I just have no idea why the players would hire a non-hockey person as the head of their organization.
I just have no idea why the owners would hire a non hockey person as the head of their organization.
I would be willing to bet all these accusations are false. You don't get to where Fehr is
by pissing off the guys you work for... it's bad for business. There's no way he withheld information from the players.
A list of defenders better than EJ in their own end.
Anyone have some good highlight videos tucked away?
Who cares. The Avs, and pretty much all of their players, have become incredibly underrated the last few years. I like it better when people underappreciate our players.
A list of defenders better than EJ in their own end.
Anyone have some good highlight videos tucked away?
I wish, but it doesn't even matter. People can't get over the fact he was picked first overall and hasn't lived up to his pre-draft potential. Norris or bust.
So #16 defensively and he was #21 in a poll for best d-man a few months back. These are polls that EVERYONE vote in but yeah, we should believe "MandylovesChocci" or whatever.
Yeah, CLEARLY if Colorado offered Johnson for Bieksa, the Canucks would say no.
If these were my forums, I'd permanently ban that user for trolling or lack of hockey knowledge...take your pick.
I'm a huge Andrew MacDonald fan and Fayne is pretty underrated but lol. Does someone seriously think that no1 dman Petry, Greene, Hjalmarsson, Butlet, Kuba Johnny Boychuk lol, or Bieksa are clearly better defensively than Johnson? Lol Shattenkirk's on the list.
Johnson's a top pairing dman under a coach with poor defensive organization, I'm fairly sure he's top 65.
Erik Johnson, 65th best dman defensively avatar...
Who cares. The Avs, and pretty much all of their players, have become incredibly underrated the last few years. I like it better when people underappreciate our players.
Yeah, our 29th, 28th and 20th positions to finish the season the last three years out of four is just an illusion. "Secretly" we are a great team, but we just aren't telling people yet.
I just have no idea why the owners would hire a non hockey person as the head of their organization.
I would be willing to bet all these accusations are false. You don't get to where Fehr is
by pissing off the guys you work for... it's bad for business. There's no way he withheld information from the players.
When he was hired he wasn't a hockey person, but now he fully is a hockey fan.
PA hiring Fehr knowing of his history right before a potential lockout is far from a smart move and we're suffering from it. Do you think if we had the Union's leader of the NFL we would be playing hockey? I would say yes.
When he was hired he wasn't a hockey person, but now he fully is a hockey fan.
PA hiring Fehr knowing of his history right before a potential lockout is far from a smart move and we're suffering from it. Do you think if we had the Union's leader of the NFL we would be playing hockey? I would say yes.
Many of us said the same thing , when we saw Fehr in the picture. The season were heading straight into the wall as soon as he got there. I know the owners are not perfect , they did a lot bad moves this summer with their stupid contracts , just b4 the new CBA . But to me, I blame Fehr at 100%, it's his fault if we dont have any hockey , right now.
Cowen out for the season after hip surgery and he already missed lots of time after ACL surgery a few years ago. Hate to see talented young guys with injury problems like that.
When he was hired he wasn't a hockey person, but now he fully is a hockey fan.
PA hiring Fehr knowing of his history right before a potential lockout is far from a smart move and we're suffering from it. Do you think if we had the Union's leader of the NFL we would be playing hockey? I would say yes.
I would consider it a genius move by the PA. I don't know about you Seph but I'd rather have a guy I know that is looking for my best interests and not a fan who just wants to watch hockey. Who knows maybe in 20 yrs Ferh will be a hockey while still being the head of the PA. It worked out great for the owners hiring a non hockey guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
Many of us said the same thing , when we saw Fehr in the picture. The season were heading straight into the wall as soon as he got there. I know the owners are not perfect , they did a lot bad moves this summer with their stupid contracts , just b4 the new CBA . But to me, I blame Fehr at 100%, it's his fault if we dont have any hockey , right now.
Don't be ridiculous Frenchy, both parties are at fault hell the pa even offered to play the year under the old CBA the owners refused. It's 50/50 between owners and players.
Don't be ridiculous Frenchy, both parties are at fault hell the pa even offered to play the year under the old CBA the owners refused. It's 50/50 between owners and players.
I agree about the whole 50/50 blame thing (although it's starting to fall more on the players for me), but you don't honestly believe the whole playing under the old CBA spewl do you? Won't ever happen again since Fehr led his players into a strike back in 1994.
I agree about the whole 50/50 blame thing (although it's starting to fall more on the players for me), but you don't honestly believe the whole playing under the old CBA spewl do you? Won't ever happen again since Fehr led his players into a strike back in 1994.
