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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #176
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According to Scott Burnside at ESPN the NHL will be cancelling the Winter Classic event later this week. If that happens I think there will be no chance to save any part of this season.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...ed-source-says

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10-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Revenue distribution has zero to do with what the players are trying to get. Regardless of what they would like to tell you. So there goes that.

Honoring signed contracts...again they are honored based on CBA. That is professional sports. Deal with it. They are good for the life of a CBA and are changed based on the CBA that takes its place. Thats the fight right now, they want the same language in the CBA for their contracts. But lets look for just one second. The NHL offer basically said they would honor those contracts, minus about 2-5% of value. 2-5%. Think about that for a second. 98M instead of 100M. The players are tweeting their Ferraris and laughing about them being loud but wont play for a dollar less then the millions they already make. Give me a break.

Revenue sharing and distribution does need to be addressed. But thats really an issue that the team execs need to take care of with their side of the revenue. It has nothing to do with the players side of the revenue.

The players will NOT win this war. They wont do anything but lose millions of dollars, and years on their careers. Why do you think St Louis is so pissed off? Because he is close to his swan song and hes having another season wasted to this ********.

The NHLPA should have tweaked the NHL offer to change the UFA, ELC, etc things a little more back in their favor, maybe, maybe asked for 51/49 for the first couple of years or something and signed the damn deal. That deal was the fairest proposal brought to the table by either camp by far.

But no, Fehr is a ****ing idiot who wants the world because he doesnt give two ***** about the actual game of hockey and its fans.

I could go on forever, but I digress. This should have been over with. The NHLPA is the one who stopped it from being so with their idiocy on delinked HRR among other things.
Nobody on this board mindlessly rants on quite like you.

Anyways, here is the link to the AMA from some supposed team exec on the business side. Some of what he is saying is accurate, some of it isn't.

http://www.***********/r/IAmA/comment...t_the_lockout/

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10-29-2012, 06:12 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Nobody on this board mindlessly rants on quite like you.

Anyways, here is the link to the AMA from some supposed team exec on the business side. Some of what he is saying is accurate, some of it isn't.

http://www.***********/r/IAmA/comment...t_the_lockout/
While ill agree on the rant part, mindlessly is completely false. Just because you don't come to the same conclusion as me doesn't mean my rants are mindless. But you brought something up and I corrected it to my thoughts and you just dismiss it in passing. Reasoning?

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10-29-2012, 07:03 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Nobody on this board mindlessly rants on quite like you.

Anyways, here is the link to the AMA from some supposed team exec on the business side. Some of what he is saying is accurate, some of it isn't.

http://www.***********/r/IAmA/comment...t_the_lockout/
Well, the guy did verify himself to the mods of that *********...(not to say they haven't been fooled before)

How is information disseminated by NHL teams when it's not done via press release? I'm figuring there's no formal system, as that's what the press release is for, and would be especially prone to open interpretation and telephone game type changes.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-29-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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10-30-2012, 09:26 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
The players are tweeting their Ferraris and laughing about them being loud but wont play for a dollar less then the millions they already make. Give me a break.
How do you justify saying this, when journalists are saying that the difference between players' last offer(s) and the owners' last offer is $2.3 million per team per year? Round that up to $3 million, and it's parking lot income for most owners, and could be an entire third line of jobs to the players. I really dont think that bringing up money is a good standpoint for you to make your point for the owner's case. What's good for the goose...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
The players will NOT win this war. They wont do anything but lose millions of dollars, and years on their careers. Why do you think St Louis is so pissed off? Because he is close to his swan song and hes having another season wasted to this ********.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about St Louis; but again, no one, especially Fehr is looking to "win" the war. But the player's will hold out for a panacea offer that suits them the best. Who can fault them for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
The NHLPA should have tweaked the NHL offer to change the UFA, ELC, etc things a little more back in their favor, maybe, maybe asked for 51/49 for the first couple of years or something and signed the damn deal. That deal was the fairest proposal brought to the table by either camp by far.
What does ELC and UFA tweaks do for the majority of the players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.quanthockey.com
A typical career of an NHL player can be summarized with one word. Its short! Over half of all NHL players play less that 100 games during their career and for approximately 5 percent of players, their first NHL game is also their last. If we look at this from a different angle, long careers are extremely rare. Only 4 percent of players (that's 1 out of 25) dress up for more than 1000 games.
You're raging against the machine of players like Parise whom, yes, will be fine no matter what, when you're forgetting that the majority of the NHLPA is made up of Adam Halls

