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Brian Campbell vs Dion Phaneuf

View Poll Results: Which player is the better defenseman?
Brian Campbell 81 54.73%
Dion Phaneuf 67 45.27%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-07-2012, 07:06 PM
  #26
tututooter21
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Lol, Phaneuf, much better defensively and similar offensively, and better hitter by far

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:51 PM
  #27
Pheasant the peasant
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Phaneuf is 5 years younger, 5 inches taller, and over 500 thousand dollars cheaper. So that's a good place to start.

I would say that Campbell is easily the more skilled guy, and he is an efortless skater. But Phaneuf has lots of offensive talent too. And the difference is huge when it comes to physical play. Dion had 214 hits last season compared to 46 for Campbell. Now I know that hits are sometimes recorded a bit differently in different arenas. But that is over four and a half times the hits!

Combine that with the quality of competition and time on ice stats that MastuhNinks posted, and I don't see how it's not Phaneuf.

Edit: make that 6 years younger. May '79 vs April '85

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:13 PM
  #28
BudMovin*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
See my pic, No i'm not biased, Dion is equal or better in every aspect except skating.
Passing? Ability to be a power-play QB?

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:56 PM
  #29
Stick To Your Guns
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Leaf fans: Phaneuf
Other teams fans: Campbell

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Leaf fans: Phaneuf
Other teams fans: Campbell
no.

I actually see some leaf fans choosing campbell over phaneuf. Plus I checked the poll and at quick glance I see 10 non leafers vote for Phaneuf. Sometimes threads like these are home based but not this one entirely. If youre gonna troll leaf fans sir at least have a decent reason!

I try too!

j/k of course

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:59 AM
  #31
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I hate Phaneuf but it's gotta be him. The guy is severely underrated

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:01 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Leaf fans: Phaneuf
Other teams fans: Campbell
Ottawa Fans: Whoever is the Leafs player automatically loses.

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:05 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Leaf fans: Phaneuf
Other teams fans: Campbell
No, Phaneuf is better defensively and sliightly worse offensively however was iused in less offensive situations, this can be proven by just watching or statistically, which ever you choose to argue by...

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:58 PM
  #34
Fat Jughead
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Why are these 2 being compared? I can't think of 2 more opposite players lol!

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Old
11-12-2012, 01:06 PM
  #35
MastuhNinks
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Still waiting on an argument for Campbell being better defensively.

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Old
11-12-2012, 01:12 PM
  #36
Random Bruins Fan
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Interesting poll they are such different players but similar in caliber. I'd give the nod to Phaneuf.

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Old
11-12-2012, 01:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentleman Joe Corvo View Post
Why are these 2 being compared? I can't think of 2 more opposite players lol!
They may play differing styles but at the core of their games they are both top pairing offensive defenseman. So they are definitely comparable.

Similar to an Ovechkin vs Gaborik poll if you will.

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:39 AM
  #38
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Close but Campbell

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #39
Jeffrey Lebowski
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Campbell, for sure.

Are people seriously using "better hitter" as a reason to pick Phaneuf over Campbell? Oh you mean, when he actually hits someone and doesn't throw himself out of position? "Harder shot"? Oh you mean when he actually can hit the net and it isn't stopped by that goalie person?

Campbell is a better skater, a better passer, reads plays better, is better defensively and offensively than Phaneuf. That's not to say that Phaneuf isn't a great defenseman in his own right... but Campbell is just smarter and has more tools in his toolbox. I don't think too many people actually payed attention to Campbell other than his contract.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:04 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I hate Phaneuf but it's gotta be him. The guy is severely underrated
This. Campbell is good too. Phaneuf is better.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:56 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski View Post
Campbell, for sure.

Are people seriously using "better hitter" as a reason to pick Phaneuf over Campbell? Oh you mean, when he actually hits someone and doesn't throw himself out of position? "Harder shot"? Oh you mean when he actually can hit the net and it isn't stopped by that goalie person?

Campbell is a better skater, a better passer, reads plays better, is better defensively and offensively than Phaneuf. That's not to say that Phaneuf isn't a great defenseman in his own right... but Campbell is just smarter and has more tools in his toolbox. I don't think too many people actually payed attention to Campbell other than his contract.
No I'm pretty sure people are using this to pick Phaneuf over Campbell

Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Campbell is far better defensively?

Phaneuf:
Corsi Rel Qoc: 1.399 (1st on team and 10th in the league among defensemen)
QoC: 0.090 (1st on team and 3rd in the league among defensemen)
SH TOI/G: 2:30, 2nd on team by 8 seconds

Campbell:
Corsi Rel QoC: 0.755 (3rd on team and not in the top 50 among defensemen)
QoC: 0.026 (4th on team and not in the top 50 among defensemen)
SH TOI/G 1:16, 7th on the team, 1:39 below team leader

I guess Mike Weaver, Jason Garrison and Dmitry Kulikov must be black holes defensively, because that would be the only explanation for someone as good defensively as Campbell getting such easy minutes.

It's sad how underrated Phaneuf is defensively over here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheasant the peasant View Post
Phaneuf is 5 years younger, 5 inches taller, and over 500 thousand dollars cheaper. So that's a good place to start.

I would say that Campbell is easily the more skilled guy, and he is an efortless skater. But Phaneuf has lots of offensive talent too. And the difference is huge when it comes to physical play. Dion had 214 hits last season compared to 46 for Campbell. Now I know that hits are sometimes recorded a bit differently in different arenas. But that is over four and a half times the hits!

