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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
AS for four teams in the CHL that exist in NHL markets, you are wrong again. I can name off lots. hmm. Brampton, Oshawa, Mississauga, Guelph, Plymouth, Windsor, Niagara, Broisband, Hull. Not to mention some just onthe outskirts like Barrie, Kitchener, Sarnia etc.
Among those cities only Windsor, Mississauga and Niagra compete with NHL teams.

Windsor is just across the river from Detroit and I'm sure a lot of Red Wings fans live there.

Niagara would compete with Buffalo and Sabres fans.

Mississauga is obviously in the Toronto market against the Maple Leafs.

Besides that I wouldn't say Guelph, Plymouth, Oshawa, Brampton, Kitchener, Sarnia, Barrie and even London are not on the outskirts of competing with the Maple Leafs and the Toronto market. Those cities are between 1 - 4 hours away depending on where you are going.

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11-09-2012, 10:23 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Among those cities only Windsor, Mississauga and Niagra compete with NHL teams.

Windsor is just across the river from Detroit and I'm sure a lot of Red Wings fans live there.

Niagara would compete with Buffalo and Sabres fans.

Mississauga is obviously in the Toronto market against the Maple Leafs.

Besides that I wouldn't say Guelph, Plymouth, Oshawa, Brampton, Kitchener, Sarnia, Barrie and even London are not on the outskirts of competing with the Maple Leafs and the Toronto market. Those cities are between 1 - 4 hours away depending on where you are going.
you say Mississauga is obviously in the Toronto market but Brampton is not. The arena is 6km away. 8-10 minute drive ip the same highway. If coming from Toronto on the 401 they are pretty much the same distance. Many people from Guelph Oshawa and Barrie and even Kitchener attend leaf games on a regular basis and are therefore in the Toronto market when it comes to NHL.If you say they are not you are crazy and obviously know nothing about marketing. Plymouth a Detroit suburb and sarnia as well for Detroit. Even Hull for Ottawa.

I live just south of Barrie in simcoe county and work with and have many friends from barrie and area and I can tell you 9 out of ten of those hockey fans in Barrie will choose colts tickets over leaf tickets. So they are defiantly in Toronto market. Lol

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11-09-2012, 10:30 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
you say Mississauga is obviously in the Toronto market but Brampton is not. The arena is 6km away. 8-10 minute drive ip the same highway. If coming from Toronto on the 401 they are pretty much the same distance. Many people from Guelph Oshawa and Barrie and even Kitchener attend leaf games on a regular basis and are therefore in the Toronto market when it comes to NHL.If you say they are not you are crazy and obviously know nothing about marketing. Plymouth a Detroit suburb and sarnia as well for Detroit. Even Hull for Ottawa.

I live just south of Barrie in simcoe county and work with and have many friends from barrie and area and I can tell you 9 out of ten of those hockey fans in Barrie will choose colts tickets over leaf tickets. So they are defiantly in Toronto market. Lol
Every August and December when I drive to Orlando, Florida for vacation I take the 407 & 401 to Windsor. Along the way I pass through cities such as Guelph, Kitchener and London. I can say without a doubt they are not in the Toronto area or considered to be in the GTA.

It's great that fans from those cities drive to Toronto for Leafs games. However just because fans from those cities come up for Leafs games if they get tickets, it doesn't make them a Toronto market.

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11-09-2012, 10:37 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Every August and December when I drive to Orlando, Florida for vacation I take the 407 & 401 to Windsor. Along the way I pass through cities such as Guelph, Kitchener and London. I can say without a doubt they are not in the Toronto area or considered to be in the GTA.

