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Old
11-06-2012, 03:20 AM
  #776
Hockey Duckie
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Some say Kuroda. I want Joe Saunders back.

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11-06-2012, 12:24 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
Some say Kuroda. I want Joe Saunders back.
Why in gods name would you want that. He is a clearly below average starter at this point.

After Greinke, any starter worth getting, ie, paying close to what he's actually worth, will have to be had via trade. The FA market is bone dry, which of course means paying a highly inflated price to average to below average talent.

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11-06-2012, 02:37 PM
  #778
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Why in gods name would you want that. He is a clearly below average starter at this point.

After Greinke, any starter worth getting, ie, paying close to what he's actually worth, will have to be had via trade. The FA market is bone dry, which of course means paying a highly inflated price to average to below average talent.

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PlayerSalaryGSWLERA
Haren$15.53012134.33
Saunders$6289134.07

Saunders was dealt from Arizona to Baltimore so here's the split.
TeamGSWLERA
Arizona216104.22
Baltimore7333.63
Playoffs21o1.59

Joe Saunders is cheap. Joe Saunders is a lefty. Put Joe on a playoff team then his results improve. No one is really talking about Joe, and therefore, we have a good chance at getting a very good deal with him in hopes he likes the west coast as he's been playing there for the past 8 years. Also, Joe didn't fade last year, but got stronger as shown above. I'm talking about having a number 4 pitcher, not a number 1 or 2 in the starting rotation. And in the playoffs, you can go on a three man pitching rotation. Having a southpaw come in as a long reliever should one of the starters struggle is very valuable.

Joe's record with the Angels is 54 - 32 (62.8% winning percentage).
Dan's record with the Angels is 33 - 27 (55% winning percentage).

Joe would be a steal at $24/3 years, $8 million per year, considering the projected prices of the following pitchers:

Kuroda, RHP, $27.5 mil/2 ($13.75 mil per year)
Lohse, RHP, $40 mil/3 years ($13.3 mil per year)

Why would acquiring Joe on the cheap be very good for the org? Greinke. In order to retain his services here on the west coast it will cost a pretty penny or ten billions. Projected contract for Greinke is $130 mil/6 years ($21.6 mil per year).

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11-06-2012, 07:42 PM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
PlayerSalaryGSWLERA
Haren$15.53012134.33
Saunders$6289134.07

Saunders was dealt from Arizona to Baltimore so here's the split.
TeamGSWLERA
Arizona216104.22
Baltimore7333.63
Playoffs21o1.59

Joe Saunders is cheap. Joe Saunders is a lefty. Put Joe on a playoff team then his results improve. No one is really talking about Joe, and therefore, we have a good chance at getting a very good deal with him in hopes he likes the west coast as he's been playing there for the past 8 years. Also, Joe didn't fade last year, but got stronger as shown above. I'm talking about having a number 4 pitcher, not a number 1 or 2 in the starting rotation. And in the playoffs, you can go on a three man pitching rotation. Having a southpaw come in as a long reliever should one of the starters struggle is very valuable.

Joe's record with the Angels is 54 - 32 (62.8% winning percentage).
Dan's record with the Angels is 33 - 27 (55% winning percentage).

Joe would be a steal at $24/3 years, $8 million per year, considering the projected prices of the following pitchers:

Kuroda, RHP, $27.5 mil/2 ($13.75 mil per year)
Lohse, RHP, $40 mil/3 years ($13.3 mil per year)

Why would acquiring Joe on the cheap be very good for the org? Greinke. In order to retain his services here on the west coast it will cost a pretty penny or ten billions. Projected contract for Greinke is $130 mil/6 years ($21.6 mil per year).
How do you know Joe Saunders is cheap? Has he signed already?

Joe Saunders put up some ok era numbers in the national league, big whoop. His six starts or whatever for Baltimore doesn't mean much, it's a small sample size. On top of that, his peripherals still suck.

