once and week and basketball everyday.

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11-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
For the love of God get a deal done. I can't live with football once and week and basketball everyday.
what is this football you speak of ?

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11-08-2012, 02:13 PM
  #678
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Speaking of Football, I'll say that the lockout has made me appreciate football so much more.

I was never a fan beyond hoping the NY teams do well, but not really caring if they don't. But now I'm watching the Giants and Jets most most every sunday and it's been a lot of fun. Makes me wish I followed the sport forever. I guess it's not too late though.

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Old
11-08-2012, 02:16 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
Speaking of Football, I'll say that the lockout has made me appreciate football so much more.

I was never a fan beyond hoping the NY teams do well, but not really caring if they don't. But now I'm watching the Giants and Jets most most every sunday and it's been a lot of fun. Makes me wish I followed the sport forever. I guess it's not too late though.
Same with me. I've always watched all the Giants games but now I'm a huge fan of the sport in general. Can't get enough of it on Sundays.

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11-08-2012, 05:41 PM
  #680
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That moron Mike Francesca, who knows as much about hockey as I know about nuclear fission, claims his sources have told him that the NHL and the NHLPA are close to reaching an agreement. What a clown, him and his sources don't know squat.

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Old
11-08-2012, 05:59 PM
  #681
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Seriously this needs to get done. I am watching basketball

I cannot go the whole winter without hockey....

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Old
11-08-2012, 11:13 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
Speaking of Football, I'll say that the lockout has made me appreciate football so much more.

I was never a fan beyond hoping the NY teams do well, but not really caring if they don't. But now I'm watching the Giants and Jets most most every sunday and it's been a lot of fun. Makes me wish I followed the sport forever. I guess it's not too late though.
I think Football is purely a game of confusion. Not the actual gameplay but the idea of football. It's once a week and the majority of games are on Sunday so of course it gives you a good feeling, it's the weekend. Many people get together to watch the game because it happens in a time when the weather is cold and not many people are outside in most regions. It's a reason to drink beer in the afternoon. It's associated with Thanksgiving. I don't think Football as a game is at all interesting, but as a social event it tricks you in to thinking it's a great game. So many breaks and pauses gives you plenty of time to do shots, socialize, go to the bathroom. Whatever you need to do.

So I think you sure re-examine your actual thoughts on the game play lol...

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11-08-2012, 11:21 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I think Football is purely a game of confusion. Not the actual gameplay but the idea of football. It's once a week and the majority of games are on Sunday so of course it gives you a good feeling, it's the weekend. Many people get together to watch the game because it happens in a time when the weather is cold and not many people are outside in most regions. It's a reason to drink beer in the afternoon. It's associated with Thanksgiving. I don't think Football as a game is at all interesting, but as a social event it tricks you in to thinking it's a great game. So many breaks and pauses gives you plenty of time to do shots, socialize, go to the bathroom. Whatever you need to do.

So I think you sure re-examine your actual thoughts on the game play lol...
No, Football is amazing.

Its a high speed game of chess

/the end

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Old
11-08-2012, 11:46 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I think Football is purely a game of confusion. Not the actual gameplay but the idea of football. It's once a week and the majority of games are on Sunday so of course it gives you a good feeling, it's the weekend. Many people get together to watch the game because it happens in a time when the weather is cold and not many people are outside in most regions. It's a reason to drink beer in the afternoon. It's associated with Thanksgiving. I don't think Football as a game is at all interesting, but as a social event it tricks you in to thinking it's a great game. So many breaks and pauses gives you plenty of time to do shots, socialize, go to the bathroom. Whatever you need to do.

So I think you sure re-examine your actual thoughts on the game play lol...
I just don't agree with this at all....football is an awesome sport

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:34 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
No, Football is amazing.

Its a high speed game of chess

/the end
large men in tights jumping on one another playing with leather. Think about it.....the words "German Porn" come to mind.

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:57 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
Speaking of Football, I'll say that the lockout has made me appreciate football so much more.

I was never a fan beyond hoping the NY teams do well, but not really caring if they don't. But now I'm watching the Giants and Jets most most every sunday and it's been a lot of fun. Makes me wish I followed the sport forever. I guess it's not too late though.
I feel the same about college football lately. A newly found apreciation for it. Notre Dame being undefeated helps.

I'm on an amazing roll. NYI leaves nassau for Brooklyn, ND hasn't lost, Obama wins and repubs get destroyed, I never lost power in the storms. I should play Lotto as I'm smoking lucky lately. Life is good.

With all that I haven't missed the NHL at all.

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:27 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I think Football is purely a game of confusion. Not the actual gameplay but the idea of football. It's once a week and the majority of games are on Sunday so of course it gives you a good feeling, it's the weekend. Many people get together to watch the game because it happens in a time when the weather is cold and not many people are outside in most regions. It's a reason to drink beer in the afternoon. It's associated with Thanksgiving. I don't think Football as a game is at all interesting, but as a social event it tricks you in to thinking it's a great game. So many breaks and pauses gives you plenty of time to do shots, socialize, go to the bathroom. Whatever you need to do.

