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Jose Theodore to Montreal as a backup ?

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Old
11-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #26
LyricalLyricist
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Honestly, Budaj for Theo is most I'd do. Really no need as Carey plays like 70 games per season and playoffs. Florida wouldn't do that and reasonably so.

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Old
11-06-2012, 03:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Well, i wish the future will make you see why i want to get rid of Price.

Its not about his skill, its really about his contract and the goalies market.

My opinion is: with Price at 6 500 000$ behind the pipe, we are at a disavantage at this position. (under the last CBA at least)

Just take a look at the past stanley cup Winner finalist:

2006: Carolina - Ward (684 000$) / Edmonton - Roloson (1 672 000$)
2007: Anaheim - Giguere (3 990 000$) / Ottawa - Emery (925 000$)
2008: Detroit - Osgood (800 000$) / Pittsburg - Fleury (1 300 000$)
2009: Pittsburg - Fleury (5 000 000$ / Detroit - Osgood (1 500 000$)
2010: Chicago - Niemi (826 875$) / Philadelphia - Leighton (600 000$)
2011: Thomas (5 000 000$) / Luongo (5 333 333$)
2012: Quick (1 800 000$) / (5 200 000$)

Dont you see a trend here? since the lockout only 2 teams did make it to the final with a league top 10 paid goalie $. (Vancouver 2012 and Pittsburg in 2010, maybe Brodeur and giguere too, i didnt verify) While many of them did make it with a very cheap paid goalie.

With Price at 6 500 000$ we will probably join the rank of Calgary, Carolina, Florida (with Vokoun), Toronto (with Giguere) who didnt had any success while they gave big $ to their goalie.

Of course people will reply: Price do is best, the problem is: we dont have a good team! But by taking 6 500 000$ Price would be one of the reason we cant have a better team up front (by investing his salary elsewhere). He is paid to make up for it and make the difference by allowing us to win night after night, but will he?

Ward, Kiprusoff, Giguere, Huet, Vokoun, bryzgalov didnt make the difference despite their salary: i wonder how Price and Rinne will do now (rinne so far is not doing anything significant in the KHL).
With Quick at 5.8, I guess LA will never be competitive again? 6.5 is just a number. Compared to a lot of teams montreal can spend to the cap and others cannot. If you're worried about half a mil as to why Price is holding us back you're really forcing it.

Do you feel Philly won't be competitive now as they are wasting cash on Pronger who's cap hit counts even if he retires? What about the rangers, having now acquired nash at a tag of 7.8 mil? Is LA done because Quick now makes 5.8? The list goes on and on, you worry too much. This isn't Gomez territory, montreal spends way more than average anyway, if we're worried about a few mil its just an excuse for our failures as we already have advantage.

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Old
11-06-2012, 03:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Honestly, Budaj for Theo is most I'd do. Really no need as Carey plays like 70 games per season and playoffs. Florida wouldn't do that and reasonably so.
Maybe I should have put it in the OP, but the point of trading for Theo would be giving less games to Price without having to play a guy like Budaj. Plus he has good history in Montreal and if Price ever gets hurt (hoping never), we'd have a guy that can play as starter like he did for Florida. Florida does this because they have Clemm and there's Markstrom who's waiting for his opportunity. We'd send them a decent player and a late pick. Not sure who they'd want though ...

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11-06-2012, 03:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Maybe I should have put it in the OP, but the point of trading for Theo would be giving less games to Price without having to play a guy like Budaj. Plus he has good history in Montreal and if Price ever gets hurt (hoping never), we'd have a guy that can play as starter like he did for Florida. Florida does this because they have Clemm and there's Markstrom who's waiting for his opportunity. We'd send them a decent player and a late pick. Not sure who they'd want though ...
It was implied. I mean, theo is better than budaj and can help Price for sure, but I don't see a particular NEED for it is all. I mean, habs don't see playoff bound to me so we'd be saving price's energy for the golf course.

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11-06-2012, 03:21 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Maybe I should have put it in the OP, but the point of trading for Theo would be giving less games to Price without having to play a guy like Budaj. Plus he has good history in Montreal and if Price ever gets hurt (hoping never), we'd have a guy that can play as starter like he did for Florida....
"A guy like Budaj"? He's had 50+ game seasons in the NHL in the past, and last season looked quite decent for us. I wouldn't feel any particular advantage in turning to Theodore vs. turning to Budaj, at this point in their respective careers.

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11-06-2012, 05:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
With Quick at 5.8, I guess LA will never be competitive again? 6.5 is just a number. Compared to a lot of teams montreal can spend to the cap and others cannot. If you're worried about half a mil as to why Price is holding us back you're really forcing it.

