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Off-season madness the 2nd: Jays get Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, Bonifacio

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:55 PM
  #51
Diamond Joe Quimby
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To play LF or 1B? I'd plug him at 1B, he's a liability defensively in left field.

Legit plus-plus power.
Last season was his first in the outfield. His routes improved, and he's a good athlete. He's not like Eric Thames in the sense that he's completely lost out there. And keep in mind, the Jays tried Edwin Encarnacion in LF last year, so I'm not sure they put too high a premium on LF defense. Long term, he can play 1B and DH. Dude is gonna be a player.

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11-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #52
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Marisnick goes 3-3, with a triple today after hitting a HR yesterday and all of a sudden, he is hitting over .300. Gotta love small sample sizes.
Hmm, I know someone that has crow to eat.

Kevin Pillar started out as a platoon player, but he's taken advantage. .907ops, .428obp. Only 1 extra base hit in 11 games but he's got 7 swipes.

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11-09-2012, 04:59 PM
  #53
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Marisnick goes 3-3, with a triple today after hitting a HR yesterday and all of a sudden, he is hitting over .300. Gotta love small sample sizes.
Man. Looks like he got used to those swing adjustments.

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11-09-2012, 05:08 PM
  #54
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we have lots of guys lining up for the 5th starter candidate it seems
Who?

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11-09-2012, 05:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
As dumb as it is, the spectre of living in another country, even one as near-identical to the US as Canada is, scares off some players. Multiple players and ex-players, including Zaun & Dirk Hayhurst, have said that they known lots of guys who have had this weird irrational resistance to the idea of playing in Canada because "it's another country" even though they don't know a thing about the place. We can sell the idea of any Canadian city being beautiful and multi-cultural and jam-packed with stuff to do, but the fact that there's a border to cross freaks some people right the **** out. Vancouver had the same problem with the NBA (and not always because of the weather. Lots of guys were brought in during summer FA period and pre-draft workouts), as do the Raptors now. It also doesn't help that you have people like Chris Bosh talking about how different it is and whining about not having ESPN up here, or Chipper Jones, who said of Toronto (during the WBC games that were held there):




Which is an absolutely asinine statement to make.

It may be stupid and backward and wrong-headed, but it appears to be how things work. Now if you can get guys here, they often end up loving it (though not always. I'm looking at you, Antonio Davis), but it's that initial resistance that is the biggest hurdle.

And Atlanta is suuuuch a great city. Screw off Chipper.

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11-09-2012, 05:10 PM
  #56
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Who?
alvarez happ villanueva(if he wants to come back) hutchinson(when he's healthy) ... laffey if he wants to come back.....cecil could in a pinch
try to get that 6 inning quality start hehe

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Old
11-09-2012, 05:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
I wouldn't put too much stock into an article written by a man who puts that much value and validity into a pitcher's win\loss record. Probably the most nominal stat, for a pitcher, in the game.

I don't think AA would trade any valuable chips for a 38 year old, so I wouldn't be too worried.
Are you seriously saying Dickey's wins are inflated from being on such an amazing team? Really?

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11-09-2012, 05:19 PM
  #58
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wilner is gearing up for an escobar trade:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...20the%20desert

The signing of Izturis is especially key, because of the flexibility it gives the Blue Jays in dangling a shortstop in trade talks over the next couple of months. The Blue Jays seem bound and determined to start Adeiny Hechavarria in Buffalo next season, to the extent that they wouldn’t have felt comfortable trading Yunel Escobar if they hadn’t signed Izturis (once Mike Aviles was shipped to Cleveland).

and on those 15 mil a yr players ?

In his final-day briefing with a smaller-than-usual assemblage --- Anthopoulos said not only can the Blue Jays take on salary, but they’ve "been able to open it up a little bit more to talk about players (who) may not have been a fit in the past", adding that the Jays can accommodate a free agent who is looking for a contract with an average annual value in the neighbourhood of $15 million.
In his final-day briefing with a smaller-than-usual assemblage -- thoroughly dominated by [/B]your favourite Sportsnet personalities -- Anthopoulos said not only can the Blue Jays take on salary, but they’ve "been able to open it up a little bit more to talk about players (who) may not have been a fit in the past", adding that the Jays can accommodate a free agent who is looking for a contract with an average annual value in the neighbourhood of $15 million.
Those two things, of course, put the Blue Jays squarely into the battle for the second tier of free agent starting pitchers, which includes everybody not named Zack Greinke.

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11-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #59
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Are you seriously saying Dickey's wins are inflated from being on such an amazing team? Really?
Do you really still use wins as a paramount way of evaluating a pitchers skill?