So I think you sure re-examine your actual thoughts on the game play lol...
Are you watching the same sport as everyone else...?

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:30 AM
  #688
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That moron Mike Francesca, who knows as much about hockey as I know about nuclear fission, claims his sources have told him that the NHL and the NHLPA are close to reaching an agreement. What a clown, him and his sources don't know squat.
Everybody knows that Mike Francesa has sources, and they are the sports executives at CBS and NBC. Insofar as the executives at the major networks have information, he has information.

If there's reason to believe those sources have it wrong, then fine. But let's not pretend he doesn't have them. Considering that NBC Sports carries the NHL, you can bet his sources have an interest in knowing what to expect. Doesn't mean they're right, of course.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:48 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
No, Football is amazing.

Its a high speed game of chess

/the end
Football is not even close to high speed.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:01 AM
  #690
scott99
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
I feel the same about college football lately. A newly found apreciation for it. Notre Dame being undefeated helps.

I'm on an amazing roll. NYI leaves nassau for Brooklyn, ND hasn't lost, Obama wins and repubs get destroyed, I never lost power in the storms. I should play Lotto as I'm smoking lucky lately. Life is good.

With all that I haven't missed the NHL at all.
Ditto, except I miss the NHL big time.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:06 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
I feel the same about college football lately. A newly found apreciation for it. Notre Dame being undefeated helps.

I'm on an amazing roll. NYI leaves nassau for Brooklyn, ND hasn't lost, Obama wins and repubs get destroyed, I never lost power in the storms. I should play Lotto as I'm smoking lucky lately. Life is good.

With all that I haven't missed the NHL at all.
Ummmm. One thing there is not so good for you, which will be demontrated over the next 4 years. Check your wallet then and revert back.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Everybody knows that Mike Francesa has sources, and they are the sports executives at CBS and NBC. Insofar as the executives at the major networks have information, he has information.

If there's reason to believe those sources have it wrong, then fine. But let's not pretend he doesn't have them. Considering that NBC Sports carries the NHL, you can bet his sources have an interest in knowing what to expect. Doesn't mean they're right, of course.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Francesa can barely spell NHL but I still hope his info is legit....

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:24 AM
  #693
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Francesa can barely spell NHL but I still hope his info is legit....
Well, his sources are network executives. Network executives had close working relationships with Bettman dating to Bettman's NBA days. So, they are 'legit' in the sense that they have connections. However, one must suspect that those executives are getting their info from NHL people. So, the NHL wants us to think that hockey is coming. It's not that hard to figure out.

In any case, this is out: http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=409136

The idea that the NHL wants a salary rollback *and* longer control over players is hard to bear. As I've asserted before, players should have the opportunity to opt-out of their current contracts.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:09 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Well, his sources are network executives. Network executives had close working relationships with Bettman dating to Bettman's NBA days. So, they are 'legit' in the sense that they have connections. However, one must suspect that those executives are getting their info from NHL people. So, the NHL wants us to think that hockey is coming. It's not that hard to figure out.

In any case, this is out: http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=409136

The idea that the NHL wants a salary rollback *and* longer control over players is hard to bear. As I've asserted before, players should have the opportunity to opt-out of their current contracts.

Cheers,

Dan-o
This would never have appeared on tsn's website if Fehr didn't want it to.

If he did it for negotiating leverage, and that pisses off Bettman, watch-out. That little man (I can say that will freak out and this could get worse.

I don't see why this was made public. I don't have an issue with the internal communication per se, but the fact it's PUBLIC makes a difference. And I don't like it.

It's okay for them to disagree on concessions, issues, parameters around the deal. But this public "internal" memo - not good.

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11-09-2012, 01:55 PM
  #695
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This would never have appeared on tsn's website if Fehr didn't want it to.
Redbull, that's just not good thinking. A memo goes to the players. That is, ALL the players. And their agents. You think it's hard to get one player or agent to forward it to tsn?

It would involve an incredible conspiracy, in fact, to keep any communication between Fehr and ALL the player ever stay secret.

Fehr has to assume that any communications between him and ALL of the players (as opposed some small committee) is practically public information. Of course it is intended for public consumption. There's no other way to communicate with the players.

All you're hitting upon is another structural advantage the owners have in negotiations. They, being a small club, can have secrecy. The players, being a large club attached to another club (the agents) can't have secrecy.

But, no, that's silly. There. Has. To. Be. Something. More. Sinister. Grr.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-09-2012, 02:45 PM
  #696
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Redbull, that's just not good thinking. A memo goes to the players. That is, ALL the players. And their agents. You think it's hard to get one player or agent to forward it to tsn?

It would involve an incredible conspiracy, in fact, to keep any communication between Fehr and ALL the player ever stay secret.

