Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Both Luongo and Schneider have the skill of a starting goaltender: that's why the canucks are trading one of them.
I believe Gillis would ONLY deal Luongo. I think he will take less to keep Schnieder. If Van management feel as most do that he is going to be a stud, you don't deal him.
Nope they aren't. They would be a lot better team with a better goaltender but I still have the option to at least start the season with Reimer/Scrivens or trade for another goalie with a lesser price (Bernier etc.)
Vancouver (at least their fans) is the more desperate side here, they want to deal one of their goalies. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many threads started by Vancouver fans. They are quite pushing to trade one of their goaltenders and this will result probably with a slight underpay - still Vancouver can be a better team even if they don't get even value back (say they fill their prospect pool and get a decent 2nd line forward, and only giving up their second goaltender)
Ahhh yes, my favorite hf boards past time.
The Canucks, who have 2 very good starting goaltenders are more desperate than the Leafs who haven't made the playoffs in....
The Canuck fans are desperate to trade Luongo because we have been reminded of Luongo's horrible value and how having both luongo and Schneider will destroy our locker room
I woudn't say he stole the #1 until Luongo is dealt. Now, i agree with you, but you are one of the few Nucks fans i've seen admit it.
It sounded a lot more aimed at you personally then I meant it too, but the absolute concensus, from non-Canuck fans, around here seems to be that Luongo is being traded because Schneider up and stole his position, which I agree is a farce of logic over 3 games.
And for the record, sarcasm doesn't appear well on this I meant it as more of a "make up your mind" statement. Again, not strictly aimed at you, but at everyone saying Luongo's old, declining and lost his job, but that Schneider is unproven and not a starter. It seems to be a catch-22.
It sounded a lot more aimed at you personally then I meant it too, but the absolute concensus, from non-Canuck fans, around here seems to be that Luongo is being traded because Schneider up and stole his position, which I agree is a farce of logic over 3 games.
And for the record, sarcasm doesn't appear well on this I meant it as more of a "make up your mind" statement. Again, not strictly aimed at you, but at everyonesaying Luongo's old, declining and lost his job, but that Schneider is unproven and not a starter. It seems to be a catch-22.
Not said by me. It truely is a catch-22. With Schnieder saying "i feel i am ready to be a starter" and his stats backing it up to Luongo's "time to move on", your management is truely in a pickle...a good 1 mind you, but a pickle none the less. What happens if they trade Lu and Schnieder falters....do they trade Cory and run the risk of dealing a future stud....tough decisions ahead in the GM's office.
There's no way Toronto come remotely close to making this deal. The Leafs have zero interest in Schroeder or Ballard, and we're not about to trade our best centre and our best or 2nd best young player (Gardiner is either our best, or 2nd best behind Rielly) for a goalie.
Personally I do not think the Nucks trade Schneider period, I think they keep shopping Luongo until a deal is made. As you said, the fans love Schneider, and they definitely DO NOT love Luongo (they've eased up on him a bit since it's been evident that he'll be dealt, but IMO they'd go into an unprecedented hate mode if Luongo was kept and Schneider dealt).
However, if they were trading Schneider, the deals brought up by the OP are pretty much the limit of what the Leafs could possibly offer. They were already very steep, but borderline fair prices, proposals like this are simply unreasonable. Instead of making an offer like this, you may as well just say "I have no interest in trading Schneider period."
Fair enough, but in all honesty I would certainly trade Schneider if the deal made us considerably better today. Hence, an overpayment like the one mentioned above. Of the initial deals proposed, I may take Lupul, Kadri, and the conditional 1st. We're looking to compete now, and if Lupul can be a PPG player on Kesler's wing we'd be sitting pretty. We could afford to add another 6mil player to our roster as well if he continues that output, I feel we have some wiggle room.
Ladd - Jokinen - Wheeler
Kane - Burmistrov - Lupul
Raymond - Antropov - Ponikarovsky
Machacek - Slater - Thorburn
Enstrom - Bogosian
Hainsey - Ballard
Stuart - Postma
Schneider
Montoya
Flame Away!
I like this. Winnipeg would appreciate Schneids as they saw him grow as a starting goaltender as a Moose.
This also solves the problems Leafs fans see with Schneids not being a proven starter, since Pavs has been solid number 1 for 2 seasons and been a split start for 1 before that.