Do you feel Philly won't be competitive now as they are wasting cash on Pronger who's cap hit counts even if he retires? What about the rangers, having now acquired nash at a tag of 7.8 mil? Is LA done because Quick now makes 5.8? The list goes on and on, you worry too much. This isn't Gomez territory, montreal spends way more than average anyway, if we're worried about a few mil its just an excuse for our failures as we already have advantage.

Flyers was indeed less successful with a top paid Bryzgalov than the average of the last few years. I also think they wont be as much competitive than if they could spend Pronger money elsewhere.

Well, if the next CBA doesnt change too many parameter...

Yes i believe LA will be less competitive now that they will pay Quick 5 800 000$, i also believe having a top goalie performance for a mere 1 800 000$ was a factor in winning the cup.

The same can be say for Nashville with Rinne at 7 000 000$

I have no problem paying Nash 7 800 000$ this is not a bad deal according to the market. While there are goalie like quick giving top performance for 1 800 000$, Smith at 2 000 000$; how many under 2 000 000$ (not on ELC) forwards can give Nash performance ?

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11-06-2012, 06:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
What about a trade involving Price, Theodore and one of the promising Florida young players?
Ehh, why would Florida do this?...

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11-06-2012, 07:15 PM
  #33
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It's just a matter of time before the city of Montreal chews up and spits out Carey Price. He's making the big bucks now and if he plays poor, he'll get crucified.

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11-06-2012, 07:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
It's just a matter of time before the city of Montreal chews up and spits out Carey Price. He's making the big bucks now and if he plays poor, he'll get crucified.
I take it you don't follow the Habs much. If he can survive the year after Halak was traded, he won't have any problem because he's making more money now.

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11-06-2012, 07:50 PM
  #35
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I take it you don't follow the Habs much. If he can survive the year after Halak was traded, he won't have any problem because he's making more money now.
If he struggles, the fans are going to be ruthless as they are to every goalie that plays there. I do follow the habs a lot and if a goalie who won the franchise two Stanley Cups can get taunted out of town, then any goalie can.

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11-06-2012, 09:52 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Flyers was indeed less successful with a top paid Bryzgalov than the average of the last few years. I also think they wont be as much competitive than if they could spend Pronger money elsewhere.

Well, if the next CBA doesnt change too many parameter...

Yes i believe LA will be less competitive now that they will pay Quick 5 800 000$, i also believe having a top goalie performance for a mere 1 800 000$ was a factor in winning the cup.

The same can be say for Nashville with Rinne at 7 000 000$

I have no problem paying Nash 7 800 000$ this is not a bad deal according to the market. While there are goalie like quick giving top performance for 1 800 000$, Smith at 2 000 000$; how many under 2 000 000$ (not on ELC) forwards can give Nash performance ?
Although I know Nash is better, Desharnais made more points than him at peanuts. Call it whatever you want but Quick and Price are relatively equal IMO. The fact LA did not lose core pieces and are same team only with Quick getting paid more shouldn't really make them less of a contender. Same with the habs, Price is 1 guy. The rest count.

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11-06-2012, 10:33 PM
  #37
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I much prefer "a guy like Budaj" than "a guy like Theodore", personally.

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11-07-2012, 03:31 AM
  #38
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I much prefer "a guy like Budaj" than "a guy like Theodore", personally.
and i could do without the guaranteed french drama...

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11-07-2012, 07:42 PM
  #39
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What would really light it up is if he headed to PHO and then moved... To Quebec city.

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11-07-2012, 11:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
If he struggles, the fans are going to be ruthless as they are to every goalie that plays there. I do follow the habs a lot and if a goalie who won the franchise two Stanley Cups can get taunted out of town, then any goalie can.
Yeah I mean it's not as though a guy named Mario Tremblay played a role in Roy's departure at all.

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Old
11-08-2012, 12:29 AM
  #41
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This thread has gone in the "a bit pointless" direction. The value is equal to the amount of interest: Low.

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11-08-2012, 01:41 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Well, i wish the future will make you see why i want to get rid of Price.

Its not about his skill, its really about his contract and the goalies market.