Fehr has to assume that any communications between him and ALL of the players (as opposed some small committee) is practically public information. Of course it is intended for public consumption. There's no other way to communicate with the players.

All you're hitting upon is another structural advantage the owners have in negotiations. They, being a small club, can have secrecy. The players, being a large club attached to another club (the agents) can't have secrecy.

But, no, that's silly. There. Has. To. Be. Something. More. Sinister. Grr.

Cheers,

Dan-o
I don't doubt that things have been "leaked" to tsn (and others) by the players in the past. But I also don't think it's a coincidence that as these "secret meetings" have started, the twitterverse has been uncharacteristically quiet. I also don't recall seeing any FULL message appearing on TSN, instead of maybe the odd comment or excerpt.

I don't think this qualifies as conspiracy at all, merely a strategic leak to the media.

I think there's a great deal of secrecy among the players. Even the vague, seemingly calculated comments by Alfredsson, Phillips, about the negotiations recently.

I just don't like this full message appearing on TSN, especially it being centred around how far apart they are and how much the players are still being asked to concede. Seems far too strategic when you consider all those factors.

Definitely a structural disadvantage on the players' side but even the owners had their Devellano incident.

Regardless, I still hope something gets done.

AND with this cast of former Isles, can we be more optimistic?


Present today were Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Johan Hedberg, Manny Malhotra, and Kevin Westgarth (David Backes was present for part of the day), as well as Mathieu Schneider, Joe Reekie, Steve Webb and Rob Zamuner.


Last edited by redbull: 11-09-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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11-09-2012, 03:06 PM
  #697
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I don't think this qualifies as conspiracy at all, merely a strategic leak to the media.
Then every communication to the players constitutes an intentional leak to the media. That's just silly.

I've been involved in contract negotiations as part of an organization with a diverse and large membership (though not a union) with a single entity before. It's par for the course that the single entity will accuse the diverse organization of leaks when that organization is merely communicating with its constituent members. The thing to do is to understand that those accusations aren't worth worrying about, because they are so cheap.

Basically, your position is that to act in good faith, a union has to not communicate with its members. Do you, by any chance, work for Wallmart?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-09-2012, 04:46 PM
  #698
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Then every communication to the players constitutes an intentional leak to the media. That's just silly.

I've been involved in contract negotiations as part of an organization with a diverse and large membership (though not a union) with a single entity before. It's par for the course that the single entity will accuse the diverse organization of leaks when that organization is merely communicating with its constituent members. The thing to do is to understand that those accusations aren't worth worrying about, because they are so cheap.

Basically, your position is that to act in good faith, a union has to not communicate with its members. Do you, by any chance, work for Wallmart?
Walmart - that place must have some cool boardroom stories

I'm saying this is the ONLY communication to the players that has made tsn.ca (among others) and I don't think that was an accident.

And to be clear, I'm also NOT suggesting that Bettman/owners have a problem with this....but if they DO have a problem with this "leaked" memo to tsn, then this is NOT a good sign for the players NOR the CBA negotiations.

I simply find it odd that there's been such secrecy over the past week, almost NOTHING said about meeting locations, subjects of discussion, progress, very vague commentary to the media by both parties - then BANG, a full internal memo appears on tsn.ca

This feels calculated. And if it is, I'm not sure it's a good thing for a settlement.

We shall see what happens from here on out. I'll be listening to this on my drive home....starting........now!

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11-09-2012, 05:30 PM
  #699
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I'm saying this is the ONLY communication to the players that has made tsn.ca (among others) and I don't think that was an accident.
Wrong. The other memo that came after the splitting off of negotiations was published by tsn as well as other news organizations. I can't find a tsn link, but here's usa today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-memo/1639335/

Quote:
And to be clear, I'm also NOT suggesting that Bettman/owners have a problem with this....but if they DO have a problem with this "leaked" memo to tsn, then this is NOT a good sign for the players NOR the CBA negotiations.
No, if they have a problem with it, it's either (i) bull**** or (ii) because the memo asserted falsehoods. If it is the latter, you can bet on a specific NHL response through the media.

Quote:
I simply find it odd that there's been such secrecy over the past week, almost NOTHING said about meeting locations, subjects of discussion, progress, very vague commentary to the media by both parties - then BANG, a full internal memo appears on tsn.ca
In other words, you think unions are odd. Because that's how they work - they've got a negotiating team, and that team needs to keep the membership appraised of the contents and state of negotiation. If they don't, morale crumbles, and the union splinters.

BTW, it's Friday. If you want to leak for strategic import, you do it any day but Friday. If you want to update your members on the workweek's negotiations, you do it on Friday.

It's just troubling to when one of the most more intelligent posters on this board tilts at windmills. Or even makes gestures at it.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:32 PM
  #700
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Is anyone else fed up to the point where they want to show the NHL that fans care? IF the lockout isn't resolved soon I really don't want to spend a single dollar going to a game next year, and this is coming from a guy that went to 15 games last season. I'm just sick and tired of them pushing the fans around like this.

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