HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012 CBA Discussion III (Lockout Talk)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-10-2012, 02:10 AM
  #701
Mione134
Registered User
 
Mione134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hogwarts-617
Country: United States
Posts: 10,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Yes... Fehr is the Devil.

Couldn't possibly be that the league offered the PA no reason to take a cut in revenue. And it couldn't possibly be because the players expressed disdain for the other parts of the proposal. It's all on Donald Fehr and his evil plan to **** the fans out of a season of hockey.

I'm sorry, did I call him the devil? Overreaction, much?

Fehr is playing hard ball, which is his job, but from all accounts starting months ago is that he's a pos. Bettman is just as guilty of it. But when we are in serious danger of not having a season at all, and then you've got reports coming out that it was close to being ended but then he starts to play hardball again, what am I supposed to think? It's not one sided, but right now the ball is in Fehr's court and the players need to start thinking about what HAS been discussed.


In the end, yes, it's millionaires talking about millionaires, but enough is enough now and I think Fehr is JUST as guilty as Bettman and right now is pulling a Boras. Sources are even saying he's leaving some information out in the memo's he's giving to players, and why is that? Money.

Either figure this crap out now, or just cancel the whole season. Period.

Mione134 is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 03:40 AM
  #702
bb74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Annecy
Country: France
Posts: 3,103
vCash: 500
Season is dead.

It is becoming more and more difficult by the minute to honor the contracts signed under the previous CBA unless the escrow factor is going to be HUGE given top line is going to tank for the next 5 years in the NHL.

NHLPA may be getting screwed here but it's just basic economics at this point. Every lost day of the season is roughly $10M out the window. From a future perspective point of view, we were in a much better (on paper) economic situation in 2006 as compared to today. Expect the "new" 2013 cap to be in the 2.4-2.5B range or $7M a day. At 7% compounded interest we would take 5 years to get back to the current top-line... and they would still only have 50% of the pie to share so still a lower aggregate cap and floor from today.

Tell the players that this week over 4 days of negotiations just cost the players (4*$10M*50%) $20M cash in pocket....

The NHL and PA created a situation for which the only resolution was top line growth. Both have embarked upon a strategy to kill the growth for the next 5 years against current volumes.

It is truly stupidity at it's finest.

"The only ones to win a war are those that are left alive when it is over". By 2013 100+ players will have taken a bullet.... while another 150-200 have put a local guy on the breadline in the other leagues.

bb74 is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 06:32 AM
  #703
DarrenBanks56
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hnidy Hnight View Post
We let them off the hook in 2005, and we're here now yet again because we came back. Im not kidding in the least. Don't be a sucker for these guys. Its an abusive relationship, from a business standpoint. Stand up for yourself or walk away
if they lose the season i am not renewing and i better get my full refund at once. Not this one payment a month crap.

i will never attend another nhl game again. its a long ride anyways.
I did it with baseball, I can do it with hockey.
I really hope the league suffers after this. Its all so wrong.

Fact is i really havent missed it as much this season so far as I thought. pretty soon it will be warm out again, and it will be an afterthought.

they are making a huuuuuuge mistake. Im a huge fan and for me not to come back must mean alot of other fans not as fanatic as me; not willing to live their life around the Bruins; are probably going to do the same as myself

DarrenBanks56 is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 06:36 AM
  #704
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,853
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Fehr seems to be serving the high profile players like Crosby.

No way it is good for his members overall to not be playing right now.

I hope they revolt, and soon.

Morris Wanchuk is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 06:55 AM
  #705
ODAAT
Registered User
 
ODAAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Fehr seems to be serving the high profile players like Crosby.

No way it is good for his members overall to not be playing right now.

I hope they revolt, and soon.
Yep, wonder who, if anyone has the stones to start it up??

ODAAT is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 07:09 AM
  #706
Kalus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Quincy
Posts: 657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Yep, wonder who, if anyone has the stones to start it up??
Cue the 'unintential bird' batman spotlight signal.

Kalus is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 07:27 AM
  #707
Kelly23
Pedroia and Drew
 
Kelly23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 5,174
vCash: 500
If the players dont respect the deal thats on the tabe in terms of money and walk away I want the Owners to never even give them anything close to the 211m they were giving them, Owners need to pull thier offer and just not have a season.

Kelly23 is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 07:41 AM
  #708
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,190
vCash: 500
Seems that "the players are stupid/in thrall" is the popular theory.

Quote:
This isn't the first time the league has taken issue with Fehr's communication to the players. Last month, it released a full proposal on nhl.com because it felt the message wasn't getting through.

