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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:10 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I can agree, but I will also say that if the Leafs have success, that
25% will whittle down.
I don't think so. Many of those are Leaf haters.

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11-09-2012, 02:24 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
There are plenty of non white hockey fans in the GTA who come from first generation immigrant families, and there are plenty of OHL teams that are located in predominantly white towns who choose to relocte.

With so many entertainment options in a city like the GTA, the OHL isn't exactly on the top of the list even for a hardcore fan like myself.
You don't get call yourself "hardcore" and then talk about all the options you have that keep you away fom watching the next generation of NHL players. Hardcore hockey fans choose hockey first, it's kind of the definition of what being hardcore is.

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11-09-2012, 02:46 PM
  #153
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Man, I would freakin' LOVE to have a junior league down here. You guys don't realize how spoiled you are, being able to pick and choose from multiple elite leagues.

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11-09-2012, 03:24 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Man, I would freakin' LOVE to have a junior league down here. You guys don't realize how spoiled you are, being able to pick and choose from multiple elite leagues.
Hockey fans in the GTA absolutely take the OHL for granted.

It is the number one development league for NHL talent. It is the hockey equivalent of Division 1 NCAA Athletics, and yet hockey fans in Toronto just don't care.

It is an anomaly of Toronto though. It really is just because there is so much else to do in the city (and not specifically alternative hockey, or even alternative spectator sports, but just everything else that goes on in a world class city).

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11-09-2012, 03:49 PM
  #155
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Hockey fans in the GTA absolutely take the OHL for granted.

It is the number one development league for NHL talent. It is the hockey equivalent of Division 1 NCAA Athletics, and yet hockey fans in Toronto just don't care.

It is an anomaly of Toronto though. It really is just because there is so much else to do in the city (and not specifically alternative hockey, or even alternative spectator sports, but just everything else that goes on in a world class city).
I'd wager that half the hockey fans in the GTA don't even know what junior hockey is, unless their kids happen to be drafted to an OHL team.

If your allegation that there is just too much to do in Toronto is true, why do the Vancouver Giants draw so well? There is every bit as much to do in or near Vancouver during hockey season. In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.

Toronto doesn't support any hockey that isn't the Leafs, unless their kids are on the team. I'm not sure why anyone gets offended by that.

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11-09-2012, 03:53 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd wager that half the hockey fans in the GTA don't even know what junior hockey is, unless their kids happen to be drafted to an OHL team.
Nonsense, everyone knows what the OHL is even if they don't watch it.

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11-09-2012, 04:09 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
If your allegation that there is just too much to do in Toronto is true, why do the Vancouver Giants draw so well? There is every bit as much to do in or near Vancouver during hockey season. In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.
Oddly, the Giants attendance is a bit lower than where I thought it would be, given the lockout. Around 6200, give or take. Mind you, they are definitely in a re-building year, so that may sway the casual, hockey-starved Canuck fan from going if there's a good chance the Giants will be beaten soundly. These fans are easy to pick out, they're the ones complaining how bad the season is going and debating whether Don Hay should be fired.


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11-09-2012, 04:11 PM
  #158
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Isn't it more-so that Toronto is a Leafs town and not so much a hockey town (honest question)? Growing up on the prairies, most of the Leafs fans I knew, from Toronto or here, liked the Leafs but didn't really play hockey or much sports. It was more an identity thing.
Having been born and raised in Toronto I have come to that conclusion as well. It's not to say that we don't have a hardcore hockey community, but we have many, *many* people who absolutely love the Maple Leafs but don't seem to care about hockey outside of that one team.

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11-09-2012, 04:36 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by noobman View Post
Having been born and raised in Toronto I have come to that conclusion as well. It's not to say that we don't have a hardcore hockey community, but we have many, *many* people who absolutely love the Maple Leafs but don't seem to care about hockey outside of that one team.
I disagree to a point. I wouldn't say that it is a Leaf town. It is an NHL town. There are a high number of non Leaf fans who support a variety of other NHL teams. But there are many many Leaf fans who don't care about other hockey at all. But they are not true Leaf fans. They normally have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to Leafs and normally are not diehard until the playoffs.

