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Top 20 Defensive Defensemen #18

View Poll Results: Who is the next best defesively
Coburn 12 11.54%
Garrison 7 6.73%
Timonen 6 5.77%
Karlsson 8 7.69%
Smid 5 4.81%
Salvador 0 0%
Klein 0 0%
Greene 0 0%
Tyutin 2 1.92%
Enstrom 6 5.77%
Klesla 2 1.92%
Beauchemin 4 3.85%
Bouwmeester 3 2.88%
Giordano 1 0.96%
Hamonic 4 3.85%
Kronwall 7 6.73%
Hedman 7 6.73%
Scuderi 9 8.65%
Gleason 2 1.92%
Sekera 2 1.92%
Subban 6 5.77%
Edler 1 0.96%
Phaneuf 3 2.88%
Hejda 0 0%
Ekman-Larsson 3 2.88%
Jackman 1 0.96%
Michalek 1 0.96%
Gunnarsson 1 0.96%
Bieksa 1 0.96%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-08-2012, 06:26 PM
  #1
Vankiller Whale
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Top 20 Defensive Defensemen #18

1) Zdeno Chara(73.89%)
2) Ryan Suter(32.00%)
3) Shea Weber(47.52%)
4) Alex Pietrangelo(20.71%)
5) Dan Hamhuis(34.31%)
6) Ryan McDonagh(21.95%)
7) Brent Seabrook(30.25%)
8) Josh Gorges(22.15%)
9) Willie Mitchell(16.03%), (66.67% in tiebreaker)
10) Dan Girardi(15.89%)
11) Karl Alzner(24.14%)
12) Marc Staal(28.36%)
13) Dennis Seidenberg(25.83%)
14) Marc-Edouard Vlasic(25.00%)
15) Duncan Keith(31.33%)
16) Erik Johnson(18.18%)
17) Drew Doughty(21.43%)

Rank them purely on their defensive play. Vote to add another below.

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Old
11-08-2012, 06:30 PM
  #2
Vankiller Whale
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Garrison for me. Guy was a rock in Florida, even before his offensive breakout.

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Old
11-08-2012, 06:48 PM
  #3
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I'm going to continue to vote for Victor Hedman until he gets the credit he deserves.

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Old
11-08-2012, 07:06 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I'm going to continue to vote for Victor Hedman until he gets the credit he deserves.


Hedman will get the credit he deserves.It's just not quite time yet.

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Old
11-08-2012, 07:35 PM
  #5
Hammer Time
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Scuderi. No accident that he was a top-4 defenceman on 2 different Cup winning teams.

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Old
11-08-2012, 08:18 PM
  #6
kmad
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Didn't see Enstrom on there. Change my vote to him. He's the guy who cleans up after Byfuglien - he deserves to be top 20.

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:56 AM
  #7
WalterHeisenberg
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Didn't see Enstrom on there. Change my vote to him. He's the guy who cleans up after Byfuglien - he deserves to be top 20.
Agreed, went with Enstrom as well.

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:07 AM
  #8
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Enstrom.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:57 AM
  #9
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Coburn

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Old
11-09-2012, 06:07 PM
  #10
Machinehead
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Scuderi again.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:09 PM
  #11
MAK19
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Erik Johnson is 16th???

BANG!!
that's the sound of my jaw hitting the floor.


I mean... really?

The guy isn't even top 60.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:27 PM
  #12
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
The guy isn't even top 60.
Sooo... how bout that list?

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:46 PM
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MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Sooo... how bout that list?
sigh... challenge accepted

not in order of goodness, but simply better than Johnson



Weber
Chara
Karlsson
Suter
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Mitchell
Scuderi
Hamhuis
Bieksa

Girardi
McDonagh
Staal
Vlasic
Seidenberg
Sekera
Myers
Subban
Kuba
Boychuk

Seabrook
Keith
Hjalmarsson
Shattenkirk
Smid
Timonen
Butler
Phaneuf
Tyutin
Nikitin

Gorges
Alzner
Hedman
Brewer
Gleason
Allen
Boyle
Klesla
Souray
Coburn

Gunnarsson
Giordano
Weaver
Garrison
Enstrom
Bogosian
Petry
Orpik
White
Ekman-Larsson

Hamonic
Spurgeon
Burns
Kronwall
Stuart
Klein
Jackman
Edler
Campbell
Phillips

MacDonald
Slavador
Fayne
Greene



phew... 65th by my count. Close.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:33 PM
  #14
MastuhNinks
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Phaneuf again.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #15
Vankiller Whale
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What did you base that list on?

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:16 PM
  #16
HavlatMach9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What did you base that list on?
Advanced statistics

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:24 PM
  #17
MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What did you base that list on?
What is anyone else basing Johnson being 16th on?


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-10-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
11-10-2012, 01:16 AM
  #18
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Scuderi then Hedman

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:19 AM
  #19
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
What is anyone else basing Johnson being 16th on?
Watching him play, presumably. What makes that list any more accurate?