Combine that with the quality of competition and time on ice stats that MastuhNinks posted, and I don't see how it's not Phaneuf.

Edit: make that 6 years younger. May '79 vs April '85

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:30 AM
  #42
The Podium
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Still waiting for one rational or statistical argument that suggests why Campbell is better defensively? Seriously it was one of the reasons half the thread picked Campbell i just cant figure out how they came to that conclusion considering Campbell has been the most defensively sheltered #1D i have ever seen.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:35 AM
  #43
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How the heck is Brian Campbell winning this poll?

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:45 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
How the heck is Brian Campbell winning this poll?
Because Campbell is better defensively while putting up more points?

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Old
11-15-2012, 09:52 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Because Campbell is better defensively while putting up more points?
Phaneuf is better defensively than Campbell. Campbell doesn't even face the toughest competition and plays half the PK time Phaneuf does. The advanced stats show the difference too. I swear, people around here have a hard time getting past their obsolete views of players. Just cause Phaneuf was bad defensively 3 years ago doesn't mean he is now. He has his flaws but he's actually become quite competent defensively and the individual advanced stats prove it too.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:01 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Because Campbell is better defensively while putting up more points?
Please for the love of god give me one reason why you say that hes better defensively! There is no #1D in the league more sheltered than Campbell and he hasnt even played well in those sheltered situations

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:10 AM
  #47
Pheasant the peasant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Because Campbell is better defensively while putting up more points?
Phaneuf began his shifts in the offensive zone 50% of the time, compared to Campbell's 54%. Thats a pretty huge difference. For comparison Jake Gardiner, who had an insanely sheltered season according to most, started in the offensive zone 56% of the time.

So Campbell's percentage of offensive zone starts were closer to that of a sheltered rookie than to Phaneuf, and (as stated) had less quality competition. How exactly is he better defensively?

I'm not even trying to slag Campbell. I don't think any of the good things people are saying about him in this thread are wrong. He is a minute eating, smooth skating, soft handed D-man. But the problem here is people who think Dion is no better than he was in his last season in Calgary.

Phaneuf is a better defender.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:14 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick To Your Guns View Post
Leaf fans: Phaneuf
Other teams fans: Campbell
Not really though. As a Buffalo fan, I have fond memories of Campbell as a Sabre and there's no incentive for me to like any Maple Leaf players. Still voted for Phaneuf though. Campbell is better in certain areas, but Phaneuf brings a lot more to the table, IMO.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #49
NyQuil
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Tough call.

I never liked Campbell, I thought he was soft with the Sabres and not the kind of guy you want in the trenches.

But he had a good stint in Florida.

I'd probably go Phaneuf, but it is close.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:30 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Campbell is far better defensively?

Phaneuf:
Corsi Rel Qoc: 1.399 (1st on team and 10th in the league among defensemen)
QoC: 0.090 (1st on team and 3rd in the league among defensemen)
SH TOI/G: 2:30, 2nd on team by 8 seconds

Campbell:
Corsi Rel QoC: 0.755 (3rd on team and not in the top 50 among defensemen)
QoC: 0.026 (4th on team and not in the top 50 among defensemen)
SH TOI/G 1:16, 7th on the team, 1:39 below team leader

I guess Mike Weaver, Jason Garrison and Dmitry Kulikov must be black holes defensively, because that would be the only explanation for someone as good defensively as Campbell getting such easy minutes.

It's sad how underrated Phaneuf is defensively over here.
First off, I do agree that Phaneuf is better defensively. That said, I think those numbers are a little misleading. You can't point to the minutes a defenseman plays without addressing what his teammate situation is and how well he does in said minutes.

As far as teammates goes, it's clear that he and Gunnar are the only guys on that blueline who are remotely capable of shutting down other teams' top players. Gardiner and Liles are purely offensive defenseman (at the moment), and Komi, Franson, and Schenn are all third liners when they're even in the lineup. The Leafs were forced to give Phaneuf very tough minutes because there was really no alternative, not because he was excelling in them. And really, he wasn't excelling. His 2.80 GA ON/60 is pretty bad, even for players facing that level of competition (Campbell's, by comparison, was 1.87). Only Duncan Keith posted a worse GA ON/60 while facing a similar level of competition. Goaltending was surely a factor in this (as it was for Keith), but some of the blame lies with Phaneuf and his propensity for mistakes. I think on a team with Weaver and Garrison, two very underrated shutdown guys, he probably wouldn't be seeing top competition or top 2 PK time either. He'd likely be in the exact position Campbell was in.

As for the OP's question, I'm going with Campbell, but it's close. I think his advantage in playmaking, skating, and as a PP QB outweighs Phaneuf's better shot, physicality, and defensive play. Campbell's playmaking is truly elite, that's what pushes him over the top for me. Only Karlsson has him beat in that respect, IMO. Also, Phaneuf's physicality is somewhat of a negative for me, because he can be irresponsible with his physical play and really shoot himself in the foot. When you've got a defenseman registering over 200 hits per season, it's a safe bet that he's taking himself out of position chasing those hits. When his team is counting on him to carry the defensive load, Phaneuf needs to learn to dial down the hitting by being more selective. I think that would go a long way towards improving his defensive play.

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