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11-09-2012, 06:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
wilner is gearing up for an escobar trade:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...20the%20desert

The signing of Izturis is especially key, because of the flexibility it gives the Blue Jays in dangling a shortstop in trade talks over the next couple of months. The Blue Jays seem bound and determined to start Adeiny Hechavarria in Buffalo next season, to the extent that they wouldn’t have felt comfortable trading Yunel Escobar if they hadn’t signed Izturis (once Mike Aviles was shipped to Cleveland)
That doesn't make sense, Izturis at 2B is a solid-above average defender, and at 3rd he's passable but still below-average, at SS he's just plain poor...

The only way Yunel is traded, is if AA feels Hech is ready to play everyday.

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11-09-2012, 06:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
Id consider Dickey for a mid rotation pitcher but not as our ace.
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
TSN article calling for the Jays to acquire Dickey

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=409141

I think that is batsh** insane personally.

The guy is 38, which doesn't fit with our needs. Knuckleballers have shown some decent success in the LA East (Wakefield) but he didn't tear it up or anything, he just ate a lot of average innings.

Ferguson points out: "Yes, Dickey is only 61-56 over his career - pretty pedestrian for someone commanding big bucks - and he is 38-years -old. However, over the last three seasons with the Mets he's 49-28"

He went 20-6 last year, which means that in the two seasons prior he was a combined 29-22, not exactly ace material considering what his price will likely be.

This whole article makes me so mad I don't even know why I linked it lol.
You two are absolutely clueless if you don't think R.A. Dickey is an ace. The fact that he dominates with a knuckle-ball (which causes no wear and tear on the arm) makes him even more attractive, 38 or not.

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11-09-2012, 06:37 PM
  #62
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Are you seriously saying Dickey's wins are inflated from being on such an amazing team? Really?
No, he is saying that wins are a team stat, and not indicative of individual performance...

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11-09-2012, 06:39 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
wilner is gearing up for an escobar trade:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...20the%20desert

The signing of Izturis is especially key, because of the flexibility it gives the Blue Jays in dangling a shortstop in trade talks over the next couple of months. The Blue Jays seem bound and determined to start Adeiny Hechavarria in Buffalo next season, to the extent that they wouldn’t have felt comfortable trading Yunel Escobar if they hadn’t signed Izturis (once Mike Aviles was shipped to Cleveland)
Good, Wilner is never right.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #64
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Are you seriously saying Dickey's wins are inflated from being on such an amazing team? Really?
No. It's just that wins are a really, really dumb stat on which to measure the value of a pitcher. The problem is that any pitcher, even a good or great one, can't actually win you the game. They can only not lose it.

Well, OK, technically an NL pitcher could win you the game, but you know what I'm getting at. Winning is a team thing that is largely at the feet of the offence. A pitcher gets wins because he keeps his team in the game enough for the offence to put up the necessary runs. So wins on a pitcher's record are a reflection of the team more than they are of the pitcher himself.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:40 PM
  #65
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Brett Cecil. 15 game winner.

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Old
11-09-2012, 07:44 PM
  #66
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Brett Cecil. 15 game winner.
Yeah, that was it. Litsch won 13 in 2008. Either way, they kinda prove the point that wins aren't an especially reliable measuring stick. Nice to have the wins, but not in themselves indicative of the pitcher's performance.

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11-09-2012, 08:16 PM
  #67
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jake marisnick goes 3 for 3 today with a triple, 2 runs scored and 2 RBI's

is getting better and more comfortable. told u guys he just needed to get comfortable

breakout season next season

where are the haters now?

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11-09-2012, 08:40 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
jake marisnick goes 3 for 3 today with a triple, 2 runs scored and 2 RBI's

is getting better and more comfortable. told u guys he just needed to get comfortable

breakout season next season

where are the haters now?
The only hater was Freebird, and he hates everything.

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11-09-2012, 08:41 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
jake marisnick goes 3 for 3 today with a triple, 2 runs scored and 2 RBI's

is getting better and more comfortable. told u guys he just needed to get comfortable

breakout season next season

where are the haters now?
Small sample sizes work both ways...I'm a huge Marisnick fan, but you can't get too excited over a few games. I think he might breakout this year as well, btw.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:42 PM
  #70
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Yeah, that was it. Litsch won 13 in 2008. Either way, they kinda prove the point that wins aren't an especially reliable measuring stick. Nice to have the wins, but not in themselves indicative of the pitcher's performance.
I remember Litch that year. **** he was good. Not overpowering but could really paint the corners.

Then he crashed back to earth.