Saunders now is a worse version of what he was when he was here last: Fringe fastball, poor command, prone to home runs. Dipoto can do a whole lot better on the trade front than overpaying for that skill set, and don't be fooled, in this god awful FA class Joe Saunders will be overpaid.

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11-07-2012, 03:35 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
1. How do you know Joe Saunders is cheap? Has he signed already?

2. Joe Saunders put up some ok era numbers in the national league, big whoop. His six starts or whatever for Baltimore doesn't mean much, it's a small sample size. On top of that, his peripherals still suck.

3. Saunders now is a worse version of what he was when he was here last: Fringe fastball, poor command, prone to home runs. Dipoto can do a whole lot better on the trade front than overpaying for that skill set, and don't be fooled, in this god awful FA class Joe Saunders will be overpaid.
::: Head scratching ::: I numbered the paragraphs in the quotes to better respond to each.

1. Joe signed a one year, $6 million contract this past season.

2. I don't comprehend your "small sample size" reference. I listed a Joe vs Dan stats with the Angels. Unless you're saying the Angels are not part of the American conference.

Quote:
Joe's record with the Angels is 54 - 32 (62.8% winning percentage).
Dan's record with the Angels is 33 - 27 (55% winning percentage).
3. You bash on Joe despite the numbers shown in the stat that compares him to our $15.5 million dollar man Dan Haren that reveal Joe is better. Then you continue to bash him without giving out any actual solutions. I gave out two pitchers and their projected price range, both RHPs. I gave my own projected price range, and was generous in my projection, which would be a great deal for a #4 pitcher or #5 pitcher depending on Richards' work. And the reason why to go after Joe in order to afford an actual Ace.

I don't get it your response because it looks as though you didn't read anything i wrote besides Joe Saunders. I never stated he was an ace, but great at #4 in the bullpen because of his left hand. But your (negative) comment about Joe could be about Dan or Santana. Did you see what Joe did in his time with Baltimore and in the playoffs? Yeah, he looks terrible... for a number #4 starter. Unless you're comfortable with Jerome Williams as the #4/#5. Who else would you go after? BTW, Joe is just one pitcher and not my only choice.

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11-07-2012, 04:42 PM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
::: Head scratching ::: I numbered the paragraphs in the quotes to better respond to each.

1. Joe signed a one year, $6 million contract this past season.

2. I don't comprehend your "small sample size" reference. I listed a Joe vs Dan stats with the Angels. Unless you're saying the Angels are not part of the American conference.



3. You bash on Joe despite the numbers shown in the stat that compares him to our $15.5 million dollar man Dan Haren that reveal Joe is better. Then you continue to bash him without giving out any actual solutions. I gave out two pitchers and their projected price range, both RHPs. I gave my own projected price range, and was generous in my projection, which would be a great deal for a #4 pitcher or #5 pitcher depending on Richards' work. And the reason why to go after Joe in order to afford an actual Ace.

I don't get it your response because it looks as though you didn't read anything i wrote besides Joe Saunders. I never stated he was an ace, but great at #4 in the bullpen because of his left hand. But your (negative) comment about Joe could be about Dan or Santana. Did you see what Joe did in his time with Baltimore and in the playoffs? Yeah, he looks terrible... for a number #4 starter. Unless you're comfortable with Jerome Williams as the #4/#5. Who else would you go after? BTW, Joe is just one pitcher and not my only choice.
1) Why do I care what he made last season? This is a different market, one with far less pitching talent available. Supply and demand.

2) What does Dan Haren have to do with anything? I'm not getting why you are even bringing him up. Haren didn't come close to living up to what he was paid last year...so...what does that have to do with Joe Saunders? The small sample size was in response to his Baltimore numbers. Phil Coke had a great five game stretch as a starting pitcher last year too. So what.

3) I don't know why you are giving me winning percentage stats as if they are meaningful at all when it comes to pitchers. They aren't. At all.