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Old
11-10-2012, 08:00 AM
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MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Watching him play, presumably. What makes that list any more accurate?
because people are completely biased towards size, speed and physicality.

Most people are guilty of it. They think it automatically means a defenseman is good defensively.

What makes my list better is that I combine 'watching them play' with statistics. You know, actual results and objective information. Instead of 'oh, Karlsson is small and I saw him make one bad play, he's bad defensively'.


Most people watch games while also drinking beer. Most people are wowed by big hits and fast skating. They just don't notice the other stuff.

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:37 AM
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Lonewolfe2015
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I'm surprised you didn't put Cowen on your list too, I mean Phillips and Karlsson are better then EJ so Cowen must be as well.

Kudos to making the list, very rarely will anyone back up what they say. But I can't believe anyone would even pretend Spurgeon is better defensively than Erik Johnson. Within his own division there is only one player that can be marginally considered better defensively, Hamhuis. That's the class EJ is just under and mainly because of how Sacco uses him not because of his talent level.

If Sacco weren't relying on EJ to be the only offensive catalyst from the blueline, he'd be much more respected for his ability to mug people of the puck, shield them off with his big frame and skate it through the neutral zone untouched.

Unfortunately no one shows defensive highlights... but I'd recommend actually watching a couple games if this lockout ever goes away.

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Old
11-10-2012, 10:15 AM
  #22
MAK19
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm surprised you didn't put Cowen on your list too, I mean Phillips and Karlsson are better then EJ so Cowen must be as well.
This is EXACTLY what I mean by biased towards size, speed and physicality. EXACTLY. Cowen has all of that. But in 2011-12, Karlsson, Phillips and Kuba were all better defensively than Cowen. Without a doubt.

Cowen has terrific potential though, and if there was an NHL season right now he might better because of improvement over last season.

You think Cowen is the Senators best defensive D... that's so wrong, so how am I supposed to believe the rest of your post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Kudos to making the list, very rarely will anyone back up what they say. But I can't believe anyone would even pretend Spurgeon is better defensively than Erik Johnson. Within his own division there is only one player that can be marginally considered better defensively, Hamhuis. That's the class EJ is just under and mainly because of how Sacco uses him not because of his talent level.
Right there, automatically dismissing Spurgeon because Johnson is much bigger and a better skater.

In reality, Spurgeon is better.

Hamhuis is MILES ahead of Johnson. MILES. So is Smid. And Garrison.

In the same division, guys I would pick ahead of Johnson to be my shutdown D are: Hamhuis, Garrison, Bieksa, Edler, Butler, Smid, Petry, Spurgeon, and maybe even Gilbert who isn't even the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
If Sacco weren't relying on EJ to be the only offensive catalyst from the blueline, he'd be much more respected for his ability to mug people of the puck, shield them off with his big frame and skate it through the neutral zone untouched.

Unfortunately no one shows defensive highlights... but I'd recommend actually watching a couple games if this lockout ever goes away.
Johnson was on the ice for the most goals against per ice time on his team. Despite Hejda and O'Byrne getting the toughest matchups, and starting most the shifts in the defensive zone. Johnson like you said was used offensively, starting most his shift in the offensive zone and getting weaker matchups.

So why does he give up so many goals?

Maybe he's capable of doing what you described... but he's lacking in other areas. Like hockey sense.

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:29 PM
  #23
uncleben85
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Phaneuf again.
seriously, phaneuf is being greatly undervalued here

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Old
11-10-2012, 02:52 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
sigh... challenge accepted

not in order of goodness, but simply better than Johnson



Weber
Chara
Karlsson
Suter
Pietrangelo
Doughty
Mitchell
Scuderi
Hamhuis
Bieksa

Girardi
McDonagh
Staal
Vlasic
Seidenberg
Sekera
Myers
Subban
Kuba
Boychuk

Seabrook
Keith
Hjalmarsson
Shattenkirk
Smid
Timonen
Butler
Phaneuf
Tyutin
Nikitin

Gorges
Alzner
Hedman
Brewer
Gleason
Allen
Boyle
Klesla
Souray
Coburn

Gunnarsson
Giordano
Weaver
Garrison
Enstrom
Bogosian
Petry
Orpik
White
Ekman-Larsson

Hamonic
Spurgeon
Burns
Kronwall
Stuart
Klein
Jackman
Edler
Campbell
Phillips

MacDonald
Slavador
Fayne
Greene



phew... 65th by my count. Close.
Dam this guy is good.

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:44 PM
  #25
Elever
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Scuderi is 2nd in voting but I think that's a bit skewed due to a good playoff performance. Has been meh lately outside of that. I also don't understand arguing about Erik Johnson when Drew Doughty outside of the playoffs was even weaker defensively. Anyways I like the top 10, maybe McDonagh and Gorges are a little overrated there and have to prove a bit more. Coburn atm seems like the toughest dman to play against from the remaining ones, Ekman-Larsson might end up being the one though or Subban if he becomes more consistent. Jason Garrison has 7 votes and he's a decent all-round dman but not tough to play against imo

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