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Old
11-09-2012, 05:50 AM
  #51
BlueBaron
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I still say, if you get the 1st, you won't get the second.
Why would they come to a team, which is declining?
You mean rising ? There is no where to go but up and with how young our team is it can only get better. Our problem with getting FA's has nothing to do with Burke or the state of the Team and everything to do with the pressures that come from our market.

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11-09-2012, 07:10 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
You mean rising ? There is no where to go but up and with how young our team is it can only get better. Our problem with getting FA's has nothing to do with Burke or the state of the Team and everything to do with the pressures that come from our market.
If we draft 1st overall after picking 5th overall this past year, it would mean our team was in decline. And you're kidding yourself if you believe that "market pressure" is the only reason UFA's are avoiding us. It's because we haven't made the playoffs for the better part of a decade. If this was a contending club, we'd have no problem signing guys here.

BTW, Burke has already tried to accelerate the process with some pretty dismal results. Do we really want him to try that again?


Last edited by achtungbaby: 11-09-2012 at 07:19 AM.
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Old
11-09-2012, 07:23 AM
  #53
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I have felt for a long time that were going to sign one of Getzlaf/Perry

Burke drafted them both and signed them both in Anaheim. He is close to both and has a good relationship with both.

Then he comes to Toronto and signs FA deals that expire " co-incidently" all at the same time, the year that Getzlaf/Perry become FA...Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidence at all..

Couple adding one of them and drafting a Barkov/Monahan and a lot of this teams problems become strengths

It will improve the leafs hugely and get us into the playoffs and then some.

This also means we wont be drafting low anymore, so my point was deal the 2014 pick + Kadri for a chance at another top 10 this year and pick another forward

I feel Kadri stock is dropping and waiting yet another year for him means next year he wont be worth much is anything to deal to anyone...

This year we could deal him and our 2014 first to get another high first and draft a much better player

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11-09-2012, 07:45 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
I have felt for a long time that were going to sign one of Getzlaf/Perry

Burke drafted them both and signed them both in Anaheim. He is close to both and has a good relationship with both.

Then he comes to Toronto and signs FA deals that expire " co-incidently" all at the same time, the year that Getzlaf/Perry become FA...Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidence at all..

Couple adding one of them and drafting a Barkov/Monahan and a lot of this teams problems become strengths

It will improve the leafs hugely and get us into the playoffs and then some.

This also means we wont be drafting low anymore, so my point was deal the 2014 pick + Kadri for a chance at another top 10 this year and pick another forward

I feel Kadri stock is dropping and waiting yet another year for him means next year he wont be worth much is anything to deal to anyone...

This year we could deal him and our 2014 first to get another high first and draft a much better player
Many around these parts thought that the Sedins would sign here for many of the same reasons you listed above and we all know that didn't happen. If Burkes plan for this team was to clear the slate for Getzlaf and/or Perry in the 5th year of his tenure while finishing in the lottery, than this team is in more trouble than I thought. Counting on free agents to fix your team is a terrible way to do business in the cap era. Counting on free agents to sign after finishing in the lottery is even worse.

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11-09-2012, 09:36 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
I have felt for a long time that were going to sign one of Getzlaf/Perry

Burke drafted them both and signed them both in Anaheim. He is close to both and has a good relationship with both.
Actually he drafted neither one of them.

Quote:
Then he comes to Toronto and signs FA deals that expire " co-incidently" all at the same time, the year that Getzlaf/Perry become FA...Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidence at all..
I can't imagine the President and GM of a team, wanting to suck
just because he has his eyes, and some people, who may not
even be around come July 1. There is no way he can guarantee
what their mindset is. I even heard that Getz will resign, once the
new CBA is signed. Sure I hope not, but those are rumours.
[/quote]

Quote:
Couple adding one of them and drafting a Barkov/Monahan and a lot of this teams problems become strengths
I don't think anyone effective will come to a declining team.
How long are Barkov and Monahan take to become contributing
parts of the team, especially with no FAs?

Quote:
It will improve the leafs hugely and get us into the playoffs and then some.

This also means we wont be drafting low anymore, so my point was deal the 2014 pick + Kadri for a chance at another top 10 this year and pick another forward

I feel Kadri stock is dropping and waiting yet another year for him means next year he wont be worth much is anything to deal to anyone...

This year we could deal him and our 2014 first to get another high first and draft a much better player
Lots of ifs and buts, and things could change.

If you want a good UFA, the team will have to show progress.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:52 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If we draft 1st overall after picking 5th overall this past year, it would mean our team was in decline. And you're kidding yourself if you believe that "market pressure" is the only reason UFA's are avoiding us. It's because we haven't made the playoffs for the better part of a decade. If this was a contending club, we'd have no problem signing guys here.
If Burke was dumb enough to hand out cap circumventing retirement deals left and right, we wouldn't really have that much trouble attracting FAs.