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
But no, Fehr is a ****ing idiot who wants the world because he doesnt give two ***** about the actual game of hockey and its fans.
Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I could go on forever, but I digress. This should have been over with. The NHLPA is the one who stopped it from being so with their idiocy on delinked HRR among other things.
welp

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10-30-2012, 10:06 PM
  #181
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I find it ironic when people criticize the players for not giving in because they make lots of money. It's as if they don't realize that the owners are worth on average hundreds of millions of dollars.

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10-31-2012, 09:02 AM
  #182
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Its natural to want to blame someone or something.

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10-31-2012, 11:21 AM
  #183
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This is interesting for several reasons, but the one that is most intriguing to me is that Peddie reveals how the owners vote, which is not the picture that's been painted, as it's to agree or disagree with the commissioner.

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11-02-2012, 11:21 AM
  #184
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Of course the NHL doesn't want to cancel the Winter Classic, but today is the PA's best opportunity to turn the tables on what the league is doing.

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11-02-2012, 08:28 PM
  #185
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711
Quote:
The league amended a proposal made last month to shift the cost of the NHL-designed 'make whole' provision from the players share over to the owners side.

The concept of "Make Whole" is a protection plan to cover player salary reduction in dropping the players revenue share from 57% to 50% in year 1 of a new CBA.

The NHL proposal included a deferred payment system which the league is also willing to reconsider when negotiations resume.

This move by the owners is considered a significant concession.

The two sides are expected to meet no later than early next week.
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun
Quote:
Bill Daly and Steve Fehr are meeting Saturday in undisclosed location to resume bargaining talks

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11-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #186
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Well played, NHLPA, well played.


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Last edited by Felonious Python: 11-03-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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11-03-2012, 12:47 PM
  #187
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Well played, NHLPA, well played.


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11-05-2012, 02:16 AM
  #188
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http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...aining/1259992
Quote:
A secret bargaining session has done some good in the NHL labor fight, enough that the sides plan to get back to the bargaining table soon.

Deputy commissioner Bill Daly and players association lawyer Steve Fehr met for long stretches Saturday in an undisclosed location, the first time the sides had gotten together for formal talks in more than two weeks.

"We had a series of meetings over the course of the day and had a good, frank discussion on the most important issues separating us," Daly said in an email to the media Sunday. "We plan to meet again early in the week."

The sides tentatively were set to meet again Tuesday in New York, ESPN reported.
Quote:
"I agree with what Bill said," Fehr said in a statement. "Hopefully we can continue the dialogue, expand the (negotiation) group and make steady progress."

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11-05-2012, 06:08 AM
  #189
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The secret meeting was to discuss the split of HRR (Halloween Related Revenue).

What the league suggested was that the owners would take a bite out of each piece of candy before the players get it, but the players think that's gross, and believe the candy should be divided by entire pieces (hence the "make whole" provision) which was oddly suggested by the owners, in an effort to make it sound as unappealing as possible.

There's also significant issues over Reece's pieces, as the league is strong arming the PA into accepting them when they damn well know that Tom Poti is allergic. They suggested that this is handled by the candy escrow to ensure the players a fair split, that each person gets candy that they want, and has been inspected by the Executive Director first. But it doesn't change the fact that there's still a **** load of Reece's pieces, and it'll be unfair no matter how they divide them. The previous CBA (Candy Bargaining Agreement) defined individually wrapped Reece's pieces to be full candies, and not fun sized as everybody damn well knows they are.

All I know is that there's a ton of candy currently going to waste.

The players will be receiving their candy escrows from last year in December unless a new CBA is signed.


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11-06-2012, 05:54 PM
  #190
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I'm checking twitter for CBA 2012 coverage and the league and PA met at 3 pm. They're still at it and are expected to keep going for some time...

