HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Who is the Better PKer? Brian Boyle or Ryan Callahan?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-07-2012, 05:09 PM
  #26
Scimitars of Drizzt
New York Rangers!
 
Scimitars of Drizzt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
Yeah I'm going to have to go with Ryan Callahan on this one.

Size isn't everything on the PK. And just by saying that Boyle does faceoffs does not make him better at PK. I just think Callahan is more aggressive, quicker, and he makes the smarter plays with the puck.

Scimitars of Drizzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:26 PM
  #27
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
Yeah I'm going to have to go with Ryan Callahan on this one.

Size isn't everything on the PK. And just by saying that Boyle does faceoffs does not make him better at PK. I just think Callahan is more aggressive, quicker, and he makes the smarter plays with the puck.
Callahan also creates more offense shorthanded chances than Boyle...

Punxrocknyc19* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:29 PM
  #28
Scimitars of Drizzt
New York Rangers!
 
Scimitars of Drizzt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Callahan also creates more offense shorthanded chances than Boyle...
Yeah, this too. Just another reason why Callahan is better.

Scimitars of Drizzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 05:43 PM
  #29
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,487
vCash: 500
I think Cally is better. But that is not to say that Boyle does a bad job at PK'ing. He is well above average in this regard. Unfortunately, PK'ing is about the only thing Boyle is good at. He is not good at even strength.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 06:08 PM
  #30
Callagraves
Block shots
 
Callagraves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,371
vCash: 500
They're our 2 best for sure, but I'm going with Cally.

Faster, more aggresive, blocks as many shots with 2/3rds the size.

Callagraves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 08:10 PM
  #31
KreidertheGlider
MDZ for NYR Blueline
 
KreidertheGlider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 473
vCash: 500
Just because Boyle has the advantage in size doesn't mean you can scrap it. It's his best attribute. You can't take it away to prove your point in Cally's favor.....

To no one in particular

KreidertheGlider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 02:00 PM
  #32
Scimitars of Drizzt
New York Rangers!
 
Scimitars of Drizzt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KreidertheGlider View Post
Just because Boyle has the advantage in size doesn't mean you can scrap it. It's his best attribute. You can't take it away to prove your point in Cally's favor.....

To no one in particular
I don't think anybody is saying Boyle isn't as good because he has a bigger frame. Callahan just has many more attributes that make him better than Boyle; Boyle has an advantage in the sense that he is larger. And taking that into factor, Callahan is still better because of many other attributes that he has that have been discussed many times above.

Scimitars of Drizzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 02:10 PM
  #33
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,839
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
I don't think anybody is saying Boyle isn't as good because he has a bigger frame.
A couple certainly seem to be discounting his performance because of his size:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
Boyle's pretty damn good, too, but that's a lot because of his size, in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Faster, more aggresive, blocks as many shots with 2/3rds the size.

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 11:20 AM
  #34
Scimitars of Drizzt
New York Rangers!
 
Scimitars of Drizzt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
A couple certainly seem to be discounting his performance because of his size:
No, nobody is discounting his performance because of his size. One of those quotes is saying Boyle is good but because he is big. Nothing discounting his performance. Another is simply stating how Callahan is better because he is quicker, more aggressive and how he is just as good at shot-blocking even being much smaller. Which is true.

Scimitars of Drizzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #35
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,839
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
No, nobody is discounting his performance because of his size. One of those quotes is saying Boyle is good but because he is big. Nothing discounting his performance. Another is simply stating how Callahan is better because he is quicker, more aggressive and how he is just as good at shot-blocking even being much smaller. Which is true.
Sure, a literal reading may go something like that, but why mention it if that's not the intention?

If I said:

Callahan is a far better goal-scorer but he's an Aries.

or

Boyle blocks as many shots while eating double the amount of Cool Ranch Doritos as Callahan.

How would that be greeted?

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 05:01 PM
  #36
Scimitars of Drizzt
New York Rangers!
 