If we pick #1 overall this draft (or even anywhere in top 5), we can get our #1C, and won't need high profile UFAs, if we finish better than last year, our "improved team" may be viewed more favorably by the FAs. It's clearly a win-win .

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11-09-2012, 10:10 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
So your strategy to accelerate progress is to:

Trade a 7th overall pick who's already had 3 years of development and is on the cusp of being NHL ready + a future first round pick for an 18 year old picked 1 - 5 spots later than Kadri was, and who will likely need 2 + years of development before being ready for prime-time.

Doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I still believe in Kadri.
funny isn't he.

also funny is that everyone agrees with anything he says. I struggle to find anything I agree with Hawaiinleaf on

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11-09-2012, 10:13 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
After the story I heard from a friend who is playing with Mackinnon I want nothing to do with him. I would rather Jones at this point.



Monahan or Barkov are who I am hoping for but then again I was hoping for Grigs last year so I am not holding my breath.
this should be good.

tell us your story

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:18 AM
  #59
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funny isn't he.

also funny is that everyone agrees with anything he says. I struggle to find anything I agree with Hawaiinleaf on
By "everyone" do you mean no one?

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11-09-2012, 10:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If we draft 1st overall after picking 5th overall this past year, it would mean our team was in decline. And you're kidding yourself if you believe that "market pressure" is the only reason UFA's are avoiding us. It's because we haven't made the playoffs for the better part of a decade. If this was a contending club, we'd have no problem signing guys here.

BTW, Burke has already tried to accelerate the process with some pretty dismal results. Do we really want him to try that again?
UFAs aren't avoiding us.

Burke has been very active in the UFA market signing Armstrong, Connolly, Komisarek, Beauchemin, CMac, Bozak, Scrivens, etc. who all had plenty of other suitors.

There have only been a very limited # of top UFAs that have become available and for some reason Leaf fans think they should all want to sign with us.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
If Burke was dumb enough to hand out cap circumventing retirement deals left and right, we wouldn't really have that much trouble attracting FAs.

If we pick #1 overall this draft (or even anywhere in top 5), we can get our #1C, and won't need high profile UFAs, if we finish better than last year, our "improved team" may be viewed more favorably by the FAs. It's clearly a win-win .
So whom, in your opinion, would we have on the team today if Burke handed out cap circumventing deals?

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:08 AM
  #62
Patty Lee
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
By "everyone" do you mean no one?
no I meant it's funny he thinks everyone agrees with him

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:38 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
So whom, in your opinion, would we have on the team today if Burke handed out cap circumventing deals?
Hard to say without knowing who all was available. The highest profile UFAs of recent seasons weren't going to go anywhere else but where they ended up signing: Richards to Rags, Parise/Suter to Wilds, etc, so we had 0 shot on those UFAs just like any other team around the league. It had nothing to do with the pressure of TO, or how the Leafs have finished in the past X years, it had everything to do with said players wanting to play in Y city, or Z team.

We probably could have topped Philly's contract offer for Bryzgalov, and with how much Burke helped his career, he may have actually signed with us instead. In retrospect, that would have turned out to be a worse contract than the Komisarek, Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong, and Grabovski contracts combined.

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11-09-2012, 12:13 PM
  #64
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C'mon man I wanna know what's up with MacKinnon. Pm at least

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11-09-2012, 06:36 PM
  #65
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imagine we hadn't turned down Schenn + 1st ( became Kadri) for NYI 1st (Tavares)

imagine we han't traded Seguin + Hamilton + Knight for Kessel

imagine we hadn't traded Rask for Raycroft

Imagine if we hand't tried to accelerate things.

Tavares/Seguin as 1/2 punch

Rask in net

Rielly,Hamilton,Gardiner,Finn pairing.

With that much youth we might have even landed Schultz.

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11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If we draft 1st overall after picking 5th overall this past year, it would mean our team was in decline. And you're kidding yourself if you believe that "market pressure" is the only reason UFA's are avoiding us. It's because we haven't made the playoffs for the better part of a decade. If this was a contending club, we'd have no problem signing guys here.

BTW, Burke has already tried to accelerate the process with some pretty dismal results. Do we really want him to try that again?
Wait a minute I thought according to the fire Burke crowd that high draft picks were the only way to build a winning team. So wouldn't acquiring a 1st overall be a positive towards building a winner?

Market pressure does play a big part in it. You'll get more mics infront of your face for a preseason practice in Toronto than you'll get during the Cup finals in Los Angeles.

I do agree that contending teams have a much easier time signing UFA's. Just look at how DET used to get guys to leave millions on the table to sign with them.

I'll ignore the Burke comment until a proper thread is available.

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11-09-2012, 06:58 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
imagine we hadn't turned down Schenn + 1st ( became Kadri) for NYI 1st (Tavares)

imagine we han't traded Seguin + Hamilton + Knight for Kessel

imagine we hadn't traded Rask for Raycroft

Imagine if we hand't tried to accelerate things.

