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Off-season madness the 2nd: Jays get Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, Bonifacio

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Old
11-09-2012, 02:59 PM
  #26
NeverGoingToWin
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I did not realise he was so old. Scratch him off the list.

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11-09-2012, 03:01 PM
  #27
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
TSN article calling for the Jays to acquire Dickey

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=409141

I think that is batsh** insane personally.

The guy is 38, which doesn't fit with our needs. Knuckleballers have shown some decent success in the LA East (Wakefield) but he didn't tear it up or anything, he just ate a lot of average innings.

Ferguson points out: "Yes, Dickey is only 61-56 over his career - pretty pedestrian for someone commanding big bucks - and he is 38-years -old. However, over the last three seasons with the Mets he's 49-28"

He went 20-6 last year, which means that in the two seasons prior he was a combined 29-22, not exactly ace material considering what his price will likely be.

This whole article makes me so mad I don't even know why I linked it lol.
I wouldn't put too much stock into an article written by a man who puts that much value and validity into a pitcher's win\loss record. Probably the most nominal stat, for a pitcher, in the game.

I don't think AA would trade any valuable chips for a 38 year old, so I wouldn't be too worried.

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11-09-2012, 03:10 PM
  #28
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Makes it seem he might be OK with going into next season with Gose/Davis rotating in LF. SP is far more important. Though Hamilton would be nice...
or that OF is a dime a dozen position and you can get better value for cheaper later.

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11-09-2012, 03:13 PM
  #29
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Guys 38 years old for a knuckleballer isn't as old as it is for a regular pitcher. Some knuckleballers throw well into their 40's, at least the good ones do (I'm thinking Wakefield, Charlie Hough). I wouldn't be opposed to acquiring him.

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11-09-2012, 03:16 PM
  #30
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Stoeten breaks down some interesting things AA dropped.

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/1...meetings-wrap/

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #31
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or that OF is a dime a dozen position and you can get better value for cheaper later.
Bingo.

My choice for LF is Tyler Moore. If Bourn or Upton signs there to play CF, then he's definitely blocked in Washington. I try to get him if the asking price is not to steep. He's about to blow up.


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Old
11-09-2012, 03:32 PM
  #32
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I think he'd take a 5 year deal. Free agents are "asking" for all kinds of numbers; doesn't mean they can't be negotiated down. I still have a feeling that he'll be a blue jay.
A poster last night reminded me it's not that common for a pitcher on the market to get 5 + years. He's asking for 6 years, but he likely won't get 6 years.

I'm on the fence with Sanchez, 4 years with a mutual option for a 5th year seems more realistic. He's a very effective 2nd or 3rd pitcher in a rotation. But not an ace which we seriously need. If Sanchez and morrow are the jays top 2 starters it would give us a pretty strong rotation, but not even close to elite. If Morrow and Sanchez are our 2nd and 3rd starters in the rotation - the rotation is elite. Pretty big difference. My concern is if we give Sanchez 15 million a year - does this mean we can't trade for a legitimate number 1 ace through trade? - which in my opinion should be the ultimate goal.

5 years - 75 million would be a great signing if the 5th year was a club or mutual option. If he will only sign for 5 years with no club option on the 5th year It becomes a bigger risk. I wouldn't even consider 6 years.

I realize you gotta take risks, but a commitment that long for someone with limited experience in the AL, let alone AL east would be a hard call to make. I'm glad it's someone like AA making this type of decision.


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11-09-2012, 03:37 PM
  #33
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His career numbers aren't all that relevant since he only discovered the knuckled late. That pitch may save wear and tear on his arm so that he could have a few more effective years, but yeah - Niese is the Met to be targeting for this club.
I could have swore that R.A. Dickey was a knuckleballer long before he was even a big leaguer. Not only that, knuckleballers aren't aces...the pitch is completely unpredictable (short and long term).

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11-09-2012, 03:39 PM
  #34
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A poster last night reminded me it's not that common for a pitcher on the market to get 5 + years. He's asking for 6 years, but he likely won't get 6 years.