It's great that fans from those cities drive to Toronto for Leafs games. However just because fans from those cities come up for Leafs games if they get tickets, it doesn't make them a Toronto market.
They are not considerd the GTA you are right. But Guelph is just on the outskirts. It depends on what that market is for. If it is NHL then they are definitely in the Toronto market. London is questionable as it is in the middle if Detroit and Toronto. But the ohl and NHL are different markets. Just because you live in Oshawa or Guelph doesn't mean you are outside of the Toronto NHL market. Toronto's NHL market is the golden horsehoe and shares part of it(Niagara) with the buffalo market. The market isn't just the GTA. If you think they are not in the Toronto NHL market, then what
Market are they in.

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11-09-2012, 10:42 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Every August and December when I drive to Orlando, Florida for vacation I take the 407 & 401 to Windsor. Along the way I pass through cities such as Guelph, Kitchener and London. I can say without a doubt they are not in the Toronto area or considered to be in the GTA.

It's great that fans from those cities drive to Toronto for Leafs games. However just because fans from those cities come up for Leafs games if they get tickets, it doesn't make them a Toronto market.
Keep in mind, that Canada calculates their statistics differently than the USA. If toronto was in the usa the GTA wouldn't be used for marketing purposes. The golden horsehoe whould be and the would include Oshawa Hamilton brantford Guelph and probably the tri city KW area. The same way the bay area includes Oakland San Jose or Miami includes halfway up the Florida coast or Washington Baltimore, Detroit flint, Chicago Gary

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11-09-2012, 10:43 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
They are not considerd the GTA you are right. But Guelph is just on the outskirts. It depends on what that market is for. If it is NHL then they are definitely in the Toronto market. London is questionable as it is in the middle if Detroit and Toronto. But the ohl and NHL are different markets. Just because you live in Oshawa or Guelph doesn't mean you are outside of the Toronto NHL market. Toronto's NHL market is the golden horsehoe and shares part of it(Niagara) with the buffalo market. The market isn't just the GTA. If you think they are not in the Toronto NHL market, then what
Market are they in.
Speaking in terms of distance you are correct that Guelph would be considered a Toronto market since the Maple Leafs are the closest NHL team to their city. I would also say the same is true about Oshawa.

As for London my guess is maybe 50% of people there are Maple Leafs fans and maybe the other 50% are Red Wings fans. Although I would lean towards the Maple Leafs since a lot of people wear their jerseys when Toronto has played Philadelphia there during the preseason. Then again I'm not sure how many people went to the Red Wings/Flyers preseason game there last year and had on Red Wings jerseys.

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11-09-2012, 10:52 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Speaking in terms of distance you are correct that Guelph would be considered a Toronto market since the Maple Leafs are the closest NHL team to their city. I would also say the same is true about Oshawa.

As for London my guess is maybe 50% of people there are Maple Leafs fans and maybe the other 50% are Red Wings fans. Although I would lean towards the Maple Leafs since a lot of people wear their jerseys when Toronto has played Philadelphia there during the preseason. Then again I'm not sure how many people went to the Red Wings/Flyers preseason game there last year and had on Red Wings jerseys.
I agree 100%

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11-09-2012, 10:52 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Many people consider the GTA to be Toronto. He's pretty dull if he actually believes what he wrote though. Hockey is easily #1 here.
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Why not just say Newark is part of New York City while we're at it? It seems like the article was more focused on talking about Toronto not being a hockey town than it was on the Batallion relocating. Thebasis for his article is using a team that isn't actually from Toronto - what a moron
This is semantics. Would it have been better if they said Toronto urban area? Just do people have to be specific now? Do you think anyone outside the GTA has the time to figure out Brampton is 30-45 min away? Maybe for an article. Not in everyday life.

Brampton is the Toronto Urban Area. Newark is the NYC urban Area. Let's leave it at that, because some people love to be difficult and trying for no reason.

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This article has taught me two things:

1. The author doesn't know geography - Brampton is not in Toronto.

2. Apparently the NHL isn't hockey. Toronto boasts the largest revenue and profits in the NHL and they are the most valuable team in the entire NHL....but now I'm confused, if the NHL isn't hockey...someone needs to tell me what I should call it.
The NHL is a business. Hockey is a sport. The two are different.