Brampton was a horrible location. For anyone in York Region to go to the game you had to pay a ridiculous amount for the 407 with NO exit at the arena, or battle highway 7 in rushhour. Anywhere south of that is Mississauga and would support their own OHL team. Rexdale area was accessable but not really a hockey market. Southern Etobicoke was closer to Mississauga. Who wants to battle traffic leaving the city to go to an OHL game, when you can stay at home and watch NHL from the comfort of your own home. IT was a pain in the ass for me to get there. Eventhough they had $10 Thursday night tickets, it still wasn't worth it for me to sit in traffic.
Brampton demographics are not like other Canadian cities. It is a high percentage of non-hockey races. Races that don't care about hockey and if they do, it is the Leafs cuz it is a pro sports team. Lets be real. We aren't going to get Parjinder and his family to go to an OHL game.

Not to mention the proximity to the Hershey centre in Mississauga. AS per google maps they are 8 minute drive apart.


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11-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by noobman View Post
Having been born and raised in Toronto I have come to that conclusion as well. It's not to say that we don't have a hardcore hockey community, but we have many, *many* people who absolutely love the Maple Leafs but don't seem to care about hockey outside of that one team.
Out of curiosity, why is that? Is it like Yankees "fans" in baseball, where people are just reaching for the low-hanging fruit of sports-fan identity, or is it more specific to Toronto and the Leafs?

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11-09-2012, 05:09 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
You don't get call yourself "hardcore" and then talk about all the options you have that keep you away fom watching the next generation of NHL players. Hardcore hockey fans choose hockey first, it's kind of the definition of what being hardcore is.
Maybe I'm at a Leafs game paying $40 for a standing room ticket, or playing beer league, or watching at home on TV, or watching Rock em Sock em DVDs or looking up hockey discussion topics here on an iPhone in Europe, aka still choosing hockey, but not necessarily the Brampton Battalion? (On top of all the other things people do for fun thy aren't hockey related).

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11-09-2012, 05:24 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Out of curiosity, why is that? Is it like Yankees "fans" in baseball, where people are just reaching for the low-hanging fruit of sports-fan identity, or is it more specific to Toronto and the Leafs?
I don't really agree with that at all. I know plenty of people that relish in the Leafs woes and many hopped on whichever bandwagon while the getting was good, whether it be Montreal, Boston, Detroit, Pittsburgh etc. It's certainly not "cool" to be a leafs fan in Toronto the way it is to be a Yanks fan in NYC.

If you were to go around asking people in Toronto to name some OHL teams, people would say London, Kitchener, and Windsor because they're the best run, most successful organizations. Brampton was a ****** team in a location where you could count the number of white residents on one hand. The only people suprised that Bramptom failed road the short bus to school.

IMO, there are simply plenty of other hockey options besides watching poorly run GTA OHL teams. London is a city with 350,000-400,000 people and they have 9,100+ fans each game because they are a well run organization that ices an excellent product year in , year out. I can go watch AAA GTHL hockey all day for $5 and see future NHL'ers like Tavares, Gagner, and Stamkos if I want to.

There's just plenty of excellent hockey to be played in the GTA and none of the OHL franchises make a serious effort to gain support. Oh well, their loss.

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11-09-2012, 05:33 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
You need to look at a map. your comparisons are way off when comparing Toronto/Mississauga to Boston New York.
Corporate aside, i am going to say more than half of the attendance of at a Leaf game is from outside of the city of Toronto. More people live outside the city than in the city. Not to mention, that now over 50% of the city population of Toronto2.6 million are visible minority and are not necessarily hockey fans.

AS for four teams in the CHL that exist in NHL markets, you are wrong again.
I can name off lots. hmm. Brampton, Oshawa, Mississauga, Guelph, Plymouth, Windsor, Niagara, Broisband, Hull. Not to mention some just onthe outskirts like Barrie, Kitchener, Sarnia etc.