I'm on the fence with Sanchez, 4 years with a mutual option for a 5th year seems more realistic. He's a very effective 2nd or 3rd pitcher in a rotation. But not an ace which we seriously need. If Sanchez and morrow are the jays top 2 starters it would give us a pretty strong rotation, but not even close to elite. If Morrow and Sanchez are our 2nd and 3rd starters in the rotation - the rotation is elite. Pretty big difference. My concern is if we give Sanchez 15 million a year - is that we won't be able to trade for another top of the rotation starter - which in my opinion should be the ultimate goal.

5 years - 75 million would be a great signing if the 5th year was a club or mutual option. If he will only sign for 5 years with no club option on the 5th year It becomes a bigger risk. I wouldn't even consider 6 years.

I realize you gotta take risks, but a commitment that long for someone with limited experience in the AL, let alone AL east would be a hard call to make. I'm glad it's someone like AA making this type of decision.
If he wants 6, I'd do three with three option years. I'd make the 4th year vesting on him making 70 starts or more over the first three years. Years 5 and 6 I'd offer a mutual option.

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11-09-2012, 03:39 PM
  #35
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Bingo.

My choice for LF is Tyler Moore. If Bourn or Upton signs there to play CF, then he's definitely blocked in Washington. I try to get him if the asking price is not to steep. He's about to blow up.

To play LF or 1B? I'd plug him at 1B, he's a liability defensively in left field.

Legit plus-plus power.

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:42 PM
  #36
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Bingo.

My choice for LF is Tyler Moore. If Bourn or Upton signs there to play CF, then he's definitely blocked in Washington. I try to get him if the asking price is not to steep. He's about to blow up.
Willingham!!!!

Alvarez+ might get it done. I have a theory on Wilson. What if instead of the talking heads' idea of JPA being available, teams are interested in Mathis. Understanding that his value isn't going to be as high as Arencibia's (due to lack of offense), there still has to be a point where a quality backup who seems to be a high character player has value. What if one of our potential trade partners wants a Mathis?

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11-09-2012, 03:44 PM
  #37
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I could have swore that R.A. Dickey was a knuckleballer long before he was even a big leaguer. Not only that, knuckleballers aren't aces...the pitch is completely unpredictable (short and long term).

He was. He just wasnt throwing it much until recently.

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:49 PM
  #38
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Bingo.

My choice for LF is Tyler Moore. If Bourn or Upton signs there to play CF, then he's definitely blocked in Washington. I try to get him if the asking price is not to steep. He's about to blow up.
Interesting option right there. It all depends on how much Nats value him. He is bad defensively but makes sense as a 1B/DH. Has good power but a lot of swing and miss in his swing and doesn't walk a whole lot. Maybe a guy you could platoon Lind with and maybe even play LF in a pinch (I have a hard time giving him an everyday job not knowing what he can do/could be -- though even full time, he possibly can't be worse than Lind).

I want the Jays to go after a LH bat... possible a guy that could leadoff or be a 2 hole hitter. Somebody who can be play decent defense and get on base at a good clip (at least against RHP)... doesn't have to be much of a slugger.

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:54 PM
  #39
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Willingham!!!!

Alvarez+ might get it done. I have a theory on Wilson. What if instead of the talking heads' idea of JPA being available, teams are interested in Mathis. Understanding that his value isn't going to be as high as Arencibia's (due to lack of offense), there still has to be a point where a quality backup who seems to be a high character player has value. What if one of our potential trade partners wants a Mathis?
I wouldn't be interested in trading the little starting pitching we actually have. I think our bats are fine... just need a decent bat in LF who can get on base.

I am sure some teams like Mathis but I can't imagine he generates a whole lot of interest. He is a back-up, unless teams are dumb enough to think he can be an everybody starter which is quite ridiculous.

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:01 PM
  #40
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I wouldn't be interested in trading the little starting pitching we actually have. I think our bats are fine... just need a decent bat in LF who can get on base.

I am sure some teams like Mathis but I can't imagine he generates a whole lot of interest. He is a back-up, unless teams are dumb enough to think he can be an everybody starter which is quite ridiculous.
IMO, our five next year should be:

FA/Trade/Morrow
FA/Trade/Morrow
FA/Trade/Morrow
Romero
Happ

making Alvarez available.

Mathis has value. The question is how much. If you are a team like Minny, how much do you value a Mathis who can step in if Mauer gets hurt and who is good at handling pitchers.

