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11-09-2012, 05:10 PM
  #976
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I don't see how anyone can side with the owners at this point. I certainly don't hear any media or NHL people siding with the owners on NHL radio.

The owners are offering absolutely nothing. They are demanding that only the players fix their spending habbits. They won't budge on the 200 million revenue sharing. Most believe the players are asking too little in 250 million. There are 10 teams running around ruining the NHL. These guys are making the overall numbers terrible when the majority of the owners are responsible. Yet, as a whole they are demanding the players fix their issues, not these irresponsible owners fixing themselves. 250 million is such a small number when considering the overall ratio involved.

Owners go out and spend like a truck driver who just won the lottery this offseason and then 2 months later they ask for it back. In what indistry does that work? They were willing to give the most absurd contracts in league history just a month prior and were beating eachother up to do it.

This is more a case of owners not being able to fight eachother so they fight their employees. Actually, some media people seem to believe they are at odds with eachother which is hurting the whole process. It's not the players fault these owners own a team in a bad market. That is all part of owning a business. It's not the players fault these same owners have manipulated the cap and found loopholes to knowingly hurt themsleves and the rest of the league. The players just show up and work. Well that is not true because they also live their life 24/7 as a walking billboard for the owners while they are not "on the clock". No player sends out incriminating photos of 8 owners and get them to bid eachother up.

What have the owners done for the fans? Nothing. The cost of tickets are second in north american sports when considering ratio to ticket price to net amount spent on product. Parking is the same as every other more popular sport. What have they given north american fans? Two lockouts in a decade. Every time there is a chance to lockout they do. They don't care about their fans. They care about fixing their own f' ups. They are safely in their luxury boxes (if even at games) or being escorted by limos everywhere in life. The players are on the streets rubbing elbows with the fans. The players are doing the publicity and charity events for their teams and the NHL without pay.

I just don't understand how it seems only message boards where the fans side with the owners. Nobody that covers the game blames them. They don't even blame GB. They blame the owners.

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11-09-2012, 05:16 PM
  #977
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I like this idea better! Especially if it means we get 4 games/week for the whole season.
That's just asking the players to put themselves at risk in order to fill the owners pockets. 4 hockey games a week. That is absurd. They had better give these players a year long pass and let them use whatever PED's they want.

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11-09-2012, 05:17 PM
  #978
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It's not the players' fault that their agents demanded that the owners' GMs circumvent the cap in order to sign the player.

Actually, it's not, but the owners certainly have a right to close any cap circumvention loop holes through the CBA process. If they all "did it on their own", the NHLPA would sue the owners for collusion.

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11-09-2012, 05:23 PM
  #979
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It's not the players' fault that their agents demanded that the owners' GMs circumvent the cap in order to sign the player.

Actually, it's not, but the owners certainly have a right to close any cap circumvention loop holes through the CBA process. If they all "did it on their own", the NHLPA would sue the owners for collusion.
That is such a small issue in this lockout. Probably 4th rung down the ladder.

Also, it's kind of hard for you to pin the circumvention on the players agents when the teams hire guys specifically to figure out how to get around the CBA.

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11-09-2012, 07:53 PM
  #980
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Both sides still far apart on player contracts issues. NHL still wants same changes. NHLPA says no way; feels 50-50 HRR is a huge concession
Same crap, different week.

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11-09-2012, 09:23 PM
  #981
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After thsese so-called meetings I would be shocked if there is a season! Amazing!

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11-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #982
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That is such a small issue in this lockout. Probably 4th rung down the ladder.

Also, it's kind of hard for you to pin the circumvention on the players agents when the teams hire guys specifically to figure out how to get around the CBA.
Both are guilty , you can't pin this on anyone side or person.

They are both trying to game the system.

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11-09-2012, 11:52 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by jbuntman View Post
LOL...just found this:



Man this is awesome. Kopi is fracking awesome haha, he should sport the stache if the lockout ever ends.

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11-10-2012, 12:27 AM
  #984
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I don't see how anyone can side with the owners at this point. I certainly don't hear any media or NHL people siding with the owners on NHL radio.