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11-07-2012, 07:53 PM
  #191
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The end is near.

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11-07-2012, 07:58 PM
  #192
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The end is near.
Not soon enough...

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11-07-2012, 08:00 PM
  #193
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The end is near.
December 21st is next month.

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11-07-2012, 08:12 PM
  #194
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11-07-2012, 09:07 PM
  #195
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The end is near.
Hope So

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11-09-2012, 07:42 PM
  #196
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Does it seem like the NHL is trying to create paranoia among the PA, hoping they turn on each other by saying that Donald Fehr isn't transparent enough?

The players already don't think the league is particularly interested in their enlightenment, so why would they now?

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11-10-2012, 06:18 AM
  #197
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So now the NHLPA is demanding the make whole provision includes paying players for games missed this season that won't be made up. Instead of a prorated salary. PLUS a 5% raise.

Yeah, anyone still on the players' side at this point is an idiot.

**** them.

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11-10-2012, 06:37 AM
  #198
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Ummm....if I understand correctly, the players were locked out, not the other way around. Why shouldn't they go for their lost salaries? This was the owner's decision. Before you jump up and down and scream at me, I think this should have been settled along time ago, their both idiots, and both sides need a good swift kick in the pants...Get it done!

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11-10-2012, 07:08 AM
  #199
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Ummm....if I understand correctly, the players were locked out, not the other way around. Why shouldn't they go for their lost salaries? This was the owner's decision. Before you jump up and down and scream at me, I think this should have been settled along time ago, their both idiots, and both sides need a good swift kick in the pants...Get it done!
I agree with both sides being to blame.

I'd recommend reading Harrison Mooney's blog post about this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...3314--nhl.html

The only things that missing from his argument is that Fehr has a reputation from being the MLBPA's director, now what that is, I have no idea, but he helped build them into the power they are today. Changing sports doesn't mean a change of character and the it's the PA's responsibility to have known what they'd be getting into.

Making Fehr as 'not a hockey guy' is a good tactic, but also one that's been accurately levied against Bettman. I mean, he was deputy commissioner of the NBA, a professional sports league, which has it's office in NYC, and he couldn't accurately give the name of the New York Islanders when he was hired.

There's also the negotiation aspect. This is a takeaway deal, and how successful Fehr is seen after this will be determined by how little the players give away. That was probably the high offer, which the league is just as guilty of on the other side. They probably started with indentured servitude.

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11-10-2012, 07:51 AM
  #200
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Ummm....if I understand correctly, the players were locked out, not the other way around. Why shouldn't they go for their lost salaries? This was the owner's decision. Before you jump up and down and scream at me, I think this should have been settled along time ago, their both idiots, and both sides need a good swift kick in the pants...Get it done!
Well I had an entire well typed out response but lost it somehow so ill just sum it up with this. I agree, both idiots, BUT, the owners locked out the players because there is no CBA and they weren't going to play without one in place because they know Fehr's MO and that he would strike. The NHL wante to negotiate in January. Fehr and NHLPA said no. So here we are and the players ask for 50/50 and their existing contracts honored. NHL gives them pretty close to exactly that and instead of accepting, they turn around and demand a raise along with a being paid for work they did not do. That's ridiculous.

Then you have idiot players spouting off that the NHL offer is based off of growth and what if it doesn't grow like that (even though the NHL offer was guaranteed money until the 3rd year which is good for the players because after this the first two years will be hard to have growth with fan pushback), and yet he backs the same growth the NHLPA is trying to project in every single one of their proposals to justify their gradual decline to 50/50. So it's ok for them to use growth but not the NHL, got it.

The players are idiots aren't being informed of all the details or both. This should have been over twice now. I'd bet 80% of the NHLPA would approve the NHLs last offer. It's the superstar players who will lose a couple million out of the many many million contracts that wouldn't want it. And Fehr who doesn't want a deal at all because he knows as soon as the entire season is canceled he can go right after the cap.

It's really a joke at this point. Why do you think recently retired players who have dealt with this before are saying the players need to just take the deal and it's fair enough.

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