4) Even if the Angels are only looking for a number four, they probably shouldn't be going after a guy that is going to get paid over his value. Buying at SP after Greinke in this market just isn't smart.

And by the way, even despite his terrible year, advanced stats show that Dan Haren was still a better pitcher, and in a much tougher division, in a much tougher league. So, yeah. Saunders no good.

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Old
11-07-2012, 07:07 PM
  #782
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Joe Saunders is a world class ****** bag. I know from personal experience that he is a terrible teammate and ******* off the field also.

Keep that ******* away from Anaheim.

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11-07-2012, 08:25 PM
  #783
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The problem, again, will be the bullpen. Have to shore it up or we will be having the same discussion next year... Just like last year when many people, including myself, said the same thing going in to last season.


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Old
11-08-2012, 09:05 PM
  #784
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Trout wins a silver slugger award tonight.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

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11-09-2012, 06:19 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Joe Saunders is a world class ****** bag. I know from personal experience that he is a terrible teammate and ******* off the field also.

Keep that ******* away from Anaheim.
How do you know that? Personal experience? What, are you a former MLB player?

... or did you just get snubbed by him one time and you now hate him with a passion, in typical fanboy style?

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11-09-2012, 06:28 PM
  #786
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I have no problem with Saunders personally. But he's just not that good.

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11-09-2012, 07:45 PM
  #787
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If we let Haren go and bring back Saunders...it will effectively be like trading back for him haha. Lupul/Pronger remake!

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:13 PM
  #788
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If we let Haren go and bring back Saunders...it will effectively be like trading back for him haha. Lupul/Pronger remake!
Too bad we gave up two good young pitchers in the process...

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11-10-2012, 12:40 AM
  #789
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Too bad we gave up two good young pitchers in the process...
Our current GM was the Arizona GM that made that trade.

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11-10-2012, 02:32 AM
  #790
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Our current GM was the Arizona GM that made that trade.
I know, it was Reagins who gave them up.

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11-10-2012, 04:22 PM
  #791
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I know, it was Reagins who gave them up.
It was also Reagins that fired our head scout that drafted Mike Trout, Mark Trumbo, Kendrys Morales, Jered Weaver, Kole Calhoun, and Nick Adenhart.

It was Reagins that decided to trade for the albatross of a contract named Vernon Wells instead of paying a little more for Adrian Beltre, which the Angels could use a gold glove at third and a much more difficult position to fill where a player can also hit. Vernon's picked up contract was $70 mil for four years ($17 million per year average). Beltre signed $96 million over six years ($16 million per year average). This was back when the team had Napoli and Rivera at the MLB level, Trumbo, Trout, and Calhoun in the minors. Stupid, stupid Reagins and his lack of foresight!

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11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
  #792
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Trout won AL ROY!

After the Gold Glove, I was worried.

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11-13-2012, 12:20 AM
  #793
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Trout won AL ROY!

After the Gold Glove, I was worried.
Were you trying to be facetious? Trout won unanimously. No contest. I just hope the meme that he's a rookie and should only qualify for ROY award with no other chance for another award.

Trout doesn't have a loud personality off the ball field. His teammates are laxed. We're on the west coast. We've already witness that someone with better credentials can actually lose a race to someone who's good at one thing, but all of his deficiencies are covered up by the media. LoL Did you know what Cabrera leads the AL in GIDP (got into double plays) 25 times?! A stat that will not be covered.

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11-13-2012, 02:24 AM
  #794
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Just taking a jab at the Gold Glove snub. I'm still butt hurt about it.