For their part, players have said many times that information flows much more freely than in 2004-05, when, for example, the vast majority were not aware that the NHLPA was going to propose a 24-per cent salary rollback. And, the weirdest thing about Friday's accusation was that the NHL's latest offers were made with several players in attendance.
(emphasis added).

Quote:
Fehr's reaction -- about 90 minutes later -- was very interesting. He denied he's not fully communicated any of the league's offers to his players and added the "NHLPA doesn't feel it is as far apart on core economic issues as NHL says they are." (Source: Pierre LeBrun's twitter page.)
(emphasis added)

Quote:
There is no way the season is in any danger -- yet. But, if games aren't started by Dec. 1, it sounds like those in the league who don't want to lose 2012-13 are worried about the hardliners regaining control of the process. And they don't see enough progress being made.

Fehr can see that and he's trying to exploit it. That's why they took a run at him. They want to see if there's any internal dissent, pressure within the NHLPA to push him out.

It's a big game of chicken right now. What we wait to find out is this: did they weaken him, or just make Fehr's position stronger?
(emphasis added)

Solid unemotional analysis here:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ers-union.html

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:07 AM
  #709
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
It's all semantics really, on how you want to interpret it all.

Were there several players present? Define several. The number of players attending has dropped like butterflies in the last few meetings, starting at 14 a few days ago and down to 5 yesterday.

Did Fehr withhold information? Again, depends on how you interpret the information.

- The league has guaranteed existing contracts

- The NHLPA (by omission) says it hasn't

The difference: The NHL is guaranteeing this season's pro-rated ie minus the games not played

Now, this is the key: The NHLPA wants the players paid in full for this season ie paid for games not played.

If you believe the players should be paid for games not going to be played then I guess you should believe there is no guarantee and Fehr is correct in saying that there is no 100% guarantee

If you believe players are NOT entitled to be paid for games not played, then you should believe the NHL is guaranteeing the contracts 100% and that the info should have been passed onto the membership.

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:14 AM
  #710
KnightofBoston
MVP
 
KnightofBoston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amherst, Ma
Country: United States
Posts: 12,494
vCash: 500
Thats the issue?? @$@&&!&@

I hope everyone catches on to that.

No, players should not be paid for games lost. Unless that's the only way to complete make whole

KnightofBoston is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:16 AM
  #711
chuckdobbins
Moderator
 
chuckdobbins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,430
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
It's all semantics really, on how you want to interpret it all.

Were there several players present? Define several. The number of players attending has dropped like butterflies in the last few meetings, starting at 14 a few days ago and down to 5 yesterday.

Did Fehr withhold information? Again, depends on how you interpret the information.

- The league has guaranteed existing contracts

- The NHLPA (by omission) says it hasn't

The difference: The NHL is guaranteeing this season's pro-rated ie minus the games not played

Now, this is the key: The NHLPA wants the players paid in full for this season ie paid for games not played.

If you believe the players should be paid for games not going to be played then I guess you should believe there is no guarantee and Fehr is correct in saying that there is no 100% guarantee

If you believe players are NOT entitled to be paid for games not played, then you should believe the NHL is guaranteeing the contracts 100% and that the info should have been passed onto the membership.
That makes me sick. The players/Fehr aren't doing themselves any favors lately.

chuckdobbins is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:18 AM
  #712
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,853
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Part of me wants to see the season cancelled so I can hear about these low level players filing for bankruptcy and defaulting on their mortgages.

#solidarity

Morris Wanchuk is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:21 AM
  #713
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,853
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Told that PA proposed that players get last year's share plus 5 pct this yr regardless of schedule length/actual revenue...

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Last year's share was 1.883B...plus 5 pct would be $1.977B...would likely eat 65-67 pct of revenue in 66-68 game season.

Morris Wanchuk is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:22 AM
  #714
the negotiator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 138
vCash: 500
If that is the truly the sticking point then Fehr/ the players quickly become the bad guys in the eyes of the pubic...not that he particularly cares.

I hope this is a case of Fehr negotiating to the last nickel and not another example of personalities getting in the way of objective thinking.

the negotiator is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:23 AM
  #715
chuckdobbins
Moderator
 
chuckdobbins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,430
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Part of me wants to see the season cancelled so I can hear about these low level players filing for bankruptcy and defaulting on their mortgages.

#solidarity
Funny to throw it in the faces of the richie rich top tier guys, but not funny for the league minimum guys. I would hope that most guys have a massive savings account and plenty of liquid assets for cases like this though.

chuckdobbins is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:23 AM
  #716
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
Thats the issue?? @$@&&!&@

I hope everyone catches on to that.