The only way that would happen is if Bettman made Fehr sign a contract stating that players have to finish the whole 12-13 season without any interruption. Knowing Fehr he would never agree to it.
I would consider it a genius move by the PA. I don't know about you Seph but I'd rather have a guy I know that is looking for my best interests and not a fan who just wants to watch hockey. Who knows maybe in 20 yrs Ferh will be a hockey while still being the head of the PA. It worked out great for the owners hiring a non hockey guy.
It depends, if you're a star player then absolutely. If I was a 4th liner I am HATING this lockout.
Remember some players are losing their jobs because of Fehr.
Don't be ridiculous Frenchy, both parties are at fault hell the pa even offered to play the year under the old CBA the owners refused. It's 50/50 between owners and players.
Come on , Fehr started a strike in Baseball right in the middle of the season , he had the US at his feets in the 94 strike that destroyed , once and for all the expos . Fehr care only about one thing , to be right and win , The guy is on a power trip and have an ego the size of free willy ( well i wanted to say the size of my ex's mom , but you guys dont know her )
forget about the 50/50 , that they wanted to play without a deal everything else the players are crying about on TV . The fact is that the salaries have raised like crazy and no matter what, none of them will lose any money in the long run . Except for those guys who are fighting to be and stay in the NHL and trust me none of the players who makes millions and Fehr care about those AHL/4th lines guys.
Last week , everyone were high on that news that Maybe they were close to a deal and that the two parties are talking seriously on an agreement to play hockey soon ... the next day Maxim Talbot and david Deharnais put their signatures on a contract to go play in Europe ... what ? That's not what i would call good faith on the player side.
Fehr have one thing in mind , to come out on top no matter what and i suspect that if he could, he would take away that cap completely in the new CBA. Dont forget the rumours about the possibility of a soft cap , last week .
In all the 30 teams , i would say that only 10 teams +/- are making alot of money and the rest of the teams struggle to make profit and in some case some of them dont make money.
...But in the mean time you see guys like J. Eberle who was making a little under 1.2 million this year, on his entry contract and boom!! will make 6millions next year ... poor players, that's something like a 600% raise +/-.
The only way that would happen is if Bettman made Fehr sign a contract stating that players have to finish the whole 12-13 season without any interruption. Knowing Fehr he would never agree to it.
I think a lot of people are not exactly getting that Ferh's job is only to negotiate and advise the players he can't reject offers himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H
It depends, if you're a star player then absolutely. If I was a 4th liner I am HATING this lockout.
Remember some players are losing their jobs because of Fehr.
If your talking about individuals then yes, some players are probably hating this lockout. In general tho I think most have accept it's the best for them in the long run. They are united more so than the owners, one has even bought tv rights for KHL games.
@Frency Yes, Ferh is an ruthless negotiator, that's his job... to get the best deal for his client. If the players don't like it, they can fire him.
Who do you think gives these kids like Eberle those contracts? The owners should be a lot more disciplined, I mean even in the summer you had teams offer 100 millions on players. How would you like it if I told you, you're getting X amount of dollars for a job then a couple of months later I say sorry I can't actually afford that, how about taking 10% less?
I think a lot of people are not exactly getting that Ferh's job is only to negotiate and advise the players he can't reject offers himself.
If your talking about individuals then yes, some players are probably hating this lockout. In general tho I think most have accept it's the best for them in the long run. They are united more so than the owners, one has even bought tv rights for KHL games.
@Frency Yes, Ferh is an ruthless negotiator, that's his job... to get the best deal for his client. If the players don't like it, they can fire him.
Who do you think gives these kids like Eberle those contracts? The owners should be a lot more disciplined, I mean even in the summer you had teams offer 100 millions on players. How would you like it if I told you, you're getting X amount of dollars for a job then a couple of months later I say sorry I can't actually afford that, how about taking 10% less?
Whilst the owners offered those contracts, the NHL registered each and every contract knowing full well there was to be a CBA coming up.
It show a real break down in communication, both ways.
Come on , Fehr started a strike in Baseball right in the middle of the season , he had the US at his feets in the 94 strike that destroyed , once and for all the expos . Fehr care only about one thing , to be right and win , The guy is on a power trip and have an ego the size of free willy ( well i wanted to say the size of my ex's mom , but you guys dont know her )
forget about the 50/50 , that they wanted to play without a deal everything else the players are crying about on TV . The fact is that the salaries have raised like crazy and no matter what, none of them will lose any money in the long run . Except for those guys who are fighting to be and stay in the NHL and trust me none of the players who makes millions and Fehr care about those AHL/4th lines guys.
