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Old
11-09-2012, 11:57 AM
  #151
Dr Danglefest
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When I saw the title of the thread my immediate reaction was "oh dear god" and while its not terrible it's outrageously unlikely

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:17 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Giving up significant value to fill needs is a great way to ensure that you have a mediocre to terrible team for the long run.

Making even trades to fill needs to great. However, this trade isn't even - it would be giving up far too much value from Edmonton's perspective.



Also a great post.
it's like trading your house to buy a car, ..because you need to get around.
this is what this trade basically is.

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
Quite the contrary. Huberdeau, Strome are better on offence, and the stats support that. Couturier, Scheifele are better all-around players, as well. Landeskog is a proven NHL star player now. Yakupov drops down in 2011 draft no doubt.
Huberdeau and Strome barely outscoring a player who is a year behind in development does not mean they are better offensively. I'm pretty sure Yakupov scored at a higher pace than all but Strome when you look at draft seasons. If you want to just look at junior scoring stats, are you saying Strome > Yakupov > Huberdeau > RNH >>> Landeskog? Landeskog is a proven star? I'm not sure I'd go that far, but even if he is it doesn't really mean anything because Yakupov hasn't played an NHL game yet. He is however, playing like a superstar in the best active hockey league in the World right now. Which is considerably more impressive than what Hamilton did in juniors after he was drafted. I don't know if Yakupov ran over your dog or something, but you're really undervaluing him here, he is absolutely a better prospect than Hamilton. If the two were in the same draft, I don't think there's a GM in the World that would draft Hamilton over Yakupov.

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Old
11-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
Acting as though the Bruins don't give up the best defensive prospect in the world and Seguin.... it's pretty even.

pretty even, yes...Edmonton still gives up too much, Boston would have to add, I agree.

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11-09-2012, 12:36 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
Acting as though the Bruins don't give up the best defensive prospect in the world and Seguin.... it's pretty even.
It's somewhat even but when dealing with stars/potential stars, small differences can become large ones quite easily.

Hall and Seguin are essentially a wash (if you look at the raw stats/rate stats/advanced stats it's actually eerily close)

Yakupov is worth more than Hamilton

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:02 PM
  #156
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Cazy outlandish proposal that neither team considers.
Boston does not trade the best defensive prospect in the world along with a franchise player in Seguin who could have easily been selected #1 ahead of Hall
Edmonton does not trade two potential/consistent 40- 50 goal scorers. The strength Oilers have on their wings will more then make up for their center weaknesses. (minus hopkins)

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:04 PM
  #157
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Boston & Edmonton should not be trading.

A more likely deal would be:

To FLA:
Eberle (or) Yakupov

To EDM:
Kulikov

Florida gets a young star to market their team, Edmonton gets a stud #1 dman while trading from a position of strength (wing)

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Old
11-09-2012, 01:06 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
It's somewhat even but when dealing with stars/potential stars, small differences can become large ones quite easily.

Hall and Seguin are essentially a wash (if you look at the raw stats/rate stats/advanced stats it's actually eerily close)

Yakupov is worth more than Hamilton


Maybe, Maybe not? A Hamilton for Yakupov trade right now for the Oilers looks pretty good, depite Yak's skill and potential. IMO-we need to spread the wealth around to other positions. A defence core of: Schultz, Smid, Petry, Klefbom, Hamilton, Marincin along with vets: Whitney, and Schultz looks great!

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:01 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Speaking from a purely NHL 13 Fantasy perspective...

Edmonton should probably do this, I think Seguin/Hall and Yakupov/Hamilton are close enough value wise where it makes it an even swap. I might say Seguin/Yakupov are worth more, but it evens out IMO.

Doing this trade would give the Oilers Seguin/RNH down the middle and have two stud prospects on the backend in Hamilton/Schultz. Would give the Bruins two top six wingers immediately, and having Krejci/Bergeron (who are already the centers now) is obviously the reasoning for being able to trade Seguin.

Speaking from a real life perspective.....

Neither team would do this, ever, ever.
unfortunately the left wing depth would be ryan jones, ben eager and ryan smyth

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Old
11-09-2012, 03:04 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Lets assume Hall and Seguin are a wash. Is there anyone out there that would take Hamilton ahead of Yakupov at this point?
This.

