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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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11-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #151
sipowicz
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Will the Jets relocation to the Central division finally be approved in all of this? Could they slide Nashville into the Southeast to replace the Jets? Will the Northeast division gain another team? Will the Pacific division lose a team?

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11-08-2012, 09:18 AM
  #152
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I have a good feeling about today.
I don't necessarily expect a deal to be announced today, but I think the momentum is moving in that direction.

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11-08-2012, 09:20 AM
  #153
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I'm sporting a Jets avatar and signature in hopes that this sends some good vibes. Make a deal, already.

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11-08-2012, 09:27 AM
  #154
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Third day in a row, gotta be good news. They must be getting close

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11-08-2012, 09:34 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Will the Jets relocation to the Central division finally be approved in all of this? Could they slide Nashville into the Southeast to replace the Jets? Will the Northeast division gain another team? Will the Pacific division lose a team?
I don't think shifting nashvill makes as much sense as it may appear to on the surface. I think they want to try and realign better to timezones (if their "big shake up" was any indication) and Nasvhille is (suprisingly) CST. I'd think moving Detroit or Columbus (both of which are EST) is more likely.

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11-08-2012, 09:36 AM
  #156
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All I hope for here is within the next 4-7 days they can strike a deal. That would leave exactly 2 weeks for training camp to take place and for teams to get things together, which would lead us to a Saturday December 1st season start date. A Saturday, the first of a month, Hockey Night In Canada... how perfect.

I think both sides want this done here (to a degree) given there IS a deal to be made and whether it's made this month or the season is cancelled, it WILL eventually be a deal involving the ins and outs of what we are hearing/they are discussing today - so, just buckle down, swallow your pride and get it done now.

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11-08-2012, 01:24 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Will the Jets relocation to the Central division finally be approved in all of this? Could they slide Nashville into the Southeast to replace the Jets? Will the Northeast division gain another team? Will the Pacific division lose a team?


I think Bettman mentioned that realignment would be dealt with during this CBA negotiation.

However, I think the Jets will be in the South East Division if there is a season in 2012-13.

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11-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #158
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I think Bettman mentioned that realignment would be dealt with during this CBA negotiation.

However, I think the Jets will be in the South East Division if there is a season in 2012-13.
I'm OK with that - another chance to grab a really strange banner for the MTS Centre. Imagine kids 20 years from now going to their first game and seeing it:

"SE Division Champs?!"
"Yes son: there have been great geological shifts in the recent past".


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11-08-2012, 01:39 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
I'm OK with that - another chance to grab a really strange banner for the MTS Centre. Imagine kids 20 years from now going to their first game and seeing it:

"SE Division Champs?!"
"Yes son: there have been great geological shifts in the recent past".

THis a thousand times, i want a SE divison champs banner for the "quirkiness" factor so bad. personally i think that would jsut be dynamite.

in othe rnews, the media types sure seem to be spinning this into "the" day for the establishment of a deal (not the day it gets done, but the day that establishes a deal is going to get done or that it isn't)

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11-08-2012, 02:55 PM
  #160
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Very little news again today... I think this is a positive sign. Is today the make it or break it day? I'm not sure... it could be but if they continue meeting for the next 4 or 5 days, it can only be seen as positive signs.

I'm just waiting to read or hear the 'agreement in principle' comment as that will be the hump we need to get over. Then the fun starts with getting all the info on the deal and getting a much needed season started!

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11-08-2012, 03:28 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Will the Jets relocation to the Central division finally be approved in all of this? Could they slide Nashville into the Southeast to replace the Jets? Will the Northeast division gain another team? Will the Pacific division lose a team?
the entire make up of the divisions is going to be done cause there is no simple solution otherwise.

the Jets playing in the central while the wild plays in the north west makes no sense.

Further switching the wild and Jets would then leave the avalanche as the only US team in a division.

etc etc etc

which is why they went with a radical new system.

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11-08-2012, 04:17 PM
  #162
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Our union just voted to settle on an agreement today... One can only assume the NHLPA will soon follow...

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11-08-2012, 05:49 PM
  #163
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Just heard the words constructive used to characterize to days talks. Another meeting tomorrow, we may finally be getting somewhere.

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11-08-2012, 07:10 PM
  #164
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I really believe that we will see an agreement very soon. I have been expecting a mid-late November agreement since almost day 1 of the lockout. I like this progress and I just do not at all understand this attitude that some think the season will be lost...this lockout does not compare at all to the last. Almost every week there is progress or meetings between the PA and NHL, last time you would go entire months were they wouldn't even pretend to speak...there is just no way we lose the season, at worst there will be a early January settlement with a 40-50 game schedule, IMO.

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11-09-2012, 12:33 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I really believe that we will see an agreement very soon. I have been expecting a mid-late November agreement since almost day 1 of the lockout. I like this progress and I just do not at all understand this attitude that some think the season will be lost...this lockout does not compare at all to the last. Almost every week there is progress or meetings between the PA and NHL, last time you would go entire months were they wouldn't even pretend to speak...there is just no way we lose the season, at worst there will be a early January settlement with a 40-50 game schedule, IMO.
Though i agree that both sides have too much to lose to cancel the season, and they aren't that far apart, my concern is with Donald Fehr and the stalling tactics to get a better deal.

I'm not sure they are making that much progress, but at least they are talking. That is encouraging.

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11-09-2012, 08:05 AM
  #166
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I am still optimistic for a December 1st season start date, but I won't lie when I say the recent tweets are worrisome.

Quote:
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Won't be surprising if NHL or PA walk away in next day or two, go public with their dissatisfaction with latest CBA talks.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
NHL and NHLPA go into Day 4 of negotiations still looking for some traction after 3 days, by all accounts, of mostly spinning their wheels.