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11-09-2012, 10:54 PM
  #184
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Maybe Toronto isn't a hockey market, but a Leafs market. What's wrong with that. I don't know anyone that says Toronto is a sports city like Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia. At least Toronto has those other teas. Vancouver or Montreal will never have more than an NHL teams, because they are bad sports markets while Toronto is just average. Average is better then nothing.

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11-09-2012, 10:57 PM
  #185
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Yea, Toronto isn't a hockey town

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11-09-2012, 11:01 PM
  #186
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Hey Toronto, you can join us Phoenix fans in the non-hockey town scrutiny. It's fun being hated on

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11-09-2012, 11:05 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Maybe Toronto isn't a hockey market, but a Leafs market. What's wrong with that. I don't know anyone that says Toronto is a sports city like Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia. At least Toronto has those other teas. Vancouver or Montreal will never have more than an NHL teams, because they are bad sports markets while Toronto is just average. Average is better then nothing.
Toronto is an NHL market. Not everyone are leaf fans. Toronto isn't considered a top sports city in the USA because it doesn't have the history outside of hockey. And we all know where hockey sits in the states. And it isnt an amerivan city. Cubs white and red sox yanks phillies athletics etc not to mention years of other pro sports teams. Those cities are sports cities not cuz of people but population.

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11-09-2012, 11:09 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
Toronto is an NHL market. Not everyone are leaf fans. Toronto isn't considered a top sports city in the USA because it doesn't have the history outside of hockey. And we all know where hockey sits in the states. And it isnt an amerivan city. Cubs white and red sox yanks phillies athletics etc not to mention years of other pro sports teams. Those cities are sports cities not cuz of people but population.
What about the fact that the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series in 1992 & 1993. That's history right there and considering Baseball is more popular in the United States then Hockey is, wouldn't more Americans remember that?

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11-09-2012, 11:13 PM
  #189
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I just did a quick count of the first random friends/family up to 20. 15 are a fan of mix teams and 5 are leaf fans. This is far from a leaf town. It is an NHL town. People love the NHL but not everyone are leaf fans. Many leaf haters in this area.

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11-09-2012, 11:15 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
I just did a quick count of the first random friends/family up to 20. 15 are a fan of mix teams and 5 are leaf fans. This is far from a leaf town. It is an NHL town. People love the NHL but not everyone are leaf fans. Many leaf haters in this area.
A lot of people for their own reasons moved from Montreal to Toronto and they still remain fans of the Canadiens, so there is a great example.

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11-09-2012, 11:18 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
What about the fact that the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series in 1992 & 1993. That's history right there and considering Baseball is more popular in the United States then Hockey is, wouldn't more Americans remember that?
That is recent history. It isn't so much about the championships as the cubs and sox haven't really been that successful. It is about the history. When it comes to baseball history the jays aren't even mentioned in the same sentence with the braves, dodgers, yanks, cubs etc. this coming from someone who has family members that have played for the first two teams mentioned. Most of my family is in NYC and blue jays are not considered near the others. Decent short history, but the same way Canadians don't care about the canes or panthers or ducks many Americans don't care about tr jays

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11-09-2012, 11:21 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
A lot of people for their own reasons moved from Montreal to Toronto and they still remain fans of the Canadiens, so there is a great example.
But most young fans normally when picking a team that has a star player or success. Toronto hasn't had much of that and many new young fans of other teams have emerged over the years. I being one got sick of losing as a kid.

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11-09-2012, 11:21 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
That is recent history. It isn't so much about the championships as the cubs and sox haven't really been that successful. It is about the history. When it comes to baseball history the jays aren't even mentioned in the same sentence with the braves, dodgers, yanks, cubs etc. this coming from someone who has family members that have played for the first two teams mentioned. Most of my family is in NYC and blue jays are not considered near the others. Decent short history, but the same way Canadians don't care about the canes or panthers or ducks many Americans don't care about tr jays
true. But that extends to multiple sports. Giants, Celtics, Sixers, Eagles, Pats, even the Redskins. Toronto does not have the history at all.