Of those four teams. They have CFL(can't remember if Ottawa does or not anymore), the Canucks have Abbotsford Heat and if toronto is within driving distance of another NHL team then so is Ottawa.
The comparison wasn't meant to be an accurate one. It was meant to show that two are not the same. At all. A person who lives in Mississauga doesn't live in Toronto. It's as simple as that.

And I said cities, not markets. Big difference. And you sort of reinforce my point. Guelph, Oshawa, Missussauga, Brampton, Oshawa, Sarnia, Barrie, Kitchener are all within driving distance. Do other cities have NBA or MLB teams? Nope. Do other cities have cities as close as Buffalo with NHL teams? Nope.

Toronto is the biggest market in Canada for hockey and pro sports franchises. One team leaving because its struggling to get attendance does not make the city a non-hockey market. That's stupid logic. Try again.

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11-09-2012, 05:39 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd wager that half the hockey fans in the GTA don't even know what junior hockey is, unless their kids happen to be drafted to an OHL team.

If your allegation that there is just too much to do in Toronto is true, why do the Vancouver Giants draw so well? There is every bit as much to do in or near Vancouver during hockey season. In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.

Toronto doesn't support any hockey that isn't the Leafs, unless their kids are on the team. I'm not sure why anyone gets offended by that.
I'd wager that would see the exact same thing in every NHL city.

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11-09-2012, 06:30 PM
  #165
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The only untapped hockey market that exists in the GTA is for paying ridiculous prices for the chronically incompetent Maple Leafs.

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11-09-2012, 06:46 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd wager that half the hockey fans in the GTA don't even know what junior hockey is, unless their kids happen to be drafted to an OHL team.

If your allegation that there is just too much to do in Toronto is true, why do the Vancouver Giants draw so well? There is every bit as much to do in or near Vancouver during hockey season. In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.

Toronto doesn't support any hockey that isn't the Leafs, unless their kids are on the team. I'm not sure why anyone gets offended by that.
There are the Raptors, who play concurrently. The Blue Jays don't directly compete, but from an overall business sense, they are after the same dollars. I think their presence makes a difference because now they become the economically reasonable sports options after the absurd prices of the NHL. MLB and NBA are what people are seeing on TV, so that is what is important.

You need to get far enough away from that to have a strong OHL fanbase. It is just the culture (for better or worse) of the area. Hell, I am as guilty as anyone. I grew up in Ajax and went to all of maybe seven or eight Generals games in my life. And zero Brampton, Mississauga or Toronto teams (though that is part of the problem. Who wants to endure Toronto 5-8 p.m gridlock to watch anything, nevermind hockey that isn't the Leafs).

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11-09-2012, 06:46 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.
I just have severe doubts that a city 1/3 of the size of Toronto, has
more to do. No way.

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11-09-2012, 06:49 PM
  #168
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The comparison wasn't meant to be an accurate one. It was meant to show that two are not the same. At all. A person who lives in Mississauga doesn't live in Toronto. It's as simple as that.

And I said cities, not markets. Big difference. And you sort of reinforce my point. Guelph, Oshawa, Missussauga, Brampton, Oshawa, Sarnia, Barrie, Kitchener are all within driving distance. Do other cities have NBA or MLB teams? Nope. Do other cities have cities as close as Buffalo with NHL teams? Nope.

Toronto is the biggest market in Canada for hockey and pro sports franchises. One team leaving because its struggling to get attendance does not make the city a non-hockey market. That's stupid logic. Try again.
The comparison was hyperbole at it;s best then. How do you compare Mississauga Toronto to NY Boston. Way off. Didn't make any sense at all. But you are right a person that lives in Mississauga does not live in the city of Toronto, but lives in the GTA which is the market. Mississauga is banking off of the city of Toronto for attendance figures. The same way Brampton would bank of York Region as well as South Simcoe, Caledon and Dufferin counties as well.

Toronto isn't really much closer to Buffalo as Ottawa is to Montreal.
I am not arguing Toronto being the biggest market.
But you did say on your post. that There are four teams in the entire CHL that exist in NHL markets.