The owners are offering absolutely nothing. They are demanding that only the players fix their spending habbits. They won't budge on the 200 million revenue sharing. Most believe the players are asking too little in 250 million. There are 10 teams running around ruining the NHL. These guys are making the overall numbers terrible when the majority of the owners are responsible. Yet, as a whole they are demanding the players fix their issues, not these irresponsible owners fixing themselves. 250 million is such a small number when considering the overall ratio involved.

Owners go out and spend like a truck driver who just won the lottery this offseason and then 2 months later they ask for it back. In what indistry does that work? They were willing to give the most absurd contracts in league history just a month prior and were beating eachother up to do it.

This is more a case of owners not being able to fight eachother so they fight their employees. Actually, some media people seem to believe they are at odds with eachother which is hurting the whole process. It's not the players fault these owners own a team in a bad market. That is all part of owning a business. It's not the players fault these same owners have manipulated the cap and found loopholes to knowingly hurt themsleves and the rest of the league. The players just show up and work. Well that is not true because they also live their life 24/7 as a walking billboard for the owners while they are not "on the clock". No player sends out incriminating photos of 8 owners and get them to bid eachother up.

What have the owners done for the fans? Nothing. The cost of tickets are second in north american sports when considering ratio to ticket price to net amount spent on product. Parking is the same as every other more popular sport. What have they given north american fans? Two lockouts in a decade. Every time there is a chance to lockout they do. They don't care about their fans. They care about fixing their own f' ups. They are safely in their luxury boxes (if even at games) or being escorted by limos everywhere in life. The players are on the streets rubbing elbows with the fans. The players are doing the publicity and charity events for their teams and the NHL without pay.

I just don't understand how it seems only message boards where the fans side with the owners. Nobody that covers the game blames them. They don't even blame GB. They blame the owners.
Ummmm....I side with the owners, especially when you got a dip**** of an union boss coming at the league wanting it's members to be paid a full season for a 60-70 game season. Or a union boss who presents proposals tied to future revenue growth, but scoffs at offers from the NHL when they offer "make whole" tied to future revenue growth. I also have a problem when a union boss consistently shows up late to important negotiation meetings. I also have a problem when multiple reports come out that players are not getting all the league proposals information.
In my opinion Fehr is in this for his own ego. I would bet my first born, if you put the NHL's latest proposal to a vote, it would be excepted unanimously by the players. By players, I don't mean the "rich" ones that Fehr is mainly protecting. I mean the 400-500+ players that are really hurting from this lockout.


Last edited by Scottkmlps: 11-10-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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11-10-2012, 01:16 AM
  #985
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Ummmm....I side with the owners, especially when you got a dip**** of an union boss coming at the league wanting it's members to be paid a full season for a 60-70 game season. Or a union boss who presents proposals tied to future revenue growth, but scoffs at offers from the NHL when they offer "make whole" tied to future revenue growth. I also have a problem when a union boss consistently shows up late to important negotiation meetings. I also have a problem when multiple reports come out that players are not getting all the league proposals information.
In my opinion Fehr is in this for his own ego. I would bet my first born, if you put the NHL's latest proposal to a vote, it would be excepted unanimously by the players. By players, I don't mean the "rich" ones that Fehr is mainly protecting. I mean the 400-500+ players that are really hurting from this lockout.
Dude, you are so far out of touch with this post. It seems like you are just hearin snippets from random people and building your decision. There is so much involved here and your post is so obviously skimming the peel off the orange. Your revenue growth issue in your posts proves it to me.

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11-10-2012, 03:46 AM
  #986
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Dude, you are so far out of touch with this post. It seems like you are just hearin snippets from random people and building your decision. There is so much involved here and your post is so obviously skimming the peel off the orange. Your revenue growth issue in your posts proves it to me.
Can you please elaborate what he's out of touch on? I'm curious to know. What is exactly involved here in which you claim that there is "so much of"? You attack the guy yet you're not supporting your criticisms.