BTW why are you in the GTA over NYC? Trying to get to NYC myself, that's why I'm asking.

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11-09-2012, 11:21 PM
  #194
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That is recent history. It isn't so much about the championships as the cubs and sox haven't really been that successful. It is about the history. When it comes to baseball history the jays aren't even mentioned in the same sentence with the braves, dodgers, yanks, cubs etc. this coming from someone who has family members that have played for the first two teams mentioned. Most of my family is in NYC and blue jays are not considered near the others. Decent short history, but the same way Canadians don't care about the canes or panthers or ducks many Americans don't care about tr jays
I see your point. MLB teams such as the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers have history going a long time back, the same way the Maple Leafs have history from the 1930's.

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11-09-2012, 11:22 PM
  #195
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huge city in canada isn't a hockey town because one of the 6 junior hockey teams in the area has failed....how compelling.
Exactly.

Within 1 hour drive of Toronto you have:
Mississauga, Brampton, Oshawa, Guelph, Kitchener, and Barrie of the OHL.
Two AHL teams, Toronto and Hamilton.
Dozens of Junior A/B teams.
Plus insane amounts of rep minor hockey.
Yep, Toronto is not a hockey town.

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11-09-2012, 11:24 PM
  #196
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But most young fans normally when picking a team that has a star player or success. Toronto hasn't had much of that and many new young fans of other teams have emerged over the years. I being one got sick of losing as a kid.
I happen to know some people that moved from Montreal to Toronto and still remain Canadiens fans, so that's where I got that example from. It didn't have anything to do with picking a favorite team because of a specifc player or recent sucess.

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11-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
true. But that extends to multiple sports. Giants, Celtics, Sixers, Eagles, Pats, even the Redskins. Toronto does not have the history at all.

BTW why are you in the GTA over NYC? Trying to get to NYC myself, that's why I'm asking.
Born and raised in Newmarket area. Lots of family in NYC area and I visited and still do all the time

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11-09-2012, 11:41 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I happen to know some people that moved from Montreal to Toronto and still remain Canadiens fans, so that's where I got that example from. It didn't have anything to do with picking a favorite team because of a specifc player or recent sucess.
It happens but from my experience in Toronto, most people that move to the city don't even know what hockey is. Right now you are seeing a big boost in pens fans again because of kids and Crosby, the same way they had a big fan base boost here in the 90s and oilers in the 80s. See more caps fans than ever before.

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11-09-2012, 11:44 PM
  #199
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Funny how one OHL team failing in the GTA = non-hockey town.
Conveniently ignoring 3 other teams in the area that were 3rd, 5th, and 7th in attendance last year.

I think it's about identity. Successful Junior teams thrive on the locals identifying with their team. IMO Brampton and Mississauga have become just an extension of Toronto with little distinct identity.

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11-10-2012, 12:00 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
This is semantics. Would it have been better if they said Toronto urban area? Just do people have to be specific now? Do you think anyone outside the GTA has the time to figure out Brampton is 30-45 min away? Maybe for an article. Not in everyday life.


Brampton is the Toronto Urban Area. Newark is the NYC urban Area. Let's leave it at that, because some people love to be difficult and trying for no reason.
That was my point. It was an article, he should have done his homework and report it accurately. Nothing wrong if he wants to push that premise about Toronto, but I do have a problem with journalism that pushes an agenda above all else of acknowledging details. If you support shoddy journalism and feel that journalists shouldn't be called out for the inaccuracies in their published bodies of work, well then good for you I guess.


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The NHL is a business. Hockey is a sport. The two are different.
What a nonsense response. NHL is a business that endorses a sport called hockey. How do you find it convenient to separate the fact that hockey is the product of the NHL? What were you saying about people love being difficult for not reason? lol

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