Vancouver Giants, Calgary Hitman, Edmonton Oil Kings and the Ottawa 67's.
And I mentioned that there are more than four CHL teams in NHL markets. Those being Oshawa, Brampton, Miss, Niagara, Broisbond, Windsor, Plymouth, Guelph and just outside NHl markets in Sarnia, Barrie and Kitchener.
When a team is marketing a product, they don't look at the city, they look at the market. Is Glendale marketing to Glendale or Phoenix area.
Im on your side. I beleive Toronto is a hockey town, but MLB doesn't compete with hockey. Maybe overlapping, but baseball is still onthe backburner. There is a reason Toronto/Hamilton has all this. Population which no other region in Canada comes close to. So it all works out.

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11-09-2012, 06:56 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I just have severe doubts that a city 1/3 of the size of Toronto, has
more to do. No way.
Have you been to Vancouver? Las Vegas has a pretty small population but I'd bet you there is way more to do there than Toronto. This reminds me of Greg Giraldo's bit about New York City being the greatest city in the world. Well, how do you know that unless you've been to every city in the world?

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11-09-2012, 06:59 PM
  #170
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You have the Canucks, the Heat and the Giants. We have the Leafs, Raptors, Marlies, Steelheads, Generals and up until recently the Ice Dogs and Battalion within an hours drive of downtown. You can also throw in Hamilton and the Bulldogs as an entertainment option if you want. Also, didn't the Vancouver area lose the Chiliwack Bruins last year to Victoria? Let's face it, the CHL is low on the totem pole.


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11-09-2012, 07:06 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd wager that half the hockey fans in the GTA don't even know what junior hockey is, unless their kids happen to be drafted to an OHL team.

If your allegation that there is just too much to do in Toronto is true, why do the Vancouver Giants draw so well? There is every bit as much to do in or near Vancouver during hockey season. In fact, when you take into account the mountains, there's likely more to do in Vancouver than there is in Toronto.

Toronto doesn't support any hockey that isn't the Leafs, unless their kids are on the team. I'm not sure why anyone gets offended by that.
Well city itself, I would say Toronto has more, but if you want to include surrounding areas we have mountains too. Drive an hour and a half to Collingwood which is about the same distance that Whistler is from Vancouver. Not the greatest mountains, but they do. Not to mention beaches of Georgian Bay, Ontario and Erie. Been to the beaches around there. You have better mountains, Toronto has better beaches. Plus Niagara falls offers some pretty good entertainment. But like I said, if you want to keep it to cities, Toronto def. has more to offer.

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11-09-2012, 08:22 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Have you been to Vancouver? Las Vegas has a pretty small population but I'd bet you there is way more to do there than Toronto. This reminds me of Greg Giraldo's bit about New York City being the greatest city in the world. Well, how do you know that unless you've been to every city in the world?
I've been to Vancouver and Las Vegas.
I really don't think you can compare the 2 in the above line.

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11-09-2012, 08:33 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I just have severe doubts that a city 1/3 of the size of Toronto, has
more to do. No way.
Anyone that has been to both cities and says there's more to do in Vancouver is lying
Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Las Vegas has a pretty small population but I'd bet you there is way more to do there than Toronto.
lol

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11-09-2012, 08:36 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
I don't think so. Many of those are Leaf haters.
I'm saying that people who won't answer to being Leaf fans, or
don't want to ridiculed, or interested in a poor product, will come out
in huge numbers, if they ever become credible again.

It will be to such a degree that the 25% will shrink. Haters remain the
same, Leafs fans will increase.

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11-09-2012, 08:43 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I'm saying that people who won't answer to being Leaf fans, or
don't want to ridiculed, or interested in a poor product, will come out
in huge numbers, if they ever become credible again.

It will be to such a degree that the 25% will shrink. Haters remain the
same, Leafs fans will increase.
I was talking about true hockey fans though. When they increase in numbers those ovcasional fans aren't true fans. They are cheering cuz everyone else is.

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