No, players should not be paid for games lost. Unless that's the only way to complete make whole
Yes sir and further to that, when it was tweeted by (I cant remember who but I believe it was Pierre LeBrun yesterday) Krys Barch who we all know because of his drunken twitter attack a few weeks back asked him to explain that offer to him via twitter (so obviously not aware of it).

He later deleted that tweet and re-tweeted this:

Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Told NHL willing to guarantee $211 million as part of Make Whole to players... NHLPA doesn't agree with league's model or $$...not good day
Retweeted by Krys Barch
So, does that sound like an informed member of the NHLPA ?

Needless to say, Barch's twitter has been silent since.

and his previous re-tweet to the LeBrun one:

Quote:
Steve Ott ‏@otterN9NE
Who's the Dummy that keeps leaking these memo's to the media. You should be embarrassed with urself for being such a loser! #WakeUp
Retweeted by Krys Barch

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:25 AM
  #717
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
It's all semantics really, on how you want to interpret it all.

Were there several players present? Define several. The number of players attending has dropped like butterflies in the last few meetings, starting at 14 a few days ago and down to 5 yesterday.

Did Fehr withhold information? Again, depends on how you interpret the information.

- The league has guaranteed existing contracts

- The NHLPA (by omission) says it hasn't

The difference: The NHL is guaranteeing this season's pro-rated ie minus the games not played

Now, this is the key: The NHLPA wants the players paid in full for this season ie paid for games not played.

If you believe the players should be paid for games not going to be played then I guess you should believe there is no guarantee and Fehr is correct in saying that there is no 100% guarantee

If you believe players are NOT entitled to be paid for games not played, then you should believe the NHL is guaranteeing the contracts 100% and that the info should have been passed onto the membership.
Leaving aside agreement or disagreement, I find the notion that players are deliberately being kept in the dark to be not only absurd but frankly impossible.

As for the negotiations, that certainly sounds like a negotiable point, to say the least. As Friedman said, the gloves are off.

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:27 AM
  #718
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,853
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Leaving aside agreement or disagreement, I find the notion that players are deliberately being kept in the dark to be not only absurd but frankly impossible.

As for the negotiations, that certainly sounds like a negotiable point, to say the least. As Friedman said, the gloves are off.
Yes because union heads always look out for their constituents and not for them selves.

Go tell that to the mafia.

Morris Wanchuk is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:29 AM
  #719
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
Yes sir and further to that, when it was tweeted by (I cant remember who but I believe it was Pierre LeBrun yesterday) Krys Barch who we all know because of his drunken twitter attack a few weeks back asked him to explain that offer to him via twitter (so obviously not aware of it).

He later deleted that tweet and re-tweeted this:



So, does that sound like an informed member of the NHLPA ?

Needless to say, Barch's twitter has been silent since.

and his previous re-tweet to the LeBrun one:
You're citing Barch? Seriously?

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:30 AM
  #720
KnightofBoston
MVP
 
KnightofBoston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amherst, Ma
Country: United States
Posts: 12,494
vCash: 500
Nope it doesnt

Question : can players force a vote and override Fehr?

KnightofBoston is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:31 AM
  #721
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Yes because union heads always look out for their constituents and not for them selves.

Go tell that to the mafia.
The mafia? You think someone is threatening to kill the players if they step out of line?

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:33 AM
  #722
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
Nope it doesnt

Question : can players force a vote and override Fehr?
That's what the owners are hoping for.

Artemis is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:33 AM
  #723
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Leaving aside agreement or disagreement, I find the notion that players are deliberately being kept in the dark to be not only absurd but frankly impossible.

As for the negotiations, that certainly sounds like a negotiable point, to say the least. As Friedman said, the gloves are off.
Again, When Krys Barch asks a member of the media to explain a proposal that wasn't included in the memo from Don Fehr and then deletes that tweet only to re-tweet what the offer supposedly was - that is an un-informed player trying to get information from someone other than those doing the negotiating on his and his fellow members part.

Fehr could have easily said "The NHL has offered this in the make whole negotiations but it does not include 100% salary for this season:...."

I don't know...is that withholding information? Again, its semantics

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:35 AM
  #724
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,931
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
You're citing Barch? Seriously?
Yes I'm citing Barch. Is he not a player and a member of the NHLPA who wasn't made aware of the offer? At least he has the balls to ask publicly.

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
11-10-2012, 08:38 AM
  #725
Morris Wanchuk
.......
 
Morris Wanchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: War Memorial Arena
Country: United States
Posts: 14,853
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Morris Wanchuk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
The mafia? You think someone is threatening to kill the players if they step out of line?
No, it goes to show you that your beloved unions are not these upstanding organizations that everyones voice is heard and gets informed.

Morris Wanchuk is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.