Last week , everyone were high on that news that Maybe they were close to a deal and that the two parties are talking seriously on an agreement to play hockey soon ... the next day Maxim Talbot and david Deharnais put their signatures on a contract to go play in Europe ... what ? That's not what i would call good faith on the player side.
Fehr have one thing in mind , to come out on top no matter what and i suspect that if he could, he would take away that cap completely in the new CBA. Dont forget the rumours about the possibility of a soft cap , last week .
In all the 30 teams , i would say that only 10 teams +/- are making alot of money and the rest of the teams struggle to make profit and in some case some of them dont make money.
...But in the mean time you see guys like J. Eberle who was making a little under 1.2 million this year, on his entry contract and boom!! will make 6millions next year ... poor players, that's something like a 600% raise +/-.
That's what's wrong with Hockey , if you ask me .
As far as blame goes, both parties are at fault but does Donald Fehr really think the average fan keeping tabs on the lockout is THAT dumb? "We would have been fine starting the season under the current CBA..." Oh really? You can't even show up for a 10am meeting until 4pm, I'm sure the league would love to schedule bargaining sessions in October only to have you show up in March.
As far as the 2nd part, I'm not sure I necessarily agree. Eberle is one of the best offensive players in the NHL. A $6M per year contract, isn't out of whack for what he's been able to bring to the table for the past 2 years when you compare him with others, so the only issue is that he's still only 22 years old. Pay him now or pay him later, you're still paying him. As long as you're not paying him a huge amount because he might potentially play at that level, I don't really have a problem with this.
In the end, Fehr is an idiot because the players are NOT going to win this. It's generally STILL the same owners who were there when the league shut down last time and there's no real indication that they won't do it again. If anyone on the NHLPA really believes they are well served by waiting this out, they are sorely mistaken and it's a huge miscalculation. When you think about an NHL player, this is what they do, this is ALL they do. When you think about an NHL owner, let's say Stan Kroenke, he's got a bunch of projects here an there. He likes having an NHL team but in many ways, it's like a toy...one of many that he has and if it goes on the shelf for a while, so be it. Now, obviously, that's an oversimplification but basically, I really don't understand how any logical, reason-minded NHLer can think of this any other way. The players just aren't going to win in the end. It maybe sad, it might even be completely unfair, but it's just the way it is.
There was an article yesterday on TSN.ca and quotes from Mark Recchi, who went through THREE lockouts and he's 100% correct.
Then I see retweets from players and media that Recchi should shut up because he's not a player anymore. Jeez guys, why don't you try to learn from his experience? He's got nothing to GAIN by saying what he thinks, it's not like the owners are giving him money to say this, it's just how he feels.
As far as blame goes, both parties are at fault but does Donald Fehr really think the average fan keeping tabs on the lockout is THAT dumb? "We would have been fine starting the season under the current CBA..." Oh really? You can't even show up for a 10am meeting until 4pm, I'm sure the league would love to schedule bargaining sessions in October only to have you show up in March.
As far as the 2nd part, I'm not sure I necessarily agree. Eberle is one of the best offensive players in the NHL. A $6M per year contract, isn't out of whack for what he's been able to bring to the table for the past 2 years when you compare him with others, so the only issue is that he's still only 22 years old. Pay him now or pay him later, you're still paying him. As long as you're not paying him a huge amount because he might potentially play at that level, I don't really have a problem with this.
In the end, Fehr is an idiot because the players are NOT going to win this. It's generally STILL the same owners who were there when the league shut down last time and there's no real indication that they won't do it again. If anyone on the NHLPA really believes they are well served by waiting this out, they are sorely mistaken and it's a huge miscalculation. When you think about an NHL player, this is what they do, this is ALL they do. When you think about an NHL owner, let's say Stan Kroenke, he's got a bunch of projects here an there. He likes having an NHL team but in many ways, it's like a toy...one of many that he has and if it goes on the shelf for a while, so be it. Now, obviously, that's an oversimplification but basically, I really don't understand how any logical, reason-minded NHLer can think of this any other way. The players just aren't going to win in the end. It maybe sad, it might even be completely unfair, but it's just the way it is.
There was an article yesterday on TSN.ca and quotes from Mark Recchi, who went through THREE lockouts and he's 100% correct.
Then I see retweets from players and media that Recchi should shut up because he's not a player anymore. Jeez guys, why don't you try to learn from his experience? He's got nothing to GAIN by saying what he thinks, it's not like the owners are giving him money to say this, it's just how he feels.
My Jordan Eberly point wasnt on the fact that the guy isnt talented and that he didnt deserved that kind of money , and yes to answer Ronaldo the owners gave him that kind of money and the 100 millions that they gave to the UFA(s) , just b4 the end of the CBA that dont look good at all for the owners . i will never argue that point .