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11-09-2012, 08:43 PM
  #71
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The only hater was Freebird, and he hates everything.



oh yeah, how can I forget freebird

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11-09-2012, 08:48 PM
  #72
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Quote:
-- The Blue Jays are willing to move one of the young players off their roster to get starting pitching. "Absolutely. We’d have to be open to that," said Anthopoulos. While he didn’t go into names, classified within that group would be catcher J.P. Arencibia, centre-fielder Colby Rasmus, third baseman Brett Lawrie (although that’s highly doubtful), and shortstop Yunel Escobar, who is much easier to move after Thursday’s signing of infielder Maicer Izturis.
Uhh, keep Yunel and Lawrie. Try to keep Colby for now (value is low and I don't think Gose is ready). JPA makes sense to trade. Value is pretty good, under control, making basically nothing and overall, a decent catcher with legit power -- there are plenty of teams that will value him a lot. d'Arnaud is also ready IMO.

Quote:
-- It’s not the money, it’s the years that would deter the Blue Jays from signing someone like free agent right-hander Anibal Sanchez, who is reportedly seeking something in the range of $90 million (all figures US) over six years. Speaking in general terms and not specifically about Sanchez, Anthopoulos said: "We could accommodate that type of AAV (annual average value). Right now, we don’t have an appetite to do six-year deals or seven-year deals. We don’t have an appetite to do anything beyond five-year deals, which is clear and not being specific to anybody. We can take on salary, we can make trades, we’ve been able to open it up a little bit more to talk about players that may not have been as good a fit in the past. With a little more room payroll wise."
Makes me think Jays have more money to play around than we might think or at the very least, they will backload that deal and since that 25M thing will kick in next year, that can work.

Quote:
-- There may be some cracks developing within the club’s policy on signing contracts beyond five years, a stance that seemed firm in the past. "We’d make an offer and if their numbers were higher, I’d let ownership know," explained Anthopoulos. "If I believe in it I might take the position and the stance with Paul (Beeston) and ownership that this might be something we need to look at and need to do. We haven’t had that come up yet, but I would never rule that out. We have certain leans we prefer to do, and five years is definitely that number."

-- For good measure Anthopoulos added later: "As of right now, I don’t see us doing anything beyond five years."
They probably want to stay firm on 5 years as much as possible but they realize premium FA can get beyond that and if they want to be players for those guys, they gotta do the same. I think if they really really really like the guy, they will go 6-7 years but want to stay at 5 as much as possible (they did go 7 for Wells though that was pre AA and Beeston era).

Quote:
-- At the moment, the Blue Jays seem inclined to go with what they have in-house at left field, which could mean some combination of rookie Anthony Gose and veteran Rajai Davis. "We’ve talked about a few things, we’ve looked at a few things, it’s a bit more of a wait-and-see approach with left field right now and being a little more aggressive in terms of the rotation," said Anthopoulos. "With LF and some of the options, it’s more of a sit back and maybe let it come to us a little more."
Ugh no. Please. Gose value takes a big hit away from CF and his bat is so not ready and he would end up not playing everyday (would get platooned with Davis). No. Please no. It can't be that hard to get a serviceable LF that can hit RHP a bit, can it?
Quote:
-- The Blue Jays leave the desert feeling like the free agent market is developing slowly and that they are closer to pulling off a trade rather than making a signing, though that doesn’t necessarily mean anything is imminent. "The longer I’ve done this you learn to work a little smarter and you get a sense of what things have a real chance of happening and what doesn’t," said Anthopoulos. "You might have 10 opportunities out there but realistically, eight are longshots and two have a chance, we’ll focus on the two that we have a chance to do."
That doesn't surprise me. FA market in baseball always develops very slowly. We likely won't see much happen in FA until at least mid-to-late November and it will heat up during Winter's Meetings. My guess is AA is talking to a ton of teams about starting pitching and trying to see where a trade might line up.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...mlb_blue_jays/

Good stuff from Shi Davidi.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  #73
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i dont like the idea of signing a pitcher for 15 million per
than morrow would want the same etc

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11-09-2012, 09:04 PM
  #74
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I can't stand the anti-win hipster crowd. Wins are relative, yes, but you don't win 20 games by accident. His numbers, and his season as a whole was phenomenal. And wins aren't entirely a team stat, some pitchers have the mentality to grind it out and get a win, others crumble. The team doesn't absolve, or take credit for everything good or bad that happens in a win.

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11-09-2012, 09:12 PM
  #75
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I can't stand the anti-win hipster crowd. Wins are relative, yes, but you don't win 20 games by accident. His numbers, and his season as a whole was phenomenal. And wins aren't entirely a team stat, some pitchers have the mentality to grind it out and get a win, others crumble. The team doesn't absolve, or take credit for everything good or bad that happens in a win.
Do you also believe that pitchers can directly influence their team to score more runs by yelling from the dugout? How about by throwing wads of bubble gum over their shoulder and saying Beetlejuce three times?

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