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11-10-2012, 09:58 AM
  #987
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I don't see how anyone can side with the owners at this point. I certainly don't hear any media or NHL people siding with the owners on NHL radio.

I just don't understand how it seems only message boards where the fans side with the owners. Nobody that covers the game blames them. They don't even blame GB. They blame the owners.
I side with the owners. 100%. Are they perfect - no. Are the players perfect - no.

The owners facilitate me watching NHL hockey. The players are not being mistreated in any way, shape or form. End of story.

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11-10-2012, 10:43 AM
  #988
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I side with the owners. 100%. Are they perfect - no. Are the players perfect - no.

The owners facilitate me watching NHL hockey. The players are not being mistreated in any way, shape or form. End of story.
The better the deal is for the owners the less likely there will be a lockout next time

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11-10-2012, 11:23 AM
  #989
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I think, at this point, it's a little farcical for ANYBODY supporting EITHER side to call another person "Out of touch."

The simple fact is both sides are out of touch. What's more disheartening is they are out of touch with their fan base, and in truth, reality.

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11-10-2012, 11:29 AM
  #990
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I think, at this point, it's a little farcical for ANYBODY supporting EITHER side to call another person "Out of touch."

The simple fact is both sides are out of touch. What's more disheartening is they are out of touch with their fan base, and in truth, reality.
Both sides know the fans well, Is anyone really not going to watch hockey when it comes back ?

Really ?

Both sides know their fans pretty darn well, Their are no armies of casual fans watching hockey... It's a myth.

The owners and players (that matter) know that.

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11-10-2012, 11:44 AM
  #991
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That's even worse. They are taking advantage of our dedication.

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11-10-2012, 03:49 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by ShattStar03 View Post
Can you please elaborate what he's out of touch on? I'm curious to know. What is exactly involved here in which you claim that there is "so much of"? You attack the guy yet you're not supporting your criticisms.
I assure you, I certainly did not intend for it to sound like I was attacking anyone. I understand it looked like aggressive dialogue but there is absolutely nothing that has been said in this thread that would generate a negative reaction from me towards another poster. If anything I was aggressively showing my disdain for bloggers and media who have a leg in this race and are purposely skewing the reports and driving a wrench between both sides so that their columns and blogs read like a comic book.

My thoughts on the current and past state of these talks have been discussed throughout this thread and were revisited at the top of this page. In regards to some of the topics that i responded to I'll briefly touch on them.

The part about the future revenue growth is typical for any bargaining whether it be customer service unions or any sports bargaining agreement. The make whole negotiations tying to future revenue growth is bunk because it shouldn't matter. In no circumstances are make whole negotiations even discusses unless we are talking about hockey and only because the players caved in the past. Many unions, lawyers and even corperation sides believe this to be unconstitutional. In any union representation I have been involved in any changes made are only discussed from the time pen meets paper, not essentially tearing up contracts that a team or corperation agreed with player or employee 2 months prior. Two years make whole thing is a slap to anyones face. Fehr and the union can't afford to continue to cave and get nothing back. Make no mistake, the owners are offering nothing. That is unless you believe taking away 7% instead of 14% is giving.

In regards to Fehr being criminalized by uneducated bloggers that have no knowlege of negatiations, business, or in 75% of the case any education, that is bull ****. Fehr is legendary. There is nothing he does that is not calculated. He showed up late one time to establish power in negotiations. It's a ploy that interrigators, negotiators, lawyers and anyone that wants to make themselves irreplaceable and the "power man" incorperate. He gets what he can for his employees and he was absolutely needed in this negotiation because the players got murdered in the last negotiation. The owners can't save eachother so they demand the players save them.

Also, if anyone thinks that Fehr is withholding information or skewing information to the players they are out to lunch. There are rules, laws and processes in place to prevent this. There are legal chains of commands, not to mention union reps and player reps which have been on hand with every step. Those that believe that have some sort of agenda against the guy.

The players simply can't walk away giving away everything again. Not when the owners have a history of no regard to anyones well being. Not the players, employees or fans. This will happen again.

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11-10-2012, 04:46 PM
  #993
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The players simply can't walk away giving away everything again.
Then they risk walking away with nothing.