My point with Eberly is that giving a raise of about 600% to a player , no matter how talented he can be is something that the NHL should correct. No argument there , every star players should and must be paid the right amount of money . But it's the way to get there that the NHL should work on , a 600% raise is to much .
Under the old CBA in 2004 , they NHL said that with a salary cap you will get a parity between teams . True in some way , but there are alot more work to be done . From a small market POV a 600% raise is scary as hell .
I know that i'm probably dreaming and it wont happend , but i truly believe that the NHL should do something about it , no matter how long it would take to fix this .
As someone said in the Business of Hockey forum on the Lockout
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101
The fake deadlines Fehr has been talking about...he probably thinks the real one is in April. Then he can start negotiating off a real deadline. Play into September, two week break and then start the 2013-2014 season...am I right, Fehr?
League said if a deal isn't signed by September 15th, we're going to a lockout. Deal didn't happen on the 15th, players locked out.
Leagues says deal needs to be made by November 25 in order to salvage a reworked 82 game season. Deal didn't happen, 82 game season lost and hasn't been offered since.
What about these deadlines does Fehr think is fake?
My Jordan Eberly point wasnt on the fact that the guy isnt talented and that he didnt deserved that kind of money , and yes to answer Ronaldo the owners gave him that kind of money and the 100 millions that they gave to the UFA(s) , just b4 the end of the CBA that dont look good at all for the owners . i will never argue that point .
My point with Eberly is that giving a raise of about 600% to a player , no matter how talented he can be is something that the NHL should correct. No argument there , every star players should and must be paid the right amount of money . But it's the way to get there that the NHL should work on , a 600% raise is to much .
Under the old CBA in 2004 , they NHL said that with a salary cap you will get a parity between teams . True in some way , but there are alot more work to be done . From a small market POV a 600% raise is scary as hell .
I know that i'm probably dreaming and it wont happend , but i truly believe that the NHL should do something about it , no matter how long it would take to fix this .
Ok thanks for clearing up what you were saying.
I think that the rookie cap that was put in place during the '95 lockout has a direct impact on this. If that wasn't in place, we'd still be seeing 1st round picks signed for multi-million dollar deals, much like the other sports leagues. While the top 5 picks still usually get massive bonus opportunities, it usually doesn't happen for guys picked lower in the first round and later.
I don't have a problem with Eberle getting $6 M. Better that they spend that $ on a guy like him rather than that $ staying in the pocket of some ******* owner like Katz if you ask me.
And for every two Eberle's making $6 M, there's a bargain Giroux making $3.75 M. In fact I wish that players could keep their 57% of revenue on the condition that they donate 5-7% of that to charity or put it aside for future player safety net funds.
I don't have a problem with Eberle getting $6 M. Better that they spend that $ on a guy like him rather than that $ staying in the pocket of some ******* owner like Katz if you ask me.
And for every two Eberle's making $6 M, there's a bargain Giroux making $3.75 M. In fact I wish that players could keep their 57% of revenue on the condition that they donate 5-7% of that to charity or put it aside for future player safety net funds.
If I am not mistaken, players got paid more than their contracts were worth last season.
I'm a big fan of the 'make whole' proponent, but only so far as it ensures players will not be paid very much less than their contracts or very much more than their contracts. Never made much sense to me that a guy could sign for 2mil and get 1.85mil or 2.15mil when he signed for 2mil. Nowhere else in the world can a regular Joe go to work and get that kind of increase in their day-day/yearly salary unless they own stock in the company and even then, that's not really your negotiated salary but something else altogether.
If I am not mistaken, players got paid more than their contracts were worth last season.
I'm a big fan of the 'make whole' proponent, but only so far as it ensures players will not be paid very much less than their contracts or very much more than their contracts. Never made much sense to me that a guy could sign for 2mil and get 1.85mil or 2.15mil when he signed for 2mil. Nowhere else in the world can a regular Joe go to work and get that kind of increase in their day-day/yearly salary unless they own stock in the company and even then, that's not really your negotiated salary but something else altogether.
Actually, my salary in an engineering department works like that, all of us have it. I have a fixed base salary of X, then another bit that pays out between 0 and .2 * X based on company performance (usually pays out at .1 - .15). some people don't have this, some have .05, my reports go up to .1 * X their salaries, as you go up the organization you'll see .3 to .5 based on company and department performance.
It gives the company flexibility in bad times (preventing layoffs from short term hiccups) and I'm rewarded when it does well too. Win-win in the long run. I think the escrow system is too.