We add to very good players who help us win now and on the long term, add depth to the right side D where we lack, and add a 2nd line Centre/winger who can play 2nd PP unit centre and 2nd line RW during even strength.
Not said by me. It truely is a catch-22. With Schnieder saying "i feel i am ready to be a starter" and his stats backing it up to Luongo's "time to move on", your management is truely in a pickle...a good 1 mind you, but a pickle none the less. What happens if they trade Lu and Schnieder falters....do they trade Cory and run the risk of dealing a future stud....tough decisions ahead in the GM's office.
Hey hey hey, I did do a better job saying it is not you specifically. It's the logic of these boards it seems, but Leafs fans predominently (again, I'm not saying you specifically). Either way, I can't say I'd be upset at keeping either one, or both short term, but after almost 4 decades of having ho-hum goaltending, I'd rather have to many versus too few.
Schneider and Edler for a true number one defenseman, a top six forward and a backup/3c/bottom pairing defender.
I like this. Winnipeg would appreciate Schneids as they saw him grow as a starting goaltender as a Moose.
This also solves the problems Leafs fans see with Schneids not being a proven starter, since Pavs has been solid number 1 for 2 seasons and been a split start for 1 before that.
We add to very good players who help us win now and on the long term, add depth to the right side D where we lack, and add a 2nd line Centre/winger who can play 2nd PP unit centre and 2nd line RW during even strength.
Fair enough, but in all honesty I would certainly trade Schneider if the deal made us considerably better today. Hence, an overpayment like the one mentioned above. Of the initial deals proposed, I may take Lupul, Kadri, and the conditional 1st. We're looking to compete now, and if Lupul can be a PPG player on Kesler's wing we'd be sitting pretty. We could afford to add another 6mil player to our roster as well if he continues that output, I feel we have some wiggle room.
I do think the Lupul, Kadri and conditional 1st deal makes the most sense for both sides. The Nucks get a guy who could really help them in the present (Lupul), as well as a solid prospect to make up for the difference in value. Other than playing with Kessel, Lupul was at his best playing on Jeff Carter's wing with Philly, and Carter is a somewhat similar centre to Kesler (big, fast, 2-way game, great shot, more of a shoot first than pass first guy). I think a line with Lupul and Kesler could be one of the absolute best 2nd lines in the league, and could be a big step towards returning the Nucks to their dominant offensive form from 2010/11.
I wonder if this trade could be worked as a 3-way, with Kadri going to a 3rd team for a solid 3rd line centre to the Nucks? For example, something like Kadri for Frans Nielsen?
- Isles: Kadri in; Nielsen out
- Leafs: Schneider in; Lupul, Kadri and conditional 2014 1st (if Lupul doesn't re-sign) out
- Nucks: Lupul, Nielsen and cond. 1st in; Schneider out
This would be an absolute killer lineup for the Nucks:
Looks considerably better (on paper) than the team that went to game 7 of the finals with the Bruins. They could return to being an offensive powerhouse that never lets up and scores like crazy with every line, as opposed to last year when they were relying a bit too much on the Sedin line.
Lupul for Pavelec? No thanks from the Leafs pov,
Pavelec is mediocre, And you'd have a hard time justifying he's be a significant upgrade over Reimer.
I agree that the leafs fans might not be too interested, but considering that both Pavelec and Lupul have had their ups and downs, and Lupul is for sure on his highest value right now, Pavelec has more upside and plays a more difficult spot to fill. That said, its understandable if Leafs fans wouldn't pull the trigger following Lupuls monster season. Mostly I was looking to fill the need of starting goalie upgrade with a team that could use one, after Wpg acquires Schneider.
I agree that the leafs fans might not be too interested, but considering that both Pavelec and Lupul have had their ups and downs, and Lupul is for sure on his highest value right now, Pavelec has more upside and plays a more difficult spot to fill. That said, its understandable if Leafs fans wouldn't pull the trigger following Lupuls monster season. Mostly I was looking to fill the need of starting goalie upgrade with a team that could use one, after Wpg acquires Schneider.
I think if the Jets did try to flip Pavelec they'd be looking at a Kulemin-type player in return. Pavelec hasn't shown himself to be worth a top line forward.
I think if the Jets did try to flip Pavelec they'd be looking at a Kulemin-type player in return. Pavelec hasn't shown himself to be worth a top line forward.