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11-10-2012, 05:17 PM
  #994
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the players got murdered in the last negotiation. The owners can't save eachother so they demand the players save them.
Murdered is about the last word you could use for that. Because A) the players were still getting millions to play hockey, and B) the players ended up with more financial and contractual security than they know what to do with, because they didn't get completely screwed. So much so that they want at least the same deal, and Fehr wants more.

The PA was as willing to go just as far as the owners did in 04-05. If they weren't, the season wouldn't have ended up being cancelled. They're not innocent bystanders here. They brought a gun to the showdown at high noon too.

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11-10-2012, 06:21 PM
  #995
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Explain why the make whole thing wouldn't work. Is that the the main reason there isn't a deal yet? As I understood it the make whole thing would give the players their lost 7 % money back on roll back contracts.

Or did I fail to understand?

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11-10-2012, 11:30 PM
  #996
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Murdered is about the last word you could use for that. Because A) the players were still getting millions to play hockey, and B) the players ended up with more financial and contractual security than they know what to do with, because they didn't get completely screwed. So much so that they want at least the same deal, and Fehr wants more.

The PA was as willing to go just as far as the owners did in 04-05. If they weren't, the season wouldn't have ended up being cancelled. They're not innocent bystanders here. They brought a gun to the showdown at high noon too.
The players earned their millions by doing something that nobody else can do. Not only through talent but through marketability that is forced upon them. The owners signed the contract. That is the end of the story.

The players had to go to war. They were faced with demands that had never been seen in history of CBA negotiations. Now the owners are at it again.

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11-11-2012, 03:44 AM
  #997
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If I was an Owner I would pull out of Hockey, It's the biggest joke Of the major sports.

I mean EPL and MLS are catching the NHL in America. That is sad, Soccer ? really ? One of those leagues is not even in America.

There is simply no money to be made in Hockey. Especially with all these labor stops(both sides fault).

I mean really , does anyone care (casual person) hockey is not being played right now ?

My friends sure didn't notice, there response was "O that league is going to lose another season ?"

But even those friends can name me the captain of Manchester United. They don't even know who Sidney Crosby is.


Hockey is a joke, These labor stops are not helping. And most importantly casual sports people, really don't care.

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11-11-2012, 10:09 AM
  #998
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The players earned their millions by doing something that nobody else can do. Not only through talent but through marketability that is forced upon them. The owners signed the contract. That is the end of the story.

The players had to go to war. They were faced with demands that had never been seen in history of CBA negotiations. Now the owners are at it again.
This is not true at all. There's a new generation of players in minor leagues right now.

If current negotiations explode and there is no 12-13 season or even 13-14, just bring in new NHL players. I've watched some OHL on NHLn - pretty good hockey I'd say.

Players were making $2.45m in guaranteed salaries - both BETTER than their NFL counterparts. The NHLPA saw a need to go to war over that?

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11-11-2012, 10:11 AM
  #999
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Butch you need to go on the Biz of Hockey board and debate with " Fehr Time".

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11-11-2012, 11:29 AM
  #1000
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If I was an Owner I would pull out of Hockey, It's the biggest joke Of the major sports.

I mean EPL and MLS are catching the NHL in America. That is sad, Soccer ? really ? One of those leagues is not even in America.

There is simply no money to be made in Hockey. Especially with all these labor stops(both sides fault).

I mean really , does anyone care (casual person) hockey is not being played right now ?

My friends sure didn't notice, there response was "O that league is going to lose another season ?"

But even those friends can name me the captain of Manchester United. They don't even know who Sidney Crosby is.


Hockey is a joke, These labor stops are not helping. And most importantly casual sports people, really don't care.
I don't think what is going on in the NHL at this moment has anything to do with the current lockout, but I think AEG executives can recognize a bubble when they see one. The value of NHL franchises may be a good example. I think it would be foolish for someone to buy one at today's prices with a better than 50/50 chance that your franchise will not generate an operating profit.


Last edited by Live in the Now: 11-11-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: meh
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