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So who is bummed about the lockout? II

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Old
11-08-2012, 07:05 PM
  #326
SPMaximus
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hard choice, NHL in a month, or winning the draft lottery

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11-08-2012, 07:49 PM
  #327
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Honestly, its actually close for me.

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11-08-2012, 07:51 PM
  #328
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hard choice, NHL in a month, or winning the draft lottery
Who says you can't do both?

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11-08-2012, 07:52 PM
  #329
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Pittsburgh does.

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11-08-2012, 07:54 PM
  #330
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Pittsburgh does.
Yeah well Pittsburgh can kiss my butt.

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11-08-2012, 07:58 PM
  #331
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Is that a threat or a promise?

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11-08-2012, 08:14 PM
  #332
Joe Cool
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February 16, 2005 was the date when the last season was cancelled. DR was the GM that was commenting on this. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1992793

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11-09-2012, 09:12 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Joe Cool View Post
February 16, 2005 was the date when the last season was cancelled. DR was the GM that was commenting on this. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1992793
Quoted for relevance today:
Quote:
''By necessity we have to go back to linkage since no one knows what the damage to the sport will be,'' Bettman said.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:04 AM
  #334
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I'm pretty much over the NHL this year. A 50 game or less season is just dumb to me. I wouldn't even try to go to a game or watch nearly as much as usual. This is just such a tainted year for me and I have lost interest. I am looking forward to the draft,and hopefully getting Monahan and thats about it. **** you NHL & NHLPA. I would have dropped some good money on jerseys and tickets but NOO you guys had to go and **** it all up. The one year the Wild are legitimate again. Now our core is just one year older and key players are going to lose a good year of their career. I mean we aren't going to re-sign Backs, Cullen or PMB all who would have been key players for us in our run to and in the playoffs. **** you MOther ****ers

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:54 AM
  #335
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To expand on the conversation with the couple I know down in Chicago...

She works for an "image consulting" company and one of their clients is a sports agency.
He is the CIO of a small chain of banks.

The guy is the one that texted me the night before Havlat's free agency and said; "Enjoy Havlat *****."

She wouldn't respond to my texts last night regarding: "Dude. D.Fehr is ****ing killing us..."

Jeff, however, did... He sent me the following, this morning; "Kim is saying that D. and S. Fehr are not on the same page. Linkage major issue."

Again, this falls under what I label as "unreliable", since I didn't witness it myself. I guess that proves how much of an objective existentialist I truly am...

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11-09-2012, 10:59 AM
  #336
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...rk-to-be-done/

Fehr's letter to players after yesterdays meeting.

one thing that you can't blame the players hardline stance on is what the NHL is asking from them, they want a 50/50 split (less money for players) they want to chance the contract rules so players have less rights when it comes to getting to FA, which is all designed to reduce player pay.

i don't like the 28 rule to hit FA, odds of a guy being able to sign a deal that makes him a FA at 28 are going to be lowered with the new NHL rules,

he gets a 2 year ELC, signs a max to get to 25, then you hand him another max to get him to 30 before he can test FA, thats the age when players start trailing off and not being as productive and their value goes down.

As i fan i want to see the FA system be, 8 years of service or 27 ( a guy who plays as a rookie can hit FA at age 26) I know the NHL would scoff at this because it enables players to make more money, but as a fan it would be fantastic to have more free agents every year.

I wonder if NHL is going to give up on contracting reform (aside from maybe the max term, and redden clause) to get o a 50/50, i just don't think players are going to be up for giving up 7% of HRR Pie and Contracting rights and a pay reduction.

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11-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #337
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Dude... Pay reduction?

The NHL has basically taken the "make whole" provision entirely into their court. The fact that Fehr uses the term "so-called" before "make whole" in that letter jumps off the page at me.

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11-09-2012, 11:27 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Dude... Pay reduction?

The NHL has basically taken the "make whole" provision entirely into their court. The fact that Fehr uses the term "so-called" before "make whole" in that letter jumps off the page at me.
perhaps to clarify, by reducing HRR, reducing contracting rights players would get a smaller market thus a pay reduction, not on these contracts but on future ones.

what i mean to say is, take a rookies like Stammer/Karlsson RNH/Granlund and for future MacKinnon/McDavid just to name a few, with a different contracting structure that NHL wants guys who are coming up won't have the same market as guys before did.

really two reasons, one is smaller pie 50 rather then 57, but two is big payday deals won't be like they have been.

If there was a 5 year contact limit, do Parise/Suter make 98 Million dollars by age 40?

guestimate for Parise, 5 year deal at 7.5 AAV (5*7.5=37.5, 2nd deal won't be for that much, lets say 5*6.3AAV=31.5, 3rd retirement deal say a 2*5 (inflation, it would be a decade from now after all) so last deal at best what 10ish million.

so adding up the 37.5+31.5+10 we get 79 million, now this is all speculation and that number is vastly better then getting nothing, but by changing rules regarding FA and such NHL is trying to limit growth of player pay in the future, this assumes Parise is allowed to become a FA at his current age, if the new rules are in effect and he makes it there at age 30 he makes less.

i guess the term pay reduction may not the most applicable one, more something along the lines of

Pay Potential

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11-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #339
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I think you are vastly over stating a potential issue.

Pay Potential will remain the same, the difference in contracting structures may, indeed, impact that, however... There are plenty of examples of older players that performed well still getting "over-paid".

Brian Rolston comes to mind immediately.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:41 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I think you are vastly over stating a potential issue.