Tavares/Seguin as 1/2 punch

Rask in net

Rielly,Hamilton,Gardiner,Finn pairing.

With that much youth we might have even landed Schultz.


It's John Lennon reincarnated.

I love playing the imagine game.

Imagine Bozak was Malkin.

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11-09-2012, 08:09 PM
  #68
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C'mon man I wanna know what's up with MacKinnon. Pm at least
Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67 View Post
this should be good.

tell us your story
Well take it for whatever you want but here is what I buddy had to say.


With it being clear he is going first overall it has gotten to his head. He is talking back to his coach refusing to listen to what others have to say to him. He has just got an attitude problem. It comes from a guy I have known for quite some time and has no real reason to lie so I believe him but to everyone else here I am just a guy on the internet so I can understand why people would hold no validity to it and lets face it a coach is not going to come out and bad mouth is player. (Well Torts or Wilson would.)


After this my opinion on the kid changed and I would much rather draft a guy like Barkov or Monahan. I have a real problem with players with these elitist attitudes.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:49 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Wait a minute I thought according to the fire Burke crowd that high draft picks were the only way to build a winning team. So wouldn't acquiring a 1st overall be a positive towards building a winner?

Market pressure does play a big part in it. You'll get more mics infront of your face for a preseason practice in Toronto than you'll get during the Cup finals in Los Angeles.

I do agree that contending teams have a much easier time signing UFA's. Just look at how DET used to get guys to leave millions on the table to sign with them.

I'll ignore the Burke comment until a proper thread is available.
5th last in 2012 to deadlast in 2013= decline. Get it?

That was the point in regards to the posters comments I commented on.

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11-09-2012, 08:58 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
5th last in 2012 to deadlast in 2013= decline. Get it?

That was the point in regards to the posters comments I commented on.
But TOR could finish 30th because KEssel, Lupul, Phanuef, and Grabo all mis 4mos due to injury.

Philly Finished 30th the year they drafted JVR. The year before and year after they were contenders.

Isn't your Fire Burke stance based on more top picks and tanking?

So wouldn't a top pick be a step in the right direction according to you own beliefs? Otherwise known as a step forward? On the incline so to speak?

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11-09-2012, 09:12 PM
  #71
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But TOR could finish 30th because KEssel, Lupul, Phanuef, and Grabo all mis 4mos due to injury.

Philly Finished 30th the year they drafted JVR. The year before and year after they were contenders.

Isn't your Fire Burke stance based on more top picks and tanking?

So wouldn't a top pick be a step in the right direction according to you own beliefs? Otherwise known as a step forward? On the incline so to speak?
Edmonton had a record amount of injuries for their franchise the past few years, do you excuse them this way?

If the Leafs finish worse than they finished last year, than no. I wouldn't call that a step forward.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:22 PM
  #72
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imagine we han't traded Seguin + Hamilton + Knight for Kessel
At the 2009 Draft the trade was supposed to be Tomas Kaberle & the Maple Leafs 1st round pick (7th overall) for Phil Kessel.

However Brian Burke thought Toronto was going to keep their 1st round pick and get Boston's 1st round pick, so because of that the trade didn't happen and we know how the story ends.

So can you imagine Burke could have had Kessel + Seguin + Hamilton all on the same team.

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:22 PM
  #73
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Well take it for whatever you want but here is what I buddy had to say.


With it being clear he is going first overall it has gotten to his head. He is talking back to his coach refusing to listen to what others have to say to him. He has just got an attitude problem. It comes from a guy I have known for quite some time and has no real reason to lie so I believe him but to everyone else here I am just a guy on the internet so I can understand why people would hold no validity to it and lets face it a coach is not going to come out and bad mouth is player. (Well Torts or Wilson would.)


After this my opinion on the kid changed and I would much rather draft a guy like Barkov or Monahan. I have a real problem with players with these elitist attitudes.
I'm gonna go out there and say that this is pretty false. I have a few family friends who are on the Board of Directors and directly in the organization and have asked them about his attitude and Mackinnon has been nothing but a pleasure in the organization. Hard working, committed and not just to himself but to the team as a whole. Never has there been an issue with him and Ducharme and if there has, it was just a regular player-coach interaction. Having heard these things and actually meeting him a few times, he's never given off the impression that he's had an attitude issue.


Last edited by Patmac40: 11-09-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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Old
11-09-2012, 10:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
imagine we hadn't turned down Schenn + 1st ( became Kadri) for NYI 1st (Tavares)
That was Tampa's 2nd overall if Snow took someone other than Tavares with the 1st overall.

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11-10-2012, 12:20 PM
  #75
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imagine we hadn't turned down Schenn + 1st ( became Kadri) for NYI 1st (Tavares)

.
That only happened in your imagination.

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