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11-09-2012, 04:09 PM
  #41
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Willingham!!!!

Alvarez+ might get it done. I have a theory on Wilson. What if instead of the talking heads' idea of JPA being available, teams are interested in Mathis. Understanding that his value isn't going to be as high as Arencibia's (due to lack of offense), there still has to be a point where a quality backup who seems to be a high character player has value. What if one of our potential trade partners wants a Mathis?
I would like to hold on to Alvarez. He won't start the year in the rotation but he's a valuable guy to have in the sense if one of our starting 5 goes down we can call him up. Hopefully we can let him stay down in the minors for the first couple months though - like he should have last year.

Also I would trade Drabek before Alvarez. Some see the potential but if we can get a proven asset then you do it.

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:20 PM
  #42
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IMO, our five next year should be:

FA/Trade/Morrow
FA/Trade/Morrow
FA/Trade/Morrow
Romero
Happ

making Alvarez available.

Mathis has value. The question is how much. If you are a team like Minny, how much do you value a Mathis who can step in if Mauer gets hurt and who is good at handling pitchers.
What if one of those guys get hurt (which will happen at some point), who do you call up then? Chad Jenkins? Ugh. And more than likely, multiple starters will go down throughout the season.

Point is, Jays need depth, especially at starting pitching. They cannot rely on McGowan to be healthy and cannot count on Drabek/Hutchison contributing this season either.

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11-09-2012, 04:22 PM
  #43
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I would keep Alvarez for depth in AAA

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:24 PM
  #44
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Meanwhile, Anthopoulos says that he can promise free agent pitcher Carlos Villanueva the 30 starts that he is seeking, Davidi tweets. The GM said that the club has never doubted Villanueva's abilities, but has raised concerns about his durability in the past.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#7XePyjBYSbkTRJBY.99


thats a surprise
maybe its supposed to say "he can't promise"

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11-09-2012, 04:31 PM
  #45
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Meanwhile, Anthopoulos says that he can promise free agent pitcher Carlos Villanueva the 30 starts that he is seeking, Davidi tweets. The GM said that the club has never doubted Villanueva's abilities, but has raised concerns about his durability in the past.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#7XePyjBYSbkTRJBY.99


thats a surprise
maybe its supposed to say "he can't promise"
No,we would promise him 30 starts. AA doubts that Villanueva can actually make that many, but if he is healthy, they would be his (if we signed him).

We don't have to have faith in his ability to stay healthy to say that if he is healthy, he starts.

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11-09-2012, 04:33 PM
  #46
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we have lots of guys lining up for the 5th starter candidate it seems

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11-09-2012, 04:39 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Per Shi Davidi,

AA on 5 year Blue Jays limit on contracts: "There hasn't been any talk of going beyond it right now. You never say never, things can change."

AA on priorities: "It's a bit more of a wait and see approach with LF right now and being a little aggressive in terms of the rotation."
As much as AA tries to be honest as possible with media, I don't believe him.

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:39 PM
  #48
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Marisnick goes 3-3, with a triple today after hitting a HR yesterday and all of a sudden, he is hitting over .300. Gotta love small sample sizes.

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11-09-2012, 04:43 PM
  #49
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Meanwhile, Anthopoulos says that he can promise free agent pitcher Carlos Villanueva the 30 starts that he is seeking, Davidi tweets. The GM said that the club has never doubted Villanueva's abilities, but has raised concerns about his durability in the past.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#7XePyjBYSbkTRJBY.99


thats a surprise
maybe its supposed to say "he can't promise"
I think he means that he can promise CV 30 starts but don't know himself that he can do it or if he did, how well would be do? He doesn't have anything to base off the fact CV can make that many starts and post said numbers.

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11-09-2012, 04:46 PM
  #50
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Izturis hit just .211/.252/.258 at home in 2012, but those issues aren't new. Over the last three seasons, he's produced just a .218/.278/.284 line at home, while hitting .304/.368/.424 on the road.
http://www.faketeams.com/2012/11/9/3...onto-blue-jays

Just saw that in an interesting piece and uhh, woah. I knew that pitcher park hurt Izturis, but that much? He is totally going to love hitting in the Dome if that's the case.

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