Pay Potential will remain the same, the difference in contracting structures may, indeed, impact that, however... There are plenty of examples of older players that performed well still getting "over-paid".

Brian Rolston comes to mind immediately.
the one smart decision riser made

just because players will get overpaid doesn't mean it wont affect everyone.

all i'm saying is, NHL may have to choose with is more important to them, getting all the contracting changes they want or a 50/50 split, seems like NHL is asking for too much in player concessions

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11-09-2012, 03:12 PM
  #341
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ftw, you're making a huge mistake with your "lower pay" issue. Aside from the switch to 50/50, very few players would be negatively affected by the so-called "pay reduction" you're concerned about and far more players would be positively affected. The players will receive the exact same total dollars no matter what, the only question is the distribution. If what you're concerned about actually happened, that money that isn't going to "Parise type deals" doesn't just disappear. So maybe RNH doesn't end up getting paid as much as he would have under the previous CBA. That money he doesn't make still goes to the players, just not to the elite few at the extreme upper end. This means those 3rd and 4th line grinders are likely to see a pay increase. Those 2nd liners or 2nd pairing defensemen are going to see an increase. There's far more players who would see a net benefit than there are players seeing a loss, which should mean players would like such a change.

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11-09-2012, 04:10 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
ftw, you're making a huge mistake with your "lower pay" issue. Aside from the switch to 50/50, very few players would be negatively affected by the so-called "pay reduction" you're concerned about and far more players would be positively affected. The players will receive the exact same total dollars no matter what, the only question is the distribution. If what you're concerned about actually happened, that money that isn't going to "Parise type deals" doesn't just disappear. So maybe RNH doesn't end up getting paid as much as he would have under the previous CBA. That money he doesn't make still goes to the players, just not to the elite few at the extreme upper end. This means those 3rd and 4th line grinders are likely to see a pay increase. Those 2nd liners or 2nd pairing defensemen are going to see an increase. There's far more players who would see a net benefit than there are players seeing a loss, which should mean players would like such a change.
Yeah because those players are all for sharing, true money is still there but first there will be at least 7% less from now out And two with elimination of the loophole there is going to be less cheat deals which circumvent the cap and allow guys that are elite to get more money then they will under a fixed term deal.

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11-09-2012, 04:34 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Yeah because those players are all for sharing, true money is still there but first there will be at least 7% less from now out And two with elimination of the loophole there is going to be less cheat deals which circumvent the cap and allow guys that are elite to get more money then they will under a fixed term deal.
But the "elite" guys don't make the decisions. The union is run by its leadership and by a majority. The majority of players are harmed by those cheat deals as when the league outspends the cap, their pay is clawed back via escrow. The PA complained about "players paying players" in the original make whole proposal, but this is a situation where the high end players are stealing from the rest of the PA by signing cap circumventing deals. Furthermore, when you consider that many of the players who could get such deals are already on them, there's even fewer players who are hurt by eliminating them. There's around maybe 20-30 players who are harmed by eliminating those contracts, but there's almost 700 players who benefit from it. It's simply not an issue the PA should even consider having a problem with.

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Old
11-09-2012, 06:01 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
But the "elite" guys don't make the decisions. The union is run by its leadership and by a majority. The majority of players are harmed by those cheat deals as when the league outspends the cap, their pay is clawed back via escrow. The PA complained about "players paying players" in the original make whole proposal, but this is a situation where the high end players are stealing from the rest of the PA by signing cap circumventing deals. Furthermore, when you consider that many of the players who could get such deals are already on them, there's even fewer players who are hurt by eliminating them. There's around maybe 20-30 players who are harmed by eliminating those contracts, but there's almost 700 players who benefit from it. It's simply not an issue the PA should even consider having a problem with.
Again my point is players may not be happy that 1 they are taking 7% less revenue and 2, they are giving up some of their contract rights that they got last time around. Also the more arbitration is delayed the less leverage a player has in getting the most they can.

I personally feel NHL will have to retain free agency age and time and not delay arbitration by a year I just don't see players taking this along with getting reduced share going forward

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Old
11-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #345
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Me no good math, but...doesn't this season being scrubbed cost the players more money than they'd have made up over call it a new six year deal with the %'s they want, and the "make whole" thing. and it keeps getting worse, and they damn well know they're eventually going to have to settle for something less than they're demanding...which makes this fight about ego (okay, call it "principle" if you want), which makes it stupid as fk.

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11-09-2012, 06:44 PM
  #346
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Russo may have broke a huge story if his info about PA not being informed by Fehr is true.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/178216921.html

I believe it, Russo doesn't mess around with bad info. I can't remember a time he has put out a story especially one as bold as this and it not be true.

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Old
11-09-2012, 06:49 PM
  #347
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cue Walsh putting on his tinfoil hat and calling Russo a puppet of the league

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Old
11-09-2012, 06:52 PM
  #348
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i heard a very interesting rumour about a literal yelling match between a high profile player and the Fehrs from a very credible source. i wish i could tell you. i now believe 100% there is a rift between players and PA heads, and not just the rank and file players but some big names.

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11-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #349
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hahahahaha omg...so PA is demanding players get paid full salary this year + 5% regardless of games played. This is ridiculous. go ahead and try to defend that one, FTW.

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11-09-2012, 07:28 PM
  #350
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hahahahaha omg...so PA is demanding players get paid full salary this year + 5% regardless of games played. This is ridiculous. go ahead and try to defend that one, FTW.
If that's the case, the players deserve to sit and lose a year of their careers. How would anyone believe that would be a sensible thing to propose at this point ?

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