Scimitars of Drizzt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Sure, a literal reading may go something like that, but why mention it if that's not the intention?

If I said:

Callahan is a far better goal-scorer but he's an Aries.

or

Boyle blocks as many shots while eating double the amount of Cool Ranch Doritos as Callahan.

How would that be greeted?

I don't know where you're going with this, but I apologize if I upset you. I guess I interpreted it as the literal meaning.

Scimitars of Drizzt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 05:20 PM
  #37
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,839
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scimitars of Drizzt View Post
I don't know where you're going with this, but I apologize if I upset you. I guess I interpreted it as the literal meaning.
No don't worry you didn't upset me, I just see it differently than you.

We all know Boyle is big. That's not going to change. I've never heard anyone say that Gaborik is only good because his skill so why is it worth mentioning with Boyle and his size?

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #38
Blue Seat Spartan
Registered User
 
Blue Seat Spartan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Richmond County, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 652
vCash: 500
I have to say Ryan Callahan, AINEC.

He's quicker on his feet, tenacious with the stick, has good defensive instincts, can hold formation of the PK unit on the ice, and MOST IMPORTANTLY - is willing to pressure the opposition's PP point men or hunker down and block their shots before they reach the slot.

IIRC during a playoff game on NBC this Spring, I remember Pierre McGuire saying that Callahan's PK attributes most resembled one of the best PK'ers of his era: Guy Carbonneau. Positional differences aside (Carbonneau was also an elite checking center and dominant on faceoffs), Cally and Carbo share some common traits needed for a great PK specialist.

If we're comparing strictly wingers on the PK, Callahan is similar to Mike Keane (not the NYR mercenary during 1997-98, but the third-liner in his time with the Habs, Avs, and Stars with Stanley Cups during his stints with those three teams). Ironically, Keane & Carbonneau were linemates in Montreal and Dallas!

Point still stands, Callahan is the better PKer by a country mile. If Torts assigns Cally to a more suitable role on the team (third line forward who can pop in a few goals, while also being a PK specialist), Captain Callahan has an outside shot at being a Selke Trophy nominee during the next 3 years.

Blue Seat Spartan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 12:58 PM
  #39
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Ryan Callahan AINEC

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 02:36 PM
  #40
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,441
vCash: 500
Boyle, but not by a huge margin. With his size and wingspan he can shutdown huge portions of the ice without having to move very much. If he had a quicker first few steps, he'd be even better. Boyle really gets a raw deal around here.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 02:43 PM
  #41
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Boyle, but not by a huge margin. With his size and wingspan he can shutdown huge portions of the ice without having to move very much. If he had a quicker first few steps, he'd be even better. Boyle really gets a raw deal around here.
And yet I feel he is massively overrated both by Ranger fans and management (his contract). So, Boyle IMHO gets too much credit for someone who is just average on the defensive side of things and inept on the other side.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 02:43 PM
  #42
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Callahan. Both are great shot blockers, but Callahan has more speed and creates more offense short-handed. He's a very smart player and is always in the right place.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 04:01 PM
  #43
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
And yet I feel he is massively overrated both by Ranger fans and management (his contract). So, Boyle IMHO gets too much credit for someone who is just average on the defensive side of things and inept on the other side.
Really? Because I only ever see people crapping on him around here. He's also pretty moderately priced for a bottom-six center. Especially one who can kill penalties as well as he can.

For someone who is "just average" on the defensive side of things it's awfully strange that he's out there in every major defensive situation and spends most of his time matched up against the opposing team's top line.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
  #44
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Really? Because I only ever see people crapping on him around here. He's also pretty moderately priced for a bottom-six center. Especially one who can kill penalties as well as he can.