I hear Boston fans argument about him being a Chara replacement and it makes sense to me.

But in a vacumn without team needs Yakupov > Hamilton imo

I assume if the Oilers put Yakupov on the bloack they would want a more established dman and since Hall wont be traded the only part to discuss is Yak vs Hamilton

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Old
11-09-2012, 04:55 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Boston & Edmonton should not be trading.

A more likely deal would be:

To FLA:
Eberle (or) Yakupov

To EDM:
Kulikov

Florida gets a young star to market their team, Edmonton gets a stud #1 dman while trading from a position of strength (wing)
Pass, its debatable if Kulikov is a 1st pairing D and he's certainly not a stud D. Florida would also have to add for either Eberle or Yakupov.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:22 PM
  #162
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Edmonton would never do this. Doesn't make any sense.

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Old
11-09-2012, 09:25 PM
  #163
Johnny Bravo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Boston & Edmonton should not be trading.

A more likely deal would be:

To FLA:
Eberle (or) Yakupov

To EDM:
Kulikov

Florida gets a young star to market their team, Edmonton gets a stud #1 dman while trading from a position of strength (wing)
And by more likely I hope you mean unlikely.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:09 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I'm thinking Tambo & co will set their sights on a dman at this years draft.

BUT..what if the ball bounces Edmontons way again?!! MacKinnon will be difficult to pass up!
Don't count on the Oilers picking Mackinnon if they were in the same position.I don't think they would pass over Seth Jones.

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Old
11-10-2012, 02:00 AM
  #165
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This is so silly Hamilton and Yak are washes IMO, and Hamilton has greater value to Boston so ya....Seguin vs Hall us also equal so this trade IMO is pretty pointless and both teams come out even,or maybe even a little worse for were...there is no need for either team to trade it's young core players yet so I don't see the point of this trade just saying

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:12 AM
  #166
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Am I missing something?

Since when do we start calling Hamilton and first overall picks a "wash" in trade proposals?


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Old
11-10-2012, 11:35 AM
  #167
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Since at the moment Hamilton is more developed...imo Yak will become a solid 1st liner,and Hamilton a solid top pairingD, so ya it's a wash, you must need a reminder that prospects develop

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:40 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Am I missing something?

Since when do we start calling Hamilton and first overall picks a "wash" in trade proposals?

Hey now. Dougie is the best defensive prospect in the world, OK?

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:58 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Am I missing something?

Since when do we start calling Hamilton and first overall picks a "wash" in trade proposals?

Scouts said there was not much differnce between Hamilton and Larrson going in a few said he was higher, and then the next year his 72point 50 game season, he would have gone top 3 easily.

If Hamilton's birthday is a little earlier he is in 2012 draft and a top three either 1 or 2 but top three at worst.

Hf even has him at 3 in the world right now so the hf ranked 1 (Yak) and three, there is more value for Yak, but if you believe Hamilton will live up to the projections your getting a potential norris winner from the back end over a potential Hert winner on the front end. Its really if you value Defence or Offence more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hey now. Dougie is the best defensive prospect in the world, OK?
Who is better? Do you think there is someone better than him, because ther is not.

Right now Seguin can not really be compared to Hall.

Rookie years Seguin put on third line scratched a few nights very limited PP, more points per min than Hall linemates Ryder,Peverly
................Hall, came on slow, ended great, lots of PP time #1 forward line

Second years Seguin leads Bruins in scoring PO's and Regular season, much improoved defence 10-15 games at Center
.................. Hall good second year, ended with Injury again


Last edited by Kelly23: 11-10-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old
11-10-2012, 12:23 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Who is better? Do you think there is someone better than him, because ther is not.

Right now Seguin can not really be compared to Hall.

Rookie years Seguin put on third line scratched a few nights very limited PP, more points per min than Hall linemates Ryder,Peverly
................Hall, came on slow, ended great, lots of PP time #1 forward line

Second years Seguin leads Bruins in scoring PO's and Regular season, much improoved defence 10-15 games at Center
.................. Hall good second year, ended with Injury again
We've been through this before regarding Seguin. Sheltered minutes, playing alongside a Selke winner on a stacked veteran cup winning team. He was also benched for the cup winning playoffs.