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11-13-2012, 12:04 PM
  #795
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Just taking a jab at the Gold Glove snub. I'm still butt hurt about it.
I thought I was going to write a short response, but it's now turning into a rant. This looks like it's going to be long. You have been warned. hahahahahhahahaha

I know. It's east coast bias. When a baseball commentator John Kruk says that Trout has one or two highlights on ESPN isn't enough, but needs to be done everyday, then you know it reveals ignorance. What's missing is looking at errors (the winner of the center field gold glove actually is the owner of the highest errors made of the nominees), the range (don't hate on Trout because he's so blazing fast that he makes difficult catches or out of range catches look so routine), and runs saved. If Bryce Harper had those stats in center field, then I bet he wins a Gold Glove unanimously.

Similarly, the bias is set in for the MVP. I hear triple crown, triple crown. That's simply hitting only. Now, what if Trout finished ahead of Cabrera in BA? or Josh Hamilton had two more HR's than Cabrera (recall Hamilton stopped hitting and catching balls when something went wrong with his vision)? Would that diminish the triple crown? Then I hear about, "Well, Cabrera's been doing this for years." And if you look at his previous years' stats, then you would notice that this year isn't as good as other years that Cabrera's had. It's eerily similar to the MVP race' bias on the Tigers making the playoffs despite having a worse record. But I digress.

The Triple Crown has been done several times, though not recently. It means having the best BA, RBI, and HRs stat that year. It may not be a career year, but for this particular season, Cabrera had luck on his side.

Now Trout put up some stats too: BA .326 (2nd overall in AL), 129 Runs (1st overall), 49 Stolen Bases (1st overall), and 30 HRs (13th overall, tied with Pujols and two behind Trumbo). The Triple Crown has been achieved 12 times already. Hitting above .325, stealing above 45 bases, and scoring at least 125 runs HAVE NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE.

Unless you follow the AL West, most pundits around the east coast neglect a huge part of the conversation that Trout is a lead off hitter. So they penalize Trout for not having so many RBI's compared to a player hitting third in the lineup before a power hitter named Prince Fielder. Do they realize that hitter's 1 and 2's job are to get on base so the number 3 and 4 hitters to knock them in? Do they also realize that leadoff hitters don't have anyone in front of them in the first inning of every game; meaning Trout had at least 140 innings where no one can ever be on base. Not only that, but your worst hitters in the line up are usually your number 7, 8, and 9 hitters. Those are the batters in front of Trout. Considering Trout is first overall in Runs, Trout did his job for his #3 and 4 hitters (Hunter, Pujols, Trumbo, or Morales).

MVP is supposed to represent best offense, defense, and importance to the team. Again, pundits will throw out the strawman of "well, if Trout didn't play, then the Angels will still be in third place." Trout came to the Angels when the Angels had the worst record in baseball and came up short to the playoffs, but still had a better record than the Tigers, another fact the pundits are overlooking. They only see playoff team, neglecting the fact that the Angels had a better record than the Tigers.

There's too much bias and not enough fact comparison. This goes for both the Gold Glove and MVP awards.

Okay... end rant. Sorry. I've been reading more and more articles on this and it simply aggravates me that people who want Cabrera to win choose selective facts instead of all facts.

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11-13-2012, 01:07 PM
  #796
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Don't worry about the rant, you're just putting to words what every rational baseball fan is thinking.

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11-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #797
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Dammit. There goes Torii. Wish he could've stayed, for just one more season.

At least he didn't go to Texas or the Dodgers.

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11-14-2012, 07:14 PM
  #798
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Really bummed about Torii, not sure how I feel about Bourjous being the starter in right now. What cheap utility guys that can play right are out there?

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11-14-2012, 07:46 PM
  #799
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I don't mind giving Bourjos a chance. You just can't replace Torii. He's an excellent fielder, he's a clutch hitter, a fan favorite, and he's been a mentor to the younger players, Trout especially.

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11-14-2012, 08:28 PM
  #800
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I might get flamed for this, but I've been hearing Melky Cabrera is not going to be offered long term/big money. Surely I don't expect nearly the same numbers he was putting up while on roids, but if the price is right he is a solid enough hitter.

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