For someone who is "just average" on the defensive side of things it's awfully strange that he's out there in every major defensive situation and spends most of his time matched up against the opposing team's top line.
He's not moderately priced for a 4th line center which is what he should be. And yes it is strange to me that Torts has so much faith in a guy who fails too often in the dot, who gets knocked off the puck and his feet too easily for a guy his size, and who sees the ice as poorly as he does. I advocated Ani getting more responsibility in the D zone last year but he was often on the wing and his faceoff numbers weren't good either. Now that we have Halpern I am curious to see how those crucial times in the D zone are allocated. Anyway, Cally is the better pk player.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #45
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
He's not moderately priced for a 4th line center which is what he should be. And yes it is strange to me that Torts has so much faith in a guy who fails too often in the dot, who gets knocked off the puck and his feet too easily for a guy his size, and who sees the ice as poorly as he does. I advocated Ani getting more responsibility in the D zone last year but he was often on the wing and his faceoff numbers weren't good either. Now that we have Halpern I am curious to see how those crucial times in the D zone are allocated. Anyway, Cally is the better pk player.
If you think Brian Boyle is a 4th line center, than you have absurdly high expectations of what a 3rd line center should be -- expectations that likely will never be met in your lifetime.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:20 PM
  #46
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
He's not moderately priced for a 4th line center which is what he should be. And yes it is strange to me that Torts has so much faith in a guy who fails too often in the dot, who gets knocked off the puck and his feet too easily for a guy his size, and who sees the ice as poorly as he does. I advocated Ani getting more responsibility in the D zone last year but he was often on the wing and his faceoff numbers weren't good either. Now that we have Halpern I am curious to see how those crucial times in the D zone are allocated. Anyway, Cally is the better pk player.
Not sure how someone can "fail too often" and still be the best faceoff guy on our team by winning nearly 52% of his draws. Seems like more opinion than fact. Status quo when it comes to evaluating players around here.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:22 PM
  #47
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Not sure how someone can "fail too often" and still be the best faceoff guy on our team by winning nearly 52% of his draws. Seems like more opinion than fact. Status quo when it comes to evaluating players around here.
This guy has seen Boyle lose a few faceoffs - thats a FACT.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:34 PM
  #48
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,214
vCash: 500
Yeah, I get that Boyle isn't an offensive dynamo, but he isn't a black hole either. He is there to move the puck from the defensive end to the offensive end and create chances down low with his size. Playing him with Prust, while worthwhile defensively and for grit, was not a good offensive combination.

He is more than adequate for a 3rd line center.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:43 PM
  #49
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Yeah, I get that Boyle isn't an offensive dynamo, but he isn't a black hole either. He is there to move the puck from the defensive end to the offensive end and create chances down low with his size. Playing him with Prust, while worthwhile defensively and for grit, was not a good offensive combination.

He is more than adequate for a 3rd line center.
I have no doubt in my mind that Boyle can pot 15+ goals playing consistent even strength minutes with a couple of guys who aren't complete offensive black holes. What Boyle lacks severely is vision and the ability to distribute the puck - I dont think he'll ever get much better at that. Nonetheless, its more than atoned for with outstanding penalty kill and shutdown play. Hes a very very good 3rd line center for the way this team is currently constructed.

In a lot of ways, 3rd line center is one of the most interesting roles in hockey. Expectations can vary wildly from team to team and coach to coach. The people who hate Boyle seem to think we absolutely need a 3rd line center capable of 50+ points per season -- try finding that on any roster in the entire league. While the 3C can be what you make of it, the expectations for it are often absurd.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 03:59 PM
  #50
M Gaz
Au revoir Shosanna!
 
M Gaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
He's not moderately priced for a 4th line center which is what he should be. And yes it is strange to me that Torts has so much faith in a guy who fails too often in the dot, who gets knocked off the puck and his feet too easily for a guy his size, and who sees the ice as poorly as he does. I advocated Ani getting more responsibility in the D zone last year but he was often on the wing and his faceoff numbers weren't good either. Now that we have Halpern I am curious to see how those crucial times in the D zone are allocated. Anyway, Cally is the better pk player.
I want my 3rd line center to able to put up around 30 points a year and be good defensively. That's what we have in Boyle. Unless your ideal player is Jordan Staal playing behind Sid and Geno, then your expectations are too high.

M Gaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.