Compared to Hall, who has taken on a much more advanced role for the Oilers, leading the offense, being a catalyst for that offense, and more than likely going to become the next captain of the Oilers. Hall brings characteristics that Seguin can only wish he had. Not only that, but he scores at and above the PPG of Seguin. So you're right, they really aren't comparable. If they are, it would be by draft position which accurately describes the two to a tee at this point in time with all things considered.

Points will never tell the whole story for Hall, but if you insist that it does then you must also uphold the same criteria for Hamilton, who during his "Breakout" OHL season managed to end up 4th overall in scoring amongst defenseman. To me, that says there were 3 other players who were better than him.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:35 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
We've been through this before regarding Seguin. Sheltered minutes, playing alongside a Selke winner on a stacked veteran cup winning team. He was also benched for the cup winning playoffs.

Compared to Hall, who has taken on a much more advanced role for the Oilers, leading the offense, being a catalyst for that offense, and more than likely going to become the next captain of the Oilers. Hall brings characteristics that Seguin can only wish he had. Not only that, but he scores at and above the PPG of Seguin. So you're right, they really aren't comparable. If they are, it would be by draft position which accurately describes the two to a tee at this point in time with all things considered.

Points will never tell the whole story for Hall, but if you insist that it does then you must also uphold the same criteria for Hamilton, who during his "Breakout" OHL season managed to end up 4th overall in scoring amongst defenseman. To me, that says there were 3 other players who were better than him.
You really want to get this going again? Both players are essentially interchangeable with how they are used on their respective teams, if roles and teams were reversed. Hall would have the sheltered bottom 6 minutes his rookie year while Seguin is spoon-fed PP time galore.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:38 PM
  #172
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Dougie is worth two times more Nail is worth from a Bruins' perspective. After Chara we have Seidenberg, and then... them. We have loads of wing prospects and all of our top-6 wingers are younger than 24 with the exception of Horton, who's 27.

None of our wing prospects are nearly as good as Nail, of course, but a stud defenseman is worth so much more than a stud winger to us, and period in my opinion.

Again, with Hall and Seguin they're so close. Neither team would trade either of them straight up for eachother. The value, surprisingly, isn't bad at all, but it's so insanely improbable.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:38 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Points will never tell the whole story for Hall, but if you insist that it does then you must also uphold the same criteria for Hamilton, who during his "Breakout" OHL season managed to end up 4th overall in scoring amongst defenseman. To me, that says there were 3 other players who were better than him.
If you also insist on using points measurement, then Nail Yakupov, in his 'breakout' 2010-11 OHL season, managed to end up 4th in scoring amongst forwards. That scoring list says there were three other OHL forwards who were better than Yakupov. And Jonathan Huberdeau scored 105 points in QMJHL in 2010-11, so make that four forwards.

OHL regular season 2010-11

1 Tyler Toffoli Ottawa 67's GP68/Pts. 108
2 Jason Akeson Kitchener Rangers GP67/Pts. 108
3 Ryan Strome Niagara IceDogs GP65/Pts. 106
4 Nail Yakupov Sarnia Sting GP65/Pts. 101

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:52 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
If you also insist on using points measurement, then Nail Yakupov, in his 'breakout' 2010-11 OHL season, managed to end up 4th in scoring amongst forwards. That scoring list says there were three other OHL forwards who were better than Yakupov. And Jonathan Huberdeau scored 105 points in QMJHL in 2010-11, so make that four forwards.

OHL regular season 2010-11

1 Tyler Toffoli Ottawa 67's GP68/Pts. 108
2 Jason Akeson Kitchener Rangers GP67/Pts. 108
3 Ryan Strome Niagara IceDogs GP65/Pts. 106
4 Nail Yakupov Sarnia Sting GP65/Pts. 101
No one in their right minds takes those 3 players before Yakupov. Seriously. I don't know what your trying to prove, but Yakupov is a far, far, far, far better prospect than than them.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:54 PM
  #175
Eennad142
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
No one in their right minds takes those 3 players before Yakupov. Seriously. I don't know what your trying to prove, but Yakupov is a far, far, far, far better prospect than than them.
Once you are able to get past the Yakupov >>>>> 'EveryOtherPlayer' agenda, we can settle this and move on.

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