My opinion is: with Price at 6 500 000$ behind the pipe, we are at a disavantage at this position. (under the last CBA at least)

Just take a look at the past stanley cup Winner finalist:

2006: Carolina - Ward (684 000$) / Edmonton - Roloson (1 672 000$)
2007: Anaheim - Giguere (3 990 000$) / Ottawa - Emery (925 000$)
2008: Detroit - Osgood (800 000$) / Pittsburg - Fleury (1 300 000$)
2009: Pittsburg - Fleury (5 000 000$ / Detroit - Osgood (1 500 000$)
2010: Chicago - Niemi (826 875$) / Philadelphia - Leighton (600 000$)
2011: Thomas (5 000 000$) / Luongo (5 333 333$)
2012: Quick (1 800 000$) / (5 200 000$)

Dont you see a trend here? since the lockout only 2 teams did make it to the final with a league top 10 paid goalie $. (Vancouver 2012 and Pittsburg in 2010, maybe Brodeur and giguere too, i didnt verify) While many of them did make it with a very cheap paid goalie.

With Price at 6 500 000$ we will probably join the rank of Calgary, Carolina, Florida (with Vokoun), Toronto (with Giguere) who didnt had any success while they gave big $ to their goalie.

Of course people will reply: Price do is best, the problem is: we dont have a good team! But by taking 6 500 000$ Price would be one of the reason we cant have a better team up front (by investing his salary elsewhere). He is paid to make up for it and make the difference by allowing us to win night after night, but will he?

Ward, Kiprusoff, Giguere, Huet, Vokoun, bryzgalov didnt make the difference despite their salary: i wonder how Price and Rinne will do now (rinne so far is not doing anything significant in the KHL).
Correlation does not imply causation.

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11-08-2012, 10:21 PM
  #43
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Habs didn't sign Biron for less money than Budaj to avoid the french drama
Don't see this happening

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11-09-2012, 07:47 AM
  #44
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What a ridiculous thread, it's all over the damn place.

Theo will likely retire a Panther, and Panthers don't have an interest in acquiring Price for players like Huberdeau and/or Gudbranson (who's out with an injury for a bit anyway). Price is a premier goalie, but the Panthers have had premier goalies and lacked talent up front, got us nowhere. Not likely to do that again.

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11-09-2012, 08:25 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I have no problem paying Nash 7 800 000$ this is not a bad deal according to the market. While there are goalie like quick giving top performance for 1 800 000$, Smith at 2 000 000$; how many under 2 000 000$ (not on ELC) forwards can give Nash performance ?
7.8 million is a terrible deal for 59 points. Pacioretty, Desharnais and Cole all had more points than Nash this year and if you combined all their salaries last year you still wouldn't get 7.8 million.

As for the cheap goaltender winning the cup argument, for one, correlation doesn't mean causation. Two, would Price have been paid 6.5 million back in 2007? No. But the salary cap has gone up and so have salaries, it's not fair to compare Price's salary signed this summer with ones that were signed 5 or 6 years ago.

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:28 AM
  #46
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Theodore

We did not sign him long term in the past and when he play here the net is like a soccer net for shooters... NO Thanks Teo

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11-10-2012, 06:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
What a ridiculous thread, it's all over the damn place.

Theo will likely retire a Panther, and Panthers don't have an interest in acquiring Price for players like Huberdeau and/or Gudbranson (who's out with an injury for a bit anyway). Price is a premier goalie, but the Panthers have had premier goalies and lacked talent up front, got us nowhere. Not likely to do that again.
I agree and nor do the Habs have any intrest what so ever on trading Price for players like Huberdeau / Gudbranson .

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11-10-2012, 09:23 AM
  #48
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Yes i believe LA will be less competitive now that they will pay Quick 5 800 000$, i also believe having a top goalie performance for a mere 1 800 000$ was a factor in winning the cup.
The Kings have 7m cap space atm. Quick's cap hit is a complete non-factor, as is Price's cap hit and many other ''high salary goalie'' teams.

You need an extremely stacked or overpaid group of players to not have any cap space left for a good goaltender. The goalie is one (if not the) most important player on the team, and good ones (the ones you think are not worth their salaries) can play most of their team's games, and when they play they are on the ice at all times. Teams that apply your philosophy of trying to find a cheap goalie to win actually never wins or are lucky enough to have incredible teams already (and not because they saved a couple millions with their goaltending). ''Cheap'' goalies on cup winning teams (like Ward, MAF and Quick were) are usually young star goalie prospects, guys you can't pick up often then dump every time they get off their ELC.

You don't seem to understand salary is handed out trough pure economic thinking. If good goalies were truly dime a dozen then why do some of them get such big salaries? If good cheap goalies are so easy to find, then why are they cheap to begin with?

By answering these two questions you'll quickly see your reasoning is flawed. I remember you posting about the virtues of cheap goalies and evils those that get a good player's salary all the time, its about time it gets addressed properly.


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