Despite Lupul's numbers last year, he had only ever proven to be a top line forward on a mediocre non playoff team while receiving the benefits of lots of minutes and a major offensive player to play with.
Considering the fact Lupul has always been regarded as a complimentary scoring forward his whole career, the trade with Winnipeg for Pavs seems quite on par with what a guy who only has this season under contract, and could possibly be looking for make more than Pavs and what he currently makes. While Pavs carries a nice medium sized but long term contract while providing more stability and is quite more proven than Reimer.
I do think the Lupul, Kadri and conditional 1st deal makes the most sense for both sides. The Nucks get a guy who could really help them in the present (Lupul), as well as a solid prospect to make up for the difference in value. Other than playing with Kessel, Lupul was at his best playing on Jeff Carter's wing with Philly, and Carter is a somewhat similar centre to Kesler (big, fast, 2-way game, great shot, more of a shoot first than pass first guy). I think a line with Lupul and Kesler could be one of the absolute best 2nd lines in the league, and could be a big step towards returning the Nucks to their dominant offensive form from 2010/11.
I wonder if this trade could be worked as a 3-way, with Kadri going to a 3rd team for a solid 3rd line centre to the Nucks? For example, something like Kadri for Frans Nielsen?
- Isles: Kadri in; Nielsen out
- Leafs: Schneider in; Lupul, Kadri and conditional 2014 1st (if Lupul doesn't re-sign) out
- Nucks: Lupul, Nielsen and cond. 1st in; Schneider out
This would be an absolute killer lineup for the Nucks:
Looks considerably better (on paper) than the team that went to game 7 of the finals with the Bruins. They could return to being an offensive powerhouse that never lets up and scores like crazy with every line, as opposed to last year when they were relying a bit too much on the Sedin line.
If the Leafs were game for this, I would definitely pull the trigger for the exact reasons you have outlined. While Schneider is believed to be a franchise tender, this would make us a juggernaut now and it is not as though Luongo is anything to scuff at. In addition, Lack has been cited to have a comparable future ahead of him.
Not certain if Long Island would but this does solidify the needs of both Vancouver and Toronto. I do suspect some could be gun shy in dealing Lupul though considering the loss of scoring. JVR would hopefully make up for it though.
Alas, I do agree with your assessment on Luongo being traded over Schneider. While I do not perceive that as necessarily bad, Schneider will bring us a better return, we have other goaltending prospects and from a squarely Leaf perspective, he is who I would chase more aggressively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hero
The values are so different.
Gardiner + 1st >>> Lupul + Kadri + 1st
Not necessarily. Lupul just came off a PPG season on an otherwise awful team. There is nothing to indicate he could not replicate, or even exceed those stats on a better one. The extra first is the balancer.
For God's sake Gardiner has played more games than this guy in the NHL. People who are calling him an elite starter give your head a shake.
Regardless if he's proven it to the rest of the league over a long enough period or not, he's damn good, he's gonna continue to be good, better,maybe the best, and the Canucks know this. Trading for Vancouver Island would be less costly than Schnieder right now. There is no goalie in the league i would rather have in net, not only does he have the talent, potential and attitude to bank, he was drafted and developed by this franchise. That means a lot to some.
Last edited by CanucksSayEh: 11-10-2012 at 12:46 AM.
Trading Schneider only makes sense if it improves the Canucks now and in the long term. Acquiring a player like Lupul doesn't help the Nucks, he's a UFA on July 1st 2013 and he's terrible defensively. So you get three months outta him or three years from Schneider, easy decision really!
It'll be an overpayment if anything, good NHL prospect and a 1st round pick. Canucks have put five years into his development, he wouldn't come cheap!
Not said by me. It truely is a catch-22. With Schnieder saying "i feel i am ready to be a starter" and his stats backing it up to Luongo's "time to move on", your management is truely in a pickle...a good 1 mind you, but a pickle none the less. What happens if they trade Lu and Schnieder falters....do they trade Cory and run the risk of dealing a future stud....tough decisions ahead in the GM's office.
Keep both and trade one next offseason. Which one will be obvious by the time this season ends.
I meant it as more of a "make up your mind" statement. Again, not strictly aimed at you, but at everyone saying Luongo's old, declining and lost his job, but that Schneider is unproven and not a starter. It seems to be a catch-22.