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11-09-2012, 08:16 AM
  #167
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I am still optimistic for a December 1st season start date, but I won't lie when I say the recent tweets are worrisome.
Yup DD saying he thinks were in trouble as both sides have stopped moving.

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11-09-2012, 09:07 AM
  #168
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lawless said on the radio this morning that they have made really zero progress.

most of the media members that are in ny are flying back home today.

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11-09-2012, 09:16 AM
  #169
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I am still optimistic for a December 1st season start date, but I won't lie when I say the recent tweets are worrisome.
Throw me in the pessimist camp. Partly just my nature, but partly some of the info coming out. I think the forced 'quiet' is only there because Fehr realized how much damage the players were doing to themselves with their public comments. I think the original plan on the NHLPA side was to use social media to generate sympathy for the players position and it backfired horribly. Ergo the lack of any news; the NHL was fine with that already, so the NHLPA agreeing to radio silence wasn't much of a request.

My interpretation based on the multiple Business of Hockey threads pertaining to the lockout is that the players haven't yet reached a point where they are cracking as a whole. Many still believe they are entitled to a share larger than 50% and are insistent on the make whole provision and the $1.8B for this season. Dreger tweeted that they wanted that and most assumed Dreger neglected to indicate it was prorated for the number of games. That's logical but I bet Dreger's tweet was actually accurate - the players still expect $1.8B for a shortened season. I'll guess at their logic: the lockout isn't their fault so why should they lose any money.

I really, really hope I'm wrong and we get a 70 game season starting on December 1st but I wonder if we won't see some serious acrimony in the media later on today.

Where do I get a TNSE jersey?

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11-09-2012, 10:16 AM
  #170
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Quote:
Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
Sad 4 fans the only reason #NHL is even meeting #NHLPA 2day was so no one can accuse them of being too stubborn 2 meet. #stillworldsapart

I am really hoping they can make some ground today, if not... here we go again.

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11-09-2012, 03:00 PM
  #171
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I am really hoping they can make some ground today, if not... here we go again.
That is a wonderful quote by Kypreos.
If that is the reason they are meeting, people are just going to ***** about them wasting their time.

They may as well have had a meeting.

So, how much longer until the NHL cancels more games?
To what extent will that be?
Up to the all star game?
That may be a little far ahead, but until the new year would be plausible.

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11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
  #172
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Just a few scraps of news coming out, but enough to cobble together a post:
1)Sounds like the NHL has offered ~$211 million for 'make whole', which they are characterizing as "paying it all, with interest, by year 3". Based on my earlier (back of the envelope, very rough) calculations, that is more like half of the overall loss to existing contracts, but, whatever, half sounds fair to me...
2)Betttman wants 50/50 immediately, with its attendant impact on the cap, plus all the other restrictions on player contracts (UFA age, length, etc). That would be a big win for the owners, esp those of small market market teams. Fehr should have been actively negotiating on this latter front a long time ago instead of playing coy. It would have meant more to the players, long term.
3)Russo seems to think the players still want ALL their salary even with the inevitably shortened season. That is just plain dumb and the owners will never stand for it, because most can't afford to give away $ they have not made.
4)Although it is looking as if the Owners are making concessions, it seems to me they are still holding firm to their fundamental demands. The players are in a box, because, aside from the upper echelon, who will benefit from make whole, the rest have little upside to not settling (no that this is much different from last week or the week before).
5)Almost forgot to add, now Fehr is being accused of deliberately withholding information from the players. I doubt that is true. Twisting and misrepresenting complex issues to their naive little minds, to their detriment, to further his grandiose ends....maybe.

Meanwhile, the lockout clock is still ticking. $309 million lost, and counting...


Last edited by scelaton: 11-09-2012 at 07:24 PM. Reason: forgot #5
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11-09-2012, 07:27 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Just a few scraps of news coming out, but enough to cobble together a post:
1)Sounds like the NHL has offered ~$211 million for 'make whole', which they are characterizing as "paying it all, with interest, by year 3". Based on my earlier (back of the envelope, very rough) calculations, that is more like half of the overall loss to existing contracts, but, whatever, half sounds fair to me...
2)Betttman wants 50/50 immediately, with its attendant impact on the cap, plus all the other restrictions on player contracts (UFA age, length, etc). That is a big win for the owners, esp those of small market market teams. Fehr should have been actively negotiating on this front a long time ago instead of playing coy. It would have meant more to the players, long term.
3)Russo seems to think the players still want ALL their salary even with the inevitably shortened season. That is just plain dumb and the owners will never stand for it, because most can't afford to give away $ they have not made.
4)Although it is looking as if the Owners are making concessions, it seems to me they are still holding firm to their fundamental demands. The players are in a box, because, aside from the upper echelon, who will benefit from make whole, the rest have little upside to not settling (no that this is much different from last week or the week before).

Meanwhile, the lockout clock is still ticking. $309 million lost, and counting...
If the bolded is true that the players don't think make it whole or salaries are going to be pro-rated to the actual amount of games played (work they do) this year they are delusional or trolling? The natural extension of that position logically is that if they lose the entire season they will be ok because they will be demanding to be made whole and get paid anyways :loo ny:

No wonder they don't seem to be in any rush

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11-09-2012, 08:15 PM
  #174
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Where's the Boondocks Saints when you need them? Don't they kill criminals like this?

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11-09-2012, 08:57 PM
  #175
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These mofoshiznuts should have swallowed their pride months ago and met on a regular basis to get a deal done on time but I get how negs work. If they can't salvage a 60 game season then they are a bunch of nimrods. Lets start televising AHL, European or NCAA games so that